Another long rant from the rantmaster

[joexxxz]

@mrcalhou.
Why in the world would u want to have a NPC quests in this game?
Xsyon said specifically. THIS GAME HAVE NO NPCS !!!!!!!!!!!

This game is for total player economy.!!!!

[Jadzia]

@mrcalhou.
Why in the world would u want to have a NPC quests in this game?
Xsyon said specifically. THIS GAME HAVE NO NPCS !!!!!!!!!!!

This game is for total player economy.!!!!

NPC quests have nothing to do with game economy. A quest reward is not necessarily an item or money, it can be skill point, a new recipe, learning a new skill or whatever.

[VeryWiiTee]

Well, he might not have the best argument, but he is right Jadzia.
- For those who yet haven't -and it sounds like A LOT of people, read the FAQ- About and Feature list on the official webpage, should head over and either read it more thoroughly or actually read it for the first time I think. A lot of these 'things' you are missing, have already been announced to be incoming, it takes time to code. Just try to make a simple website through oh let's cut you some slack and say Microsoft Office Frontpage (as it fills out a lot of the coding.) but only through coding not drag and drop.

So to me its like, I install the game then log in, make a toon using stats I have no idea how they will effect me.

... Did you ever consider to open your manual and read how they affected you? Jesus ...... It was my first reaction when I saw that I needed to choose my attributes.

I have to disagree a bit with you Revh, weapons do differ now, both in damage and swing time.
The rest is coming a long as the game is coming a long.

If people cannot figure out what to do in a sandbox, which is to create your own little world in a virtual world. Then they ought to go back to their theme park world and play in a linear progression.
If you do not lack imagination it won't take you long to have fun - but as stated it requires friends as this is a social game not a "Single Player MMO" (so start making them ?)

Edit:
Oh that sounded incredibly annoyed.. I gotta stop that.

[MrDDT]

... Did you ever consider to open your manual and read how they affected you? Jesus ...... It was my first reaction when I saw that I needed to choose my attributes.

Sure did, can you please tell me the effect that STR has in combat? Or with axes? or with a blade? or with any other skill? All I see is that it has some effect but not how much at all or anything. Even after playing I still dont even know the effects of these. These stats you are stuck with for a long time (right now they dont even change at all). So making a choice at the start of the game on stats that you have no idea how they will effect you or your real play style yet is pretty major.

It would be like picking a class and you know nothing about. You can pick A B C or D. Based on which one you pick, you will be stuck with them for a long long time in the game. We dont know what effect any of them really have on you, but they will have effects some how.

[REVKhA]

Well, he might not have the best argument, but he is right Jadzia.
- For those who yet haven't -and it sounds like A LOT of people, read the FAQ- About and Feature list on the official webpage, should head over and either read it more thoroughly or actually read it for the first time I think. A lot of these 'things' you are missing, have already been announced to be incoming, it takes time to code. Just try to make a simple website through oh let's cut you some slack and say Microsoft Office Frontpage (as it fills out a lot of the coding.) but only through coding not drag and drop.


... Did you ever consider to open your manual and read how they affected you? Jesus ...... It was my first reaction when I saw that I needed to choose my attributes.

I have to disagree a bit with you Revh, weapons do differ now, both in damage and swing time.
The rest is coming a long as the game is coming a long.

If people cannot figure out what to do in a sandbox, which is to create your own little world in a virtual world. Then they ought to go back to their theme park world and play in a linear progression.
If you do not lack imagination it won't take you long to have fun - but as stated it requires friends as this is a social game not a "Single Player MMO" (so start making them ?)

That's some mad bullcrap there ... information needs to be centered ingame not in some 3rd party .pdf . There is no excuse for that stuff missing the information should pop up (tooltip) ingame. Nough said.

[mrcalhou]

@mrcalhou.
Why in the world would u want to have a NPC quests in this game?
Xsyon said specifically. THIS GAME HAVE NO NPCS !!!!!!!!!!!

This game is for total player economy.!!!!

Sure, sounds good in theory. Hope that works in practice! Leave everything up to the player and then you get Face of Mankind. Total freaking flop. You should check it out. You might like it.

Now, Eve-Online on the other hand, is a very successful game. The player-base is actually increasing in that game. Can you believe it? An MMO where the player-base is increasing! Why? Because it works. The economy works and it's very, very player driven. It also has NPCs. Oh noes! What is this madness!? A real working sandbox with emergent gameplay that is created by player choices and the game also has NPCs too? Impossible! But wait, what's that? It isn't? Nope, not impossible. And unlike Darkfall, Mortal online, and Face of Mankind, it actually works really, really well. Sure those other games have great ideas but they all have critical flaws. Lack of content is one of the most prominent. The economies aren't good either.

As long as nothing is mandotory (Eve-Online is end-game the moment you leave the tutorial as far as I'm concerned), then I see no reason not to have story-lines, and quests/missions with different objectives, and God, especially the holy-grail of MMOs: A variety of different things to do.

[mrcalhou]

If people cannot figure out what to do in a sandbox, which is to create your own little world in a virtual world. Then they ought to go back to their theme park world and play in a linear progression.
If you do not lack imagination it won't take you long to have fun - but as stated it requires friends as this is a social game not a "Single Player MMO" (so start making them ?)

This is the great fallicy. Lack of content does not make a sandbox. Lack of content makes a dead game. It does not make a game a sandbox just because the players are thrown into the game with no direction or with no helping hand. Making a game user-unfriendly does not make a sandbox. Giving players things to do makes a sandbox. Giving players choices and options makes a sandbox. Helping players get acclimated to the controls and the basics doesn't make a game more of a sandbox, but it certainly is good desgin.

In his article for this week, Magic: The Gathering Lead Designer Mark Rosewater wrote: "Scott said the most valuable advice was one he got from Gleemax (yes the alien brain in a jar that runs R&D): "The goal of a game designer is not to outwit the players."" I think that this is a great way to look at things. There's nothing wrong with giving players tools, but it's better when you give them tools and show them how to use them.

[aliksteel]

Not sure, But we may be

[Foreseer]

mrcalhou: Really don't understand why Eve is being compared to this game at all. Really, space combat / ships / planets / ext. = hack slash / earth forming / ext.
Don't see the comparison; games are nothing alike. Eve is successful due to ship customization, to being a space game, and being an entirely original mmorpg. Xsyon won't be like eve it will be an entirely different genre imo.

Correct comparison's imo have been: Darkfall, UO, & Wurm. UO being the one I know best.

~~

Now, as far quest go. Ultima didn't have any real quest either tmk(Again; I only played 1998-2001 then F2P server's using UOR remake of those years before changes). You could at most: Escort NPC's to dungeons for money, or find Treasure Maps & Messages in the bottle. Which many players didn't bother to do. Although they were a sure fire way of income. Treasure maps & motb could be an interesting addition but don't see any real need.

Ultima online didn't however have an quest system players could manipulate as will be featured to present player maintained reward system. Don't know why people are speculating and complaining when you don't know how whether this will be fail. To me, it sounds great and will easily help get new players into the game.

Lack of Information: I agree there is a lack of information in regard to how stats effect individual skills, and combat. However don't see a need for it to be published in game as a #. It should be available in the manual, on the website, and with a general term stating this item is of greater or greatest quality.(FI: Ultima online items stated that they were crafted by a Grand Master or that they had a level of magical property.)

Mmm hopefully what i said has any relevancy.

[mrcalhou]

mrcalhou: Really don't understand why Eve is being compared to this game at all. Really, space combat / ships / planets / ext. = hack slash / earth forming / ext.
Don't see the comparison; games are nothing alike. Eve is successful due to ship customization, to being a space game, and being an entirely original mmorpg. Xsyon won't be like eve it will be an entirely different genre imo.

Correct comparison's imo have been: Darkfall, UO, & Wurm. UO being the one I know best.

~~

Now, as far quest go. Ultima didn't have any real quest either tmk(Again; I only played 1998-2001 then F2P server's using UOR remake of those years before changes). You could at most: Escort NPC's to dungeons for money, or find Treasure Maps & Messages in the bottle. Which many players didn't bother to do. Although they were a sure fire way of income. Treasure maps & motb could be an interesting addition but don't see any real need.

Ultima online didn't however have an quest system players could manipulate as will be featured to present player maintained reward system. Don't know why people are speculating and complaining when you don't know how whether this will be fail. To me, it sounds great and will easily help get new players into the game.

Lack of Information: I agree there is a lack of information in regard to how stats effect individual skills, and combat. However don't see a need for it to be published in game as a #. It should be available in the manual, on the website, and with a general term stating this item is of greater or greatest quality.(FI: Ultima online items stated that they were crafted by a Grand Master or that they had a level of magical property.)

Mmm hopefully what i said has any relevancy.

I compared this game to Eve because both games are player-driven sandboxes. The respective settings are irrelevant to any points that I have made. The only thing that is different enough to matter are the way combat and movement are handled, but that doesn't affect anything that I have been using as the basis of my arguements. It would certainly be a fallicy on my part to say that the setting doesn't have any impact on getting a player's interest, but in terms of what the design teams seem to want players to be able to do in the respective games, I would say that both games are really similar. That's why I was interested in this game. To me, it seemed like a twitch-based version of Eve-online: Player-driven crafting economy, territory conquest, emergent and mostly unscripted gameplay (I know this game has NO npc quests, but Eve's quests don't tie into a storyline, maybe just a small arc, though some of the writing made me go "WTF"). Whether I'm playing as a ship shooting cannons, or a human beating something with a fishing pole, it doesn't really matter. Different settings, same gameplay goals.