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  1. #1

    Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    I know the developers have said that they want to make PvP meaningful, not just something people do for no reason. As a red in almost every game, it really bothers me that for every 1 decent red player there are 10 drooling morons who want nothing more than to just kill everyone for no reason. A big problem with this is that there aren't really any meaningful consequences for death. If players really had to worry about death I think the only players that would be 'evil' for any length of time are the fairly good red players.

    Someone in IRC mentioned permadeath could be a consequence. I'm not really opposed to that, but it is a very harsh penalty. I do also recognize that lag spikes and other things out of the control of the player do happen, so it might be a bit too rough of a thing to simply kill them off immediately.

    I was thinking of tying this in with the aging system. Since players all age, I think it would be good if 'evil' players aged a number of years on their character. I'm not sure what the revival system is in this game. Maybe they make use of pre-Apocalypse 'cloning' technology, and the evil mindset of the player causes the player to age at a greatly accelerated rate for a certain amount of time.

    I know that idea might sound a little silly, but science has shown that people with 'positive' life outlooks do tend to improve better as compared to 'negative' outlooks. I'm guessing it has something to do with stress/depression, which both do affect your health negatively. In any case, I guess the 'lore' reason could be worked on, but what do you think of this idea?

    What ideas do you have on 'evil' penalties?

  2. #2
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    New Vegas Republic, 'Murica
    Posts
    202

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    I think it has a solid basis and is a reasonable trade off to be made. I appreciated your comment about the 10 drooling morons wanting to mindlessly PK everyone as it makes no sense in context of the gameworld, but if there aren't any mechanics to prevent it, then you can't really do anything about it. On the other hand I can't stand the PVE no PvP at all or the OMG he PK'd me he must hack mentality.

    I'm hoping for a hidden flag system that doesn't tell you someone is red or blue or whatever color. It should be more of a reputation note for NPC guards. Your reputation as a murderer should be spread by through other players either witnessing the act or via the rumor mill. I like player driven solutions the most when it comes to these situations. Bounty systems that are contributed to by players and NPCs can help keep players in check. If you're constantly hunted by everyone because you're infamous it adds a bit of risk. You also add a Bounty Hunter element to the game that gives traditional reds something else to do.

    I've always wanted to see a PVE bounty system too. Let's say you hunt a certain faction of human NPCs to no end. Why shouldn't they be able to put a bounty on you as well? Traditional Blues should have some risk as well if they want to slap penalties on Reds. I know people will whine about this not being fair, but c'mon, its the apocalypse. You have to assume some risk no matter what you do. Obviously bears and pigs wouldn't place a bounty on you unless some fanatical hippies come chasing you down one day.

    I generally stay Blue in most games, but its because there's usually enough Reds around for me to PvP and not even risk going Red myself these days. I spent some Red time in MO after people kept killing my damn pets. Its not that I was trying to become Red, its just that there were enough idiots en masse acting like total idiots that needed to be whacked. That's why I don't like the whole Red vs. Blue, Good vs. Evil game so much. Sometimes people do things that deserve a good hack and slash and you shouldn't have to pay with a permanent flag of any sort. If a guy tries to break into my house he's going to get a face full of shotgun.

    Sometimes the game cannot account for dynamic situations since its a pre-programmed thing. To make up for this there should be a way to stay "Red" if you want to be "Red" yet have the freedom to be able to defend your territory and take action in those grey areas of moral judgement. Maybe with the bounty system you could pay the bounty yourself to get it reduced. Maybe I'd take a hit to the aging process if I wanted to do that as well.

    I'd rather have a player enforced system with some NPC supplements and perhaps some of what Eonwe is suggesting rather than a brick wall of a feature.

  3. #3

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    I'm really not in the mood for masses of text so I haven't read it all but I think a penalty for being undead is a need for human flesh.
    Brum, brum.

  4. #4

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    I'd definitely like a player driven solution as much as possible as well. For most encounters I'd definitely like player interaction to be the driving force behind PvP, especially in regards to red punishment. The problem is, I just don't really know how much punishment the idiots are willing to take before they get filtered out. The lightest possible coded punishment is what should be given to 'evil' players that will make being 'evil' meaningful rather than being filled with a bunch of mindless PKers.

  5. #5
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    New Vegas Republic, 'Murica
    Posts
    202

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    Heh, I guess my solution to this is to make my own MMO one day and have a private dev-invite only server that would be pure heaven of only the best players that didn't whine and complain all the time or act like idiots 24/7.

  6. #6

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    brando wrote:
    I'm hoping for a hidden flag system that doesn't tell you someone is red or blue or whatever color. It should be more of a reputation note for NPC guards. Your reputation as a murderer should be spread by through other players either witnessing the act or via the rumor mill.
    this would be really, but really cool very nice idea imho

  7. #7

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    Kuroi wrote:
    brando wrote:
    I'm hoping for a hidden flag system that doesn't tell you someone is red or blue or whatever color. It should be more of a reputation note for NPC guards. Your reputation as a murderer should be spread by through other players either witnessing the act or via the rumor mill.
    this would be really, but really cool very nice idea imho
    One issue with this would be "red" would have to be perma, otherwise you'd get issues of "aha, dirty pk scum lets get him" "wtf, I'm red now?"

    If you murder my friends or kin, I have a cassus belli against you, regardless of if you say sorry and promise to be nice afterwards.

  8. #8

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    brando wrote:
    Heh, I guess my solution to this is to make my own MMO one day and have a private dev-invite only server that would be pure heaven of only the best players that didn't whine and complain all the time or act like idiots 24/7.
    An empty server in other words?

  9. #9

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    The flag system will be name tags.

    Good and neutral players you will have to meet before a name tag appears over their head, good players will have green ones.

    Evil, on the other hand, their name tags will always be displayed to everyone and in red.

  10. #10

    Re:Penalties for being 'evil'/red

    Virtus wrote:
    The flag system will be name tags.

    Good and neutral players you will have to meet before a name tag appears over their head, good players will have green ones.

    Evil, on the other hand, their name tags will always be displayed to everyone and in red.

    This is a very bad design in my opinion. If evil players have their names floating so that everybody can see them, you take out ALL the skill in hiding that a pvp game should have. So now, if I am red, I CAN'T hide behind rocks or trees, because my name will be floating on top of me and people will say: you idiot, i know you are behind that tree i can see your name. Totally silly in my opinion, you take out all the sneaking skill from players that want to be evil. Note that I won't be evil, but I won't like to see evil players name, it takes out SO much inmersion.

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