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  1. #1

    Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    I'm very disappointed with masonry. Being that I am a mason myself time to time in the real world, I feel like you can't do enough in this game. A mason ingame pretty much grinds 24/7. The only available crafts that he has I believe are bricks and mortars which he doesn't even personally use. The architect not only "plans" structures, but he also creates em?

    New Masonry Features

    1) Masonry should be the only skill craft that can pave paths/roads. Would be nice to something for once without standing in one spot, grinding.

    2) Making a pavement should require resources that are only made by masons.

    3) Introduce new types of pavements. Some pavements will make you move faster than others but they will require more resources.

    4) Making a pavement will no longer require a shovel. In the real world, after you flatten the area, there is no reason for a shovel.

    5) Bricks should only be stacked on ground when in stacks of 10-12s. Sort of lame how you must put all bricks inside of bags and baskets, cuts the realism.

    6) New item, the mixing tub. Masons should start out with a mixing tub instead of a pack like everyone else. A mixing tub should be the only container that is able to carry mortar. Toolcrafters should be able to create mixing tubs.

    Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    In my own opinion, architects should be the only ones who can make plans. However, they shouldn't be the ones who "build" structures. Instead, they should get skills by making plans, not finishing them. A mason, should be the only one who could "build" a structure which requires masonry resources.

    As for the rest of Architect's plans, they should be built by the profession that has the resources to make that structure. For example, the woodcrafter should build structures which are made out of wood. In addition, the woodcrafter skill should be renamed to carpentry. No reason to have all skills be called blankcraft.

    Architects should be required to plan structures and then they should go gather resources. They are not builders, they are planners. Part of being a mason and a carpenter, is actually "doing" your job. Otherwise, they shouldn't be considered a mason or a "woodcrafter". Without an architect being on at all times, it's pointless to play as a support craft. Especially since an architect has to personally tell you how much of the resources you need to make for each plan, as well as him being there so he can finish it.

    New Architect Features

    1) New tools, writing utensils. Architects would start with either a pencil or pen.

    2) New item, paper. This will be required for all plans.

    3) Depending on the plan, will depend on the type and quantity of paper and writing utensils.

    4) Pencils should be crafted by woodcrafters.

    5) Pens should be created by toolcrafters. Tar could be used for the ink.

    6) New resource, lead.

    7) Paper should be created by architects.

    Added to official list ~KiwiBird
    "Corruption is nature's way of restoring our faith in democracy."
    - Peter Ustinov

  2. #2

    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    I agree that Masons need a little more to do.
    As for your ideas about Architecture, I would have to disagree. Why would you take abilities away from a craft that already has only one use. Also, if the skill gain was from planing I could just spam plans and then tear them down to grind out skill.

    I think that Masons should be given the ability to make Stone bridges and Woodcrafters, Wooden bridges. These structures should be allowed to be built outside of tribal territory and should have public permissions set to them. They should not have a destroy option so no one can simply destroy them. They should have to be attacked to be destroyed and they should have a decay. And only Masons or Woodcrafters should be able to repair their respective bridges.

    If not, the mason craft skill should just be merged with architect. As it does not have enough content and Architect can't do much in the way of producing any of the materials needed for their craft.

  3. #3

    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    There's one problem with having architects get skills for "planning" projects. What's to stop an architect from throwing up 100's of ghost structures and raising his skill quickly like that?

    Overall, I liked your post. But there's one thing you gotta remember.. this is still just a game. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for realism. The simple truth is if a game is too real it simply just won't work.

    I like the idea of masons being the only ones able to build roads with different types of pavement. Some pavements might make it "easier" to walk on than others. I do like how you mentioned only masons could be able to make these components, but what if carpenters/woodcrafters could fashion the materials for a wooden path, but masons are the ones who actually put it all together?

    I've got a twist on your idea of architects only being able to build structures that contained components he/she made themselves. Many recipes in architecture require components made from several crafts. What if, as long as you were able to set permissions for the right people, any craft that was required to make one of the components was able to "complete" the project? For example, say we're building a "Wall of Awesomeness" that requires "Wooden Slats" from Carpentry/Woodcrafting and "Mortar" from Masonry. If the architect who puts down the ghost structure sets permissions for "Bob" the mason and "Harry" the carpenter to add to/complete the project (he would need to also be able to set separate permissions to move the structure), any of the three (Bob, Harry, or the original architect) could be the ones to "complete" the project as long as all the components were in place. I believe the architect would need to get the biggest skill gain, and the other people involved would gain a smaller amount of skill contingent upon how much they contributed (this is because adding resources to a project wouldn't be the main focus of their craft... the actual act of making the components would be the biggest skill gain for them).

    I kinda rambled on there, but you get what I'm saying hopefully. What do you think?

  4. #4

    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    Tybalt wrote:
    I agree that Masons need a little more to do.
    As for your ideas about Architecture, I would have to disagree. Why would you take abilities away from a craft that already has only one use. Also, if the skill gain was from planing I could just spam plans and then tear them down to grind out skill.
    Maybe architects would require paper and writing utensil to make a plan for each structure. That way, you wouldn't be able to spam plans.

    Tybalt wrote:
    I think that Masons should be given the ability to make Stone bridges and Woodcrafters, Wooden bridges. These structures should be allowed to be built outside of tribal territory and should have public permissions set to them. They should not have a destroy option so no one can simply destroy them. They should have to be attacked to be destroyed and they should have a decay. And only Masons or Woodcrafters should be able to repair their respective bridges.
    Architects should be the ones who make plans for bridges, but I definitely like the idea of only masons and woodcafters being the only ones who could only repair bridges, along with other structures.

    Tybalt wrote:
    If not, the mason craft skill should just be merged with architect. As it does not have enough content and Architect can't do much in the way of producing any of the materials needed for their craft.
    That I don't agree with. Architects are much different than masons and woodcrafters. If that were the case, architects would be the best craft in the game.
    "Corruption is nature's way of restoring our faith in democracy."
    - Peter Ustinov

  5. #5

    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    travdoty wrote:
    I do like how you mentioned only masons could be able to make these components, but what if carpenters/woodcrafters could fashion the materials for a wooden path, but masons are the ones who actually put it all together?
    If woodcrafters are able to do that in the game, then they should be also be pavers. However, masons should have the best pavements in the game making woodcrafters be low quality pavers.

    travdoty wrote:
    I've got a twist on your idea of architects only being able to build structures that contained components he/she made themselves. Many recipes in architecture require components made from several crafts. What if, as long as you were able to set permissions for the right people, any craft that was required to make one of the components was able to "complete" the project? For example, say we're building a "Wall of Awesomeness" that requires "Wooden Slats" from Carpentry/Woodcrafting and "Mortar" from Masonry. If the architect who puts down the ghost structure sets permissions for "Bob" the mason and "Harry" the carpenter to add to/complete the project (he would need to also be able to set separate permissions to move the structure), any of the three (Bob, Harry, or the original architect) could be the ones to "complete" the project as long as all the components were in place. I believe the architect would need to get the biggest skill gain, and the other people involved would gain a smaller amount of skill contingent upon how much they contributed (this is because adding resources to a project wouldn't be the main focus of their craft... the actual act of making the components would be the biggest skill gain for them).

    I kinda rambled on there, but you get what I'm saying hopefully. What do you think?
    I don't like it so much. Architects should not build but plan. I've updated the original post about how to make plans less spamable. Help me out if you don't like the direction I'm going with this.
    "Corruption is nature's way of restoring our faith in democracy."
    - Peter Ustinov

  6. #6
    Xsyon Citizen VeryWiiTee's Avatar
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    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    Woodcrafter will be making furniture in the future, so it is out of the question giving that craft even more power.
    I can somewhat agree that masonry probably is a bad name, but I think sculptures and decoration for the city, as well as stonewalls, posts etc should be their job, not actual stone buildings.

    The only thing an architect can is make plans and erect buildings, everything else is provided by other crafts and as stated masonry is a secondary craft at the moment , but I think you can expect to see buildings in that as well..?

  7. #7

    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    VeryWiiTee wrote:
    Woodcrafter will be making furniture in the future, so it is out of the question giving that craft even more power.
    I can somewhat agree that masonry probably is a bad name, but I think sculptures and decoration for the city, as well as stonewalls, posts etc should be their job, not actual stone buildings.
    In order to make a house, you need an architect. So how would this overpower woodcrafters? If you have no house, then there is no reason to have furniture. Also, both stone walls and buildings require plans before they can be built in real life. Should be the same ingame.

    VeryWiiTee wrote:
    The only thing an architect can is make plans and erect buildings, everything else is provided by other crafts and as stated masonry is a secondary craft at the moment , but I think you can expect to see buildings in that as well..?
    You're right about the architect, but it's still unexplainable how he actually builds the buildings when he's a planner. At the moment, masonry could be considered a secondary, but it actually is a primary. Just sharing some thoughts to hopefully bring this profession into the game.
    "Corruption is nature's way of restoring our faith in democracy."
    - Peter Ustinov

  8. #8
    Xsyon Citizen VeryWiiTee's Avatar
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    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    Well woodcrafter already make parts for toolcrafters and weaponcrafters, you can start expect furniture with the coming patches (since it is actually usuable now :P) so they will at some point be balanced with other crafts that makes material parts as well as finished products.

    Architect can, for the time being, only make finished products.

    Masonry can for the time being, only make material parts, ((could make finished products such as decoration for the city (fountains, statues etc).)) I don't think it is the case that they will make decoration, but it is a way to solve the building problem.


    That's the only way I can justify the crafts as they are in game and why architects shouldn't be planners only.
    - And yeah it does remove the reality perspective I'm aware of that :|

  9. #9

    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    So far, what I have experienced in this game, is that an architect is the best profession in the game. Architects make every other craft become his bitch and all he does is sit back in his base planning (which is easy). He doesn't even go out to get resources most of the time.

    With my suggestion, an architect would need resources to make plans, making them get out of base. It will also make planning more difficult. In addition, if they couldn't "build" their structures, other crafts would actually be useful. While it's true that without other crafts, architects would become useless, it doesn't give them the right to make other crafts become his own personal bitch, basically doing all of the grinding for him.

    In the real world, a mason doesn't build blocks than hands it over to an architect to do their job. Part of being a mason and a carpenter, is actually "doing" your job. Otherwise, they shouldn't be considered a mason or a "woodcrafter".
    "Corruption is nature's way of restoring our faith in democracy."
    - Peter Ustinov

  10. #10
    Xsyon Citizen Venciera's Avatar
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    Re:Improve Masonry/Architect Fix/Woodcraft Rename

    Right now our tribal chief is an architect and its a full time job for him. I don't know if your issue is that they don't do enough skill grinding, or they don't move enough mats, but I do appreciate a good settlement designer.

    I do believe the original plan was to allow all tribal members to help add to, and assemble structures. So this whole discussion might be moot.
    <--- see my avatar? I drew that! yay me


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