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  1. #11

    Re:A lesson well learned.....

    Five years in eve and he is still a victim of can flipping? That is normally only a problem for new players solo mining.

    This guy is pathetic.

    I was an industry director for a large alliance that started out in empire but later carved out a little piece of 0.0. If anyone of the guys/gals in my corp came to me with this attitude they would have been out the door in a heartbeat.

  2. #12

    Re:A lesson well learned.....

    The intent of the OP is draw attention to the need for consequences for your actions in a PVP environment. I applaud that intent. I too would like to see a system that allows free action AND consequences for offensive activity. Here is to hoping this game will be it...

    I do however feel a need to point out that the primary argument used here assumes the act of can flipping is "illegal". In fact it is not considered so by the game mechanics. I do not feel it should be.

    For those not familiar:
    http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Jet_Can

    In short; it has become common for miners to jettison ore in space when their relatively small cargo space has filled. This creates a large container that anyone can have access to. If another player removes anything from this container, they are flagged and can be legally attacked without reprocussion from NPC authority.
    This mechanic allows the griefer to gode, or sucker miners into attacking the can flipper who is then allowed to defend, usually ending poorly for the miner.

    Two things to take note of here:

    1. Jettisoned canisters are not intended for miner storage, it is simply a risky way of mining a large amount and coming back with a hauler to get it to the station. Saving the player form multiple trips per mining session. Game mechanics provide several alternatives.

    2. The miner is safe until they actually fire on the can flipper. The ore jettisoned into space is all that is at risk.

    This is a much debated topic. I expect many will disagree with my statements. Take from this what you will.

    Having said all that... I do believe the devs here can learn from the mistakes made by CCP. IMO, This is an example of game mechanics that most players do not comprehend, resulting in frustrated players.

  3. #13

    Re:A lesson well learned.....

    you cannot avoid this. in a sandbox game you have many "small" actions that are simple and easy to understand. once they are combined/chained you gain in complexity, and this is what allows the freedom of the "sandbox".

    Imagine you may choose between A, B or C (actions with the environment/an item, or an interaction with another player). When you combine those elementary actions you can have AB or BA or ACCBA or ABCCBABCAC or whatever. Those strings can get extremely complex. The "sandbox" must allow for these to be done, otherwise it is not a sandbox anymore.

    Players who cannot grasp the slight difference between AABAA and AABBA simply need to sit back and learn/explore more. If it was easy and simple like WoW you just need to click on the same icon 100 times and that's all.

    So, if you have freedom you have complexity and thus all those situations.

  4. #14

    Re:A lesson well learned.....

    prokop15 wrote:
    pid73 wrote:
    you cannot avoid this. in a sandbox game you have many "small" actions that are simple and easy to understand. once they are combined/chained you gain in complexity, and this is what allows the freedom of the "sandbox".

    Imagine you may choose between A, B or C (actions with the environment/an item, or an interaction with another player). When you combine those elementary actions you can have AB or BA or ACCBA or ABCCBABCAC or whatever. Those strings can get extremely complex. The "sandbox" must allow for these to be done, otherwise it is not a sandbox anymore.

    Players who cannot grasp the slight difference between AABAA and AABBA simply need to sit back and learn/explore more. If it was easy and simple like WoW you just need to click on the same icon 100 times and that's all.

    So, if you have freedom you have complexity and thus all those situations.
    Worst analogy ever.
    if you don't know what you are talking about better don't talk at all.

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