Hiding and Stealing is horrible!

[trenixdecease]

Hmm really ? Where have you heard about it ? On home page or feature page or the FAQ page ? Or perhaps Jordi or Virtus posted about it ?

I guess it will be added one day, but I haven't heard any official word about it. So calling it a big aspect doesn't seem appropriate.

Oh, you're right. We should all hold hands in harmony. Give me one good reason why it isn't appropriate.

Im not sure why you believe its a big aspect, plus we are not talking about stealing from tents, or bodies after you knock them out. We are talking about picking a pocket or something to that effect.

Im all for looting, and picking up items off the ground, but I dont like is UO style stealing, or in DDO where you can walk up and grab something from someone's bag.

Tough luck, that's a thief. If he has the skill, let him get your item. It's up to you to catch him just in case he does steal from you. This is a survival game, part of it should test your security since its a big element in surviving.

[Jadzia]

Oh, you're right. We should all hold hands in harmony. and remove evil tribes because stealing is evil.

Seems you didn't understand my post. I didn't qualify stealing in any way...I said you shouldn't call it a big aspect since we have no clue when and how it will be added to the game, if ever. Big aspects of the game are posted on the Feature page.

[trenixdecease]

Seems you didn't understand my post. I didn't qualify stealing in any way...I said you shouldn't call it a big aspect since we have no clue when and how it will be added to the game, if ever. Big aspects of the game are posted on the Feature page.

I'm pretty sure it will be released one way or another, or at least should be released. We're not fully aware of many things in the game and there are after all alignments. Stealing is definitely something that is evil and it should be used accordingly. In addition, it challenges your security as an apocalypse should.

The full features of the Xsyon online game world will never be fully disclosed. Part of the fun in playing is discovering the unknown. New features, skills, objects and creatures will typically be discovered in game before they are officially announced.

[MrDDT]

Tough luck, that's a thief. If he has the skill, let him get your item. It's up to you to catch him just in case he does steal from you. This is a survival game, part of it should test your security since its a big element in surviving.

Ok tell you what, if you can make a game where I can feel you stealing from my bags, I will be more than happy to allow it in game. Until then you cant balance it, so there is no real point. Just as hiding now they disappear in front of you like a wizard or something. Its not balanced.

Next after stealing in game, I should be able to lop off your arm once I do catch you trying to steal from me.
There are reasons things are left out of games even if its real or not. Perma death, or dismemberment should stay out of games, as should instant inviso stealth, and stealing. Right along there is going to the bathroom.

[trenixdecease]

Ok tell you what, if you can make a game where I can feel you stealing from my bags, I will be more than happy to allow it in game. Until then you cant balance it, so there is no real point. Just as hiding now they disappear in front of you like a wizard or something. Its not balanced.

If stealing is a skill and it takes some time to be used affectively, that would be enough for it to be balanced. Just because stealing would make you upset, that is not a good enough reason to not have it. Xsyon explained why people "disappear like wizards". The reality is people are complaining because yes, stealing is annoying. However, the game's setting is in a hostile environment. When all points fail, there is no need to speak for realism. Even if so, realistically a thief would steal from you without you even knowing.

Next after stealing in game, I should be able to lop off your arm once I do catch you trying to steal from me.
There are reasons things are left out of games even if its real or not. Perma death, or dismemberment should stay out of games, as should instant inviso stealth, and stealing. Right along there is going to the bathroom.

Just because someone is a thief, that doesn't give you the right to have game breaking abilities. If they screw up, make it so they are revealed for a few minutes. This game is rated M, I'm sure you can handle a stolen item.

[MrDDT]

If stealing is a skill and it takes some time to be used affectively, that would be enough for it to be balanced. Just because stealing would make you upset, that is not a good enough reason to not have it. Xsyon explained why people "disappear like wizards". The reality is people are complaining because yes, stealing is annoying. However, the game's setting is in a hostile environment. When all points fail, there is no need to speak for realism. Even if so, realistically a thief would steal from you without you even knowing.

My points didnt fail, you said if I catch a theif. Well when I do catch them I should beable to lop off an arm. Also where is wrestling? or the fact that I can grab your arm and you cant get away? Why shouldnt there be stealing? Because you cant balance it. I dont agree with the fact that something hostile environment should meant putting in systems that break the fun of the game due to imbalances. Many items are real that shouldnt be put into the game. Heck look at the running, I know darn well I can run for a lot longer than 15mins (which here would be 2hours on a road). But because of a balancing issues you have to change it. You say a thief would steal from me without me even knowing it. Well they would have to be a darn good thief, and I dont believe you. Ive seen slight of hand and they pick targets that are weak, and areas where they can do it. There are tactics to steal from people but its because of the world we live in now they can do it (like the bump and run). Out in the middle of no where, someone trying to take something off your person would be very very hard. Now if they were sleeping or something I could get that. But like Stealing, Sleeping isnt in this game.

Just because someone is a thief, that doesn't give you the right to have game breaking abilities. If they screw up, make it so they are revealed for a few minutes. This game is rated M, I'm sure you can handle a stolen item.

So loping off an arm is game breaking but stealing from me isnt? Sounds like you cant handle the punishment of stealing, but you are all about the rewards. Maybe we should put rape in the game too. I mean its a harsh world, and its Rated M.

Also can you please post the link about wizard hiding from Jordi? I cant seem to find it.

[trenixdecease]

My points didnt fail, you said if I catch a theif. Well when I do catch them I should beable to lop off an arm. Also where is wrestling? or the fact that I can grab your arm and you cant get away? Why shouldnt there be stealing? Because you cant balance it. I dont agree with the fact that something hostile environment should meant putting in systems that break the fun of the game due to imbalances.

How is stealing imbalanced? If you want to take back your stolen item, then steal it back or kill him for it. What is this nonsenses about grabbing or cutting off someone's arm like you're in some movie or something?

You say a thief would steal from me without me even knowing it. Well they would have to be a darn good thief, and I dont believe you. Ive seen slight of hand and they pick targets that are weak, and areas where they can do it. There are tactics to steal from people but its because of the world we live in now they can do it (like the bump and run). Out in the middle of no where, someone trying to take something off your person would be very very hard. Now if they were sleeping or something I could get that. But like Stealing, Sleeping isnt in this game.

Bump and run isn't always the case, thieves would love for you to think that. In today's society, stealing is done in large groups, but not always. Most do it the way you mentioned it because it's simple to do and simple to walk away from. It's pretty much for amateurs. However, I've seen people sneak up behind someone and just pull a wallet out of their back pocket without even having the person notice it. I even had my uncle lose a wallet because someone cut a hole in his pocket without even having the slightest idea. There are so many ways to steal without noticing it, just like hiding it's designed so players won't metagame.

So loping off an arm is game breaking but stealing from me isnt? Sounds like you cant handle the punishment of stealing, but you are all about the rewards. Maybe we should put rape in the game too. I mean its a harsh world, and its Rated M.

Stealing should be a part of the realism in the game that won't really affect the game's overall experience, besides enhancing it. You're saying that stealing will break the game, but lopping off an arm isn't? The fact that I steal maybe a fish or a piece of metal, that gives you the right to cripple my character to make him be utterly worthless; forever? Also, rape wont give you anything in a game like this, I'm not asking for pure realism, I'm just asking for stealing since it's not as game breaking as you think it is. Like mentioned before, you're insecure and you're blowing things out of proportion because of it. God forbid you have to get another piece of cloth because someone stole it from you. The way I see it, tools should not be able to be stolen, nor should items that are worn by the character, the rest should be stored or it might get stolen.

Also can you please post the link about wizard hiding from Jordi? I cant seem to find it.

Hiding needs some fixes, but the idea is that it should be based on both character skill and the actual player's skill and choices.

Hiding is highly dependant on the other player's perception. In general a player should only go partially invisible. This should allow a player to blend in better in the dark or when wearing armor that matches the surroundings.

A few things need to be fixed: Combat and actions are supposed to reveal the hidden character, and characters moving while hidden should be more visible.

The reason hiding makes you less visible is because this is a 3rd person game. We can't rely on the player being in 1st person view. I don't plan to ever make Xsyon an exclusively 1st person view game.

[Jadzia]

I don't see how a pickpocket-type stealing could work in this game. To steal from someone you have to be close to him, and stealing will make you become an evil player. So where can you steal ? You walk into another tribe's village while you are evil ? You'll be killed on sight, no chance to steal. Or you walk up to someone who is out in the wilderness ? You are an evil player, he won't let you come close. Stealing only makes sense if the attacked player can't figure out instantly who pickpocket-ed him. In a low population game like Xsyon, without spots where mass amount of players gather together its kinda impossible.

[trenixdecease]

I don't see how a pickpocket-type stealing could work in this game. To steal from someone you have to be close to him, and stealing will make you become an evil player. So where can you steal ? You walk into another tribe's village while you are evil ? You'll be killed on sight, no chance to steal. Or you walk up to someone who is out in the wilderness ? You are an evil player, he won't let you come close. Stealing only makes sense if the attacked player can't figure out instantly who pickpocket-ed him. In a low population game like Xsyon, without spots where mass amount of players gather together its kinda impossible.

I was also thinking that stealing should be not only be from players, but from containers as well. So like in Wurm Online, you should lock up what is valuable to you. Don't forget, hiding is implemented in the game already so you'd easily be able to get up close to people even if you are evil. While the population is low, this is after all beta.

[MrDDT]

How is stealing imbalanced? If you want to take back your stolen item, then steal it back or kill him for it. What is this nonsenses about grabbing or cutting off someone's arm like you're in some movie or something?



Bump and run isn't always the case, thieves would love for you to think that. In today's society, stealing is done in large groups, but not always. Most do it the way you mentioned it because it's simple to do and simple to walk away from. It's pretty much for amateurs. However, I've seen people sneak up behind someone and just pull a wallet out of their back pocket without even having the person notice it. I even had my uncle lose a wallet because someone cut a hole in his pocket without even having the slightest idea. There are so many ways to steal without noticing it, just like hiding it's designed so players won't metagame.



Stealing should be a part of the realism in the game that won't really affect the game's overall experience, besides enhancing it. You're saying that stealing will break the game, but lopping off an arm isn't? The fact that I steal maybe a fish or a piece of metal, that gives you the right to cripple my character to make him be utterly worthless; forever? Also, rape wont give you anything in a game like this, I'm not asking for pure realism, I'm just asking for stealing since it's not as game breaking as you think it is. Like mentioned before, you're insecure and you're blowing things out of proportion because of it. God forbid you have to get another piece of cloth because someone stole it from you. The way I see it, tools should not be able to be stolen, nor should items that are worn by the character, the rest should be stored or it might get stolen.

Stealing in other games didnt work, I dont see how it will work here.

About bump and run, well that is 1 tactic. The others you talked about wont work in real life because look how many people are in game and around your toon. If you had someone even remotely near you to steal you would wonder wth is that guy doing near my back or arse?

You say stealing should be part of it the realism and Im saying it shouldnt be. With stealing NOT in the game, it does not hurt the game much at all if any, with it in game it can and adds very little.

You say I can kill you or steal it back, well you can kill me if you want an item. Better yet, war my tribe and rack it for the items you want.

Resorting to personal attacks about me being insecure shows me that you are more about getting what you want, and less about what should or shouldnt be in a game.

What I find funny is that you say that tools shouldnt be able to be stolen which really doesnt make sense to me. So you can steal a fish from someones pack, but not a screwdriver? Where is the realism in that?

About hiding, no where in that post by Xsyon did I see that it has wizard like invisible nor does he say he wants that. Fact he says the other way around.

He talks about partly invisible, and blending. NOWHERE does it say POOF disappears.