PvP and food for thought

[JCatano]

sicarius -

You must not have played DF at launch.

- Could not long into human area because it was so crowded

- Invisible mobs for a week.

- People exploiting the invisible mobs for massive gains and gold, since they wouldn't attack back.

- Major desync issues for a few weeks.

- Queue lines to get ingame that would last 1-4 hours.

Hopefully, Xsyon launch is much smoother.

[Sabina]

Oh how I remember those queues to get into DF!! :S

[kdalts]

Always an emotive topic...

A couple of points ..

1/ No Pain no gain: For me, PvP in games like WoW, Aion etc.. where PvP is just die and then come back offers no sense of risk or creates little addrenalum... because you don't loose anything.

Take EVE. In EVE, if you die you potentially loose most of your gear and your ship is destroyed...sometimes you are podkilled too... so you loose some skills/experience too - a little insurance helps to replace it but all in all it hurts in both time and cost. This can be painfull as ships can be expensive and your gear could be rare - and the adren rush is high! Basically, this ensures that you and your attacker are more cautious and therefore consider the PvP tactics more closely before you attack... doesn't totally discourage ganking but helps to ensure players don't just start a fight because they are bored or because they want to be irritating. Certainly removes corpse ganking because you spawn back at a base and have to somehow find a way to get back to the place of your death... often too far to bother and knowing your stuff will have been looted anyway.

2/ PvP is not about the better players winning... it's more often players that have more time to play the game and therefore have the better gear - usually the yongsters because they play 24x7. So you get 12 year old's ganking and greifing because, for them, it's fun. For the more serious gamer interested in total immersion into the game this is just an irritation. The question is, how do you balance this...

Unprovoked attacks should carry a penalty (EVE) where the attackers rep is affected. Once that rep hits a certain point he/she is flagged as a criminal for both other players and NPC's. Some players thrive in this environment... others will avoid them but at least you have a choice and you can better avoid being ganked whilst at the same time the 'criminals' have to balance the game in a differnt way - ie: if I can't go to certain regions because I pissed everyone off.. I am denied certain resources or access to settlements etc.. I made my choice now I have to live with it.

If we want to create a more realistic environment you can't avoid PVP or create zones where PvP is not allowed... just make it harder or carry some consequenses...

Just my opinion after 5 years in both EVE and WoW... looking for a balance.

[EmyLightsaber]

Some food for thought on what I've seen in this topic:

Due to the eventual release having only 1 character per account, what is there to stop someone from killing and griefing new/ old players, getting a negative rep, then deleting and making a new character?

Surely some people wouldn't think twice at doing something like this.

The only downside to deleting and making another character is any time put into that character.

I therefore put forward a suggestion, perhaps that rep would be tied to your account, or that there would be a timer like EVE currently has for it's characters.

On another note, I would hope the anti-cheating code is solid, otherwise we might have other problems to that effect.

[zephar123]

EmyLightsaber wrote:

Some food for thought on what I've seen in this topic:

Due to the eventual release having only 1 character per account, what is there to stop someone from killing and griefing new/ old players, getting a negative rep, then deleting and making a new character?

Surely some people wouldn't think twice at doing something like this.

The only downside to deleting and making another character is any time put into that character.

I therefore put forward a suggestion, perhaps that rep would be tied to your account, or that there would be a timer like EVE currently has for it's characters.

On another note, I would hope the anti-cheating code is solid, otherwise we might have other problems to that effect.

100% agree with this

[EmyLightsaber]

prokop15 wrote:

Christ, are you trolling?

If for some fuckin' reason someone is repeatedly remaking their character just to grief you then you definitely deserve it.

This is why this community will eventually fail.

[zephar123]

EmyLightsaber wrote:

prokop15 wrote:

Christ, are you trolling?

If for some fuckin' reason someone is repeatedly remaking their character just to grief you then you definitely deserve it.

This is why this community will eventually fail.

Depends, if game develops rules similar to eve it will be fine. People that cuase issues will move on to other pastures.

[Jadzia]

zephar123 wrote:

EmyLightsaber wrote:

prokop15 wrote:

Christ, are you trolling?

If for some fuckin' reason someone is repeatedly remaking their character just to grief you then you definitely deserve it.

This is why this community will eventually fail.

Depends, if game develops rules similar to eve it will be fine. People that cuase issues will move on to other pastures.

Exactly.

[Shrimps]

prokop15 wrote:

I agree, this game will be placed on a fine balance. If the fulcrum that is the mechanic to prevent people from constantly rerolling in order to grief non-factor nancys isn't done JUST RIGHT... then the game will surely fail.

Quoted above is the aforementioned 12 year old.

A large difference from EVE is that in EVE your equipment and character skill are everything, and without them you are useless.

Player skill has very little impact in most battles and only comes into play by equally matched players of similar skill/ships.

When you look at the mechanics of the game you'll see there are already some type of safe zones.

Tribe cities will be reletivley safe after prelude if they are walled in, since I've seen no skills thus far that would allow you to jump over walls or gates, it would take a large concentrated force to get into the city.

And since this game seems to be more tribe vs tribe oriented and less about random raiding, I sincerely doubt that a group of 3 players will be able to bypass the walls with any regularity.

So it would be safe to assume that cities would only be targetted by large forces from warring tribes, and not bandit raider types.

The most danger around a city would likely be from people hiding just outside the city and waiting for people to leave before attacking.

[Cunk]

I knew a guy in EVE who used to take out battleships in a Rifter. You're right in general that EVE relies mainly on stats but I've seen plenty of examples where skill (or at least intimate knowledge of EVE's mechanics) can give you significant advantages.

Also, being able to keep cool and think clearly is a major factor. That was something I never accomplished. Every time I got jumped at a gate I'd panic and make dumb mistakes that cost me many ships.

Not sure what I'm saying. I'm not really contradicting you or anything.