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  1. #1

    Current recipes for structures

    I look at most of the structures involving logs and I wonder if ;
    a) the recipes are intentionally wrong for some sort of balancing issue or;
    b) if the devs are simply not aware of the actual methods used to create frontier log walls that have been a staple for centuries.

    Most all of these barricades, walls and structures used nothing but long logs and mud. Rarely a few would employ rope, but the reality is that the majority did not. Using a shovel, axes and hatchets you can craft some very useful structures.

    The 1st common is a mule shoe (http://www.civilwarfieldtrips.com/sp...19logfort.html)
    Dig hole, drop in log for post, stack logs betwen posts.

    Common Long log forts consisted of digging a 12 inch wide slit trench 3-4 ft deep, drop in long log as upright pole, continue to drop poles side by side packing them tight until wall is complete, then pack dirt in at bottom to tighten the wall.

    If you were going to have the wall for an extended period, you sharpened the tops of the poles and wove rope between the logs to reduce spreading.

    The other common fortress was simply taking a log, roughly flattening two sides some what, notching the ends about 2 ft from the end and stacking them, some times using the mule shoe to hold them until complete.

    Think the child's toy Lincoln logs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Logs).

    These structure were favored by armies for the simplicty of the resources required. All you had to have was shovel and an axe. Rarely you would add the hatchet to the mix, as you could do it with just those two tools.

    No nails, rope, stakes, or other materials required. Every 5th trooper carries an axe, every trooper carries a shovel, and that is all an army needed to build a series of forts as they traveled. The Romans perfected it.

    Once rifles made the scene and soldiers could actually aim at and hit a gap in the wall, some armies would take the logs and use axes to "square" them up so that there were fewer gaps between the logs and they stacked quicker. Even more complex and "finished" wood structure used axes to square up the wood, and wooden peg/dowels to assist in fastening for structural support.


    So I guess to sum up, can we get some recipes that dont require nails or any other fasteners?

  2. #2
    I agree with this 100%, spiked log walls shouldn't be using nails is it's not realistic.

    Up the amount of twine and keep the amount of logs the same and you have a winner.

  3. #3
    to bad u have never been in the military it would seem. military stuff is always based on speed. the stuff is never built to last. its all about get in set up and OP out of stuff that can barley get the job done. we are LIVING in these areas and not going from place to place every other week/day. if he wants to add in nomad buildings with LESS stats what ever they be once he adds them in then fine, but this game isnt about mobile army tactics its setting up HOMES. HUGE dif

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Grass_Ninja View Post
    to bad u have never been in the military it would seem. military stuff is always based on speed. the stuff is never built to last. its all about get in set up and OP out of stuff that can barley get the job done. we are LIVING in these areas and not going from place to place every other week/day. if he wants to add in nomad buildings with LESS stats what ever they be once he adds them in then fine, but this game isnt about mobile army tactics its setting up HOMES. HUGE dif
    yeah, I doubt he was in your military...He was prob in U.S. Marines where even simplest fortifications were built to last and resist enemy advancement. Advanced field positions even though it may become a temporary one, should never assumed it would only/always be temp. Therefore, built to best standard possible. Even today when one talks of built to mil spec...they usually mean tough standards...not temp.
    The truth will set you free....but first it will realy piss you off !!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon View Post
    yeah, I doubt he was in your military...He was prob in U.S. Marines where even simplest fortifications were built to last and resist enemy advancement. Advanced field positions even though it may become a temporary one, should never assumed it would only/always be temp. Therefore, built to best standard possible. Even today when one talks of built to mil spec...they usually mean tough standards...not temp.
    Yep, Got it in 1 there Deacon. US Marine, Combat Vet. When you live in a world of Sappers, Snipers, IED, Artillery, Ground to ground missles and a modern battlefield, your fortificaions, no matter how temporary better be
    A) withable to take a beating
    B) comfortable to live in for any period of time and
    C) simple, easy, and able to utilize the native terrain.

    But more to the point if the fortifications I described are so flimsy, how have they survived 100's of years to be studied and even photographed? Nope the fortifications that I described are solid and would endure much longer than the need for them. And they were recylable.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooke View Post
    I look at most of the structures involving logs and I wonder if ;
    a) the recipes are intentionally wrong for some sort of balancing issue or;
    Probably this. I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't already know here, but in most cases balance > realism.

  7. #7
    I don't know how these things were made historically, but I try to think what I would do in a post apocalypic situation. Since I don't know the 'correct' way to make things, I would probably use nails to make these things. It seems the logical thing for me since I use nails to attach things together. It seems reasonable that I would attempt to do this if ever put in the situation. Of course, i don't know anything about architecture, so I would be playing it all by ear.

  8. #8
    Mgilbrtsn, you may use nails to attach things because that's what you know...but being in a post apocalyptic landscale I highly doubt you would stop yourself from building a makeshift shelter to go scavenge up some nails.

    I must agree with the OP, simpler structures should be added for beginner Architects. However I do not believe that nails would not be used to make wooden walls...so perhaps diversifying the amount of patterns available for crafting certain structures to indicate historical and logical construction methods might be the solution.

  9. #9
    I like Onieros's point. Different people would make things different ways. The most realistic (and most fun in my opinion) way to do it is to have a diverse set of recipes. If your post apocalyptic survivor is an ex-marine hes going to do it the marine way. If its me, I might use a less efficient method because I have know knowledge on building fortifications so I am going to use whatever method to hold them together that comes to the top of my head. Likely some boards and nails.

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