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  1. #1

    PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    I have read quite a bit of the conversation on the potential PvP and PK that will be available. I have paid for the game as well, but am a bit concerned.

    My experience's in ATITD and WURM online are much more related to what this game is, rather than these other MMO's (which I have played as well) that players are discussing.

    ATITD had no PK, but it had plenty of griefing. WURM has both issues.

    To me, PvP and PK is all about loss. Loss of what is the question. It's based on a perspective of what is important to each individual player. If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on, then nope, I don't want to play. It's NOT fun.

    If I build a camp (or a house or whatever) and someone comes over and builds garbage cheap buildings all around it so I can no longer even enjoy being there...then nope, I don't want to play.

    It's about value, it's about what we individually value. Each of us finds different things important. It has GOT to be balanced or this game will simply turn into a different type of gank or grief-fest. Some folks like those kind of games, but many of us, do not.

    ATITD has a law system, that allows players to define the laws...the issue with it is, it's slow. Too slow to be useful or effective. I really appreciate the law system they have and would love to have something like that here, but it would have to be a much faster process for it to do the job properly.

    In a game like this (town building etc), any form of PK that allows loss of items will be rough. Nobody wishes to spend hours on anything and have it lost in a moment.

    No place in the real world would a murderer be allowed to rampage for days on end. It shouldn't be like that in a game either, all that leads to is corpse camping and alot of angry players.

    PvP is player vs player and is generally something that is ASKED. PK on the other hand is player killing and it's usually more of a free for all environment...and not something that is chosen. It just happens and has a more out of control feel.

    Personally, I can deal with PvP. I can even get involved in it. PK on the other hand just has a bad reputation (and to most of us, it's an earned reputation) and gives me a really bad feeling if any games allows it.

    I have seen many systems use locks (in this game we could build them) and lock down each piece of gear and box that we don't wish to lose if we are killed (that we are carrying). But nothing like that would solve repeat offenders from just pounding someone over and over when they try to collect supplies, or build something.

    I have a suggestion that might help. Each time a player kills another one (I am hoping it won't be PK, but rather PvP...but either way this might work)...

    1. He receives a chain link attached to his ankle. Each link he wears slows his movement speed down. He can have a maximum of 10 before he can no longer walk at more than crawl speed. He can have a blacksmith remove the links, one per RL hour. However, the blacksmith would earn some form of bad reputation for each link removed and thus, also earn links after so many are removed for others. Once the player is maxed out (10 links) that player can also be captured easily and placed in jail.

    or...

    2. Players are limited as to how many they can kill in one day. The cost of being captured should be high. So, for example...they killed someone and stole a ton of ore. That player would be required to collect 1.5x the amount of ore stolen before he would be released. So maybe during his jail time, his spirit can exit the jail (not interact with anyone) but can collect the retribution payment. The goal of course, would be to not get caught.

    ***Just ideas, and I don't have a clue if any would work. But PK or PvP needs cost. Cost EQUAL (or higher) to the losses they give to other players. 4 hours of real life time and work, should cost the pk'r that as well if they are caught. THAT would be fair.

    There are way too many games that just let the gank fests ruin the game. This game has SO much potential.

    I prefer choice...if I want to PvP or not, I say yes or no. But if that can't be here, then please...make sure the cost to the PK'r equals the loss of the player being pk'd.

    Bottom line, I don't want to lose hours of work. In fact, I can say that I won't do it for long if it happens.

    Just my thoughts. :S

  2. #2

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

    If I build a camp (or a house or whatever) and someone comes over and builds garbage cheap buildings all around it so I can no longer even enjoy being there...then nope, I don't want to play.
    What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

    To me, PvP and PK is all about loss. Loss of what is the question. It's based on a perspective of what is important to each individual player. If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on, then nope, I don't want to play. It's NOT fun.


    If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.
    [img size=500]http://i42.tinypic.com/15yys69.jpg[/img]

  3. #3

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Jeopardy wrote:

    1. He receives a chain link attached to his ankle. Each link he wears slows his movement speed down. He can have a maximum of 10 before he can no longer walk at more than crawl speed. He can have a blacksmith remove the links, one per RL hour. However, the blacksmith would earn some form of bad reputation for each link removed and thus, also earn links after so many are removed for others. Once the player is maxed out (10 links) that player can also be captured easily and placed in jail.

    I prefer choice...if I want to PvP or not, I say yes or no. But if that can't be here, then please...make sure the cost to the PK'r equals the loss of the player being pk'd.

    Bottom line, I don't want to lose hours of work. In fact, I can say that I won't do it for long if it happens.

    Just my thoughts. :S
    I love your idea #1 :laugh: It would just be great to see those gankers to crawl around with huge chains on their ankle...the best feature ever ! And I agree with what you wrote, I think every player should have the freedom to chose if they want to PvP or not.

  4. #4

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Largion wrote:
    Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?
    PvP done right is fun, and adds challenges. Done wrong, destroys the game.

    What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.
    Actually, if you are willing to PK, then you should be willing to have a price as well if you are caught. Something equal to the cost of what you took. Control should be based on player laws or developer rules. So yes, you can control.

    If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.
    Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

    This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.

  5. #5

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Jeopardy wrote:
    Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

    This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.
    I played UO for 6 something years SWG, and latest was Darkfall.

    Im not talking about banking every minute but if you have been mining for 10 min its most likerly time too. Just be smart about it and you will be fine.
    [img size=500]http://i42.tinypic.com/15yys69.jpg[/img]

  6. #6
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Alberta Canada
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    17

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Also if your pk'ed, ruining your rep to the point of not being able to deal with the NPC merchants, being KOS to NPC's. is nice as well..PROVIDED its a single toon server, if its not you can bypass all negatives cause the bad toon will never really be punished.

    Your #1 idea is a nice touch i have to say, slow you down and stick out like a soar thumb..nice

    masic

  7. #7

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

    I agree that if you are going to risk mining for 4 hours straight(probably unattended), without banking, thats your fault. Not the games or the player that happens to stumble across a weighted down opponent.

    If you feel you're in danger. Bank. If you have reached a certain limited of wealth that would really suck to lose. Bank. See someone/hear someone coming? Hide/Run until you find out who they are.

    I think there is a difference between me pvping your ass down in the wilds and pking. Pking to me is someone that runs around "searching" for people to jump and would gladly kill you over and over if he came back to the same area 20 minutes later and saw you mining again.

  8. #8

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    PANZERBUNNY wrote:
    I think there is a difference between me pvping your ass down in the wilds and pking. Pking to me is someone that runs around "searching" for people to jump and would gladly kill you over and over if he came back to the same area 20 minutes later and saw you mining again.

    you would blame a player who returned to a place where he knew he could collect 20 minutes of mining in a few seconds of pvp? That still seems like the harvesters spot. Get hit where you are, change locations next time.

  9. #9

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Jeopardy wrote:
    Largion wrote:
    Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?
    PvP done right is fun, and adds challenges. Done wrong, destroys the game.
    So far it looks like your two suggestions are an example of it done wrong.

    What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.
    Actually, if you are willing to PK, then you should be willing to have a price as well if you are caught. Something equal to the cost of what you took. Control should be based on player laws or developer rules. So yes, you can control.
    You worded it that "Each time a player kills another one" NOT whenever they are caught. This is confusing, can you explain how somebody would be 'caught'.

    If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.
    Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

    This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.
    This is a team oriented game. If you don't want to be ganked for your goods then work as a team with some like minded folks. In the event you run into some PVP or it runs into you, you'll have better chances of keeping your goods.
    Council Of Mullahs
    ????? ??? ??? ???? ???????



  10. #10
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Lakeville, MN
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    16

    Re:PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

    Or do like Eve and mine with one toon and run resources to the bank with another :P
    Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?

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