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  1. #1

    Territorial Control and Griefing.

    I'm concerned that the griefing policies are 'situational' and that banning is not necessarily going to be something that is deemed in violation of the TOS. ie. it will be a subjective decision.

    Primary to my concern is the concept of limted resources and territorial control.

    Scenario 1: My Giant JUnk Pile.
    - at launch my tribe gets its preferred spot...in the vicinity is a fairly glorious pile or three of junk. Our junk. Becaue of the relative scarcity of trash, and hte fact that it depletes, we decide this is our trash and our trash alone. All interlopers will be dealth with severely. We even post this in a tribe profile in the section below: Come into our self proclaimed area of influence and expect to me met with a high level of hostility.

    So in comes the pacificist crafter. we explain to him our territorial policy and advise him to leave. he gives us the bird and says he can do what he wants. We kill him. He comes back. We kill him again. He keeps coming back...eventually we kill him 20-30 times because he is just plain hard headed. Well, he reports us for griefing. Question: are we tagged as griefers and banned for merely enforcing a territorial claim?

    Scenario 2: I want your Junk.
    So we've depleted our giant junk pile...but alas, no fear, we've spotted another one. So our merry band tromps over there to start a harvestin. We are met with a chilly gaze and a carebear stare! Carebear stare counter: axe between the eyes. So, we go about scroungin'. Alas, our fearless defender and his band of noobs, keep coming at us, attempting to kick us off their junk. Of course we don't let them kick us off and we kill them. Quite a few times. Question: are we tagged as griefers and banned for 'invading' someone elses territory to take their trash?

    In both these scenarios, note that the person(s) dying, have a choice...they are choosing to walk into a scenario where they know they are going to meet hostile action and mostly die. What burden does the individual player have avoid being 'griefed'?

    thoughts/
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

  2. #2
    All fair.

    One can claim and cry to a Guide about griefing, but there is a key component to proving one's side:

    1) Keep a cool and clear mind when stating the facts of the present situation.

    If you are the killers of the interlopers and you act harshly towards both them and the guide as to proclaim your disgust on their seemingly stupid antics, you might actually hurt your cause. Keep in mind the guide may not see everything.

  3. #3
    Both scenarios are the same. You're just in a different position. In one you're defending in the other you're attacking.

  4. #4
    Unfortunatly it is up to a guide.

    When i presented my scenario to a guide, i was told that had it continued long enough, i would have been given a warning.

    The situation was a stubborn player, who just kept comming back to the junk pile i was protecting. His theory was, i didnt own shit, and that he had every right to use that junk pile (it was small so no sharing...either way...)

    So i kept killing him, he kept respawning on the pile and the process repeated untill the servers crashed.

    After seeing a guide post a griefing policy notice in global, i contacted them in private regarding it, laid it out clearly...as i had reason to kill...and was horrified at the response.

    Not sure if this is going to play out come launch, however im sure it will be tested fully when we all activly seek to limit and destroy hopi tribe.

    I am willing to be banned over this, as i think it is ridiculous. I can understand spawn camping a static rez point as griefing....but that doesnt exist in game.

    There is always a way out to griefing, that is my policy. You can always ask in chat for friends to assist you, run far away in ghost form and not return, attempt to bribe, plenty of ways out.

    The developer stated in my old thread concerning this that it was at the guides discresion and based on the situation, so i have hopes that the guides are tolerant of RP scenarios, KOS lists, and do not play favortism towards any possibly favord tribes (looking at you hopi).

    These limits will be tested as i think the players all deserve a baseline to go off of.

    My guess is, if a player cries enough and you dont give them reasonable escape chances, they are going to ban you eventually. I can understand in some rare situations where an insane amount of time and effort are devoted to repeatedly killing someone in a very short amount of time that could warrent a guide diffusing the situation, however i think a magical teleport to bumblefuck would be much better than a ban, as that would diffuse the situation enough to allow the victem to flee and possibly use his damn head and gather a protection force. There should be enough good aligned players out there who would be willing to grief the griefer.

    who knows, we will only find out when we test its limits on the hopi tribe, i expect a few of us will not be around much longer after that, as its rumored the tribe is favored...we expect to test both of these possibilities out.

    Its my hope that a player based solution is reached, either by force or by bribe. However based on community reactions here, i expect guides to be flooded with tickets that we are not allowing certain people to leave their safe zones...since few here appear to want to use the usual route of defending yourself and using your head, and seem to want to use divine intervention to get their way.

  5. #5
    The scenarios seem silly, since both side have the choice to ignore the other one.
    The best form to avoid these situations is that the enviroment is after a while strongly controlled by big tribes (replacing what would be NPC control in other games). These tribes then will make the rules and griefing would in the end be what they deem as such.
    The beginning will be like the wild west, and my wild guess is that even the devs dont really know how to deal with it if everybody wants to push their behaviour to the limits.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    This sounds like Elementary school-yard bully type of BS. "No, my junk pile! You can't have it." is akin to the crap the new kid gets when they walk on the bus the first day and suddenly they get a face full of "this seat's taken".

    If that pile is well within the borders of your homestead... and marked as such, then yeah, I see how the intruder could be at fault. If this is just a random pile in the woods, then exactly how are you different from that bully I mentioned?

    People should be able to figure this difference out for themselves, not have to wait for a guide to get involved.

  8. #8
    I personally wouldn't call any of your scenarios griefing, however, what I'm worried about is slightly different. You guys defend your junk pile and that guy runs back and places a totem smack dab in the center of that pile. Now it is 30 vrs a single player with a safe zone. This is using a mechanic in a way that is not intended to get their way. To me, this is much more legitimate griefing. I personally like the concept of a safe zones to rest, chat/relax, etc.. I just find it too easily abusable with the current rule set.
    Click the banner to join the xM today!

  9. #9
    there is lots of ways of avoiding to be griefed.. I doubt it will be a problem.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Odie View Post
    there is lots of ways of avoiding to be griefed.. I doubt it will be a problem.
    I guarantee it will be a problem.

    you have completely divergent play styles. you have this guy:
    If that pile is well within the borders of your homestead... and marked as such, then yeah, I see how the intruder could be at fault. If this is just a random pile in the woods, then exactly how are you different from that bully I mentioned?
    vs. what would be our playstyle, which is basically...we'll take what we want, hold what we have, and if you don't like it do something about it. If i want to say that ALL TRASH WITHIN SITE OF MY TOTEM IS MINE. well i can...to the level that i can enforce that claim. until it gets me banned.

    You guys defend your junk pile and that guy runs back and places a totem smack dab in the center of that pile.
    conversely i could just go the carebear way, make my tribe, then have some alt accounts cover all the territory around me with homesteads. woot good times.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

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