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  1. #1

    Too fast too far

    I love Xsyon. But getting skills and being able to craft stuff is too fast. Progress so easy if you know what you are doing. Lets take it apart bit by bit so you know what I'm talking about.

    - Scavenging. I started with 25 and 5 days later I have 90. I find 3-4 old saw blades a day when I focus on scavenging, abuot 20 bats, bazillion weights and hundreds of nails and screws. I have a feeling that I will have maxed scavanging by next Sunday. Two weeks into game and I will already have maxed most important skill (that lets you get whatever you want by simply trading for awesome stuff you can scavange) - Broken imho.

    - Toolcrafting - Different tools have no level requirements. Standing on rocky surface, farming rocks and using them to to make random 1-rock tools will yield you all tools you can make in this game in matter of days. No difference between pioneers master chisel (which you can get at very low toolcrafting levels) and regular chisel. Not that I can see anyway. With this anyone can become a toolcrafter in 3 days only which kills toolcrafting as a profession. Unlike with leather or bone you can get to any tools and don't need blueprints to unlock sets.

    - Weaponcrafting is same as toolcrafting, stand in one place and spam medium wooden handle + nails (once you get it) and you can make any weapon in just few days (providing you have enough wooden handles and nails, not that hard to obtain to be honest) regardless of your skill level.

    - Architecture - lvl5 architect can make complex walls but can not make branch fences? Spamming enough will yield you anything you want, same as toolcrafting (although not that easy). How about some limitations to what lvl5 people can do, and progressive advance. This way it feels too much like lottery.

    - Fishing and foraging - Progress is simply too fast. At lvl 20 fishing you can feed entire tribe for a week in only few hours effort of fishing. And by the time you end your fishing session you could be lvl40.

    Leathercrafting, tailoring and basketry make more sense. You need to obtain knowledge from blueprints and those are level based. You can not make daogwa assault armor unless you are lvl50 or higher in basketry and getting new parts is hard, you need to make a loot of grass twine to get there. Twine??? Yes, that is another broken part. You should not get new daogwa assault armor part knowledge by crafting pouches. Same with bone armor, bone stakes should not give you deathbone armor knowledge (if you already know how to make one part). This is not that bad as progression on higher levels is really slow, but still is not optimal imho.

    I'm a solo player (I did a lot of trading for my baskets at start) that is now completely self sufficient in this game. In a month or two I will have most skills maxed or very closed simply by grinding a lot as resources are too abudant and skill progression does not exist for most important craft of all - toolcrafting. I had all the tools I will even need in just 3 days.

    It is enjoyable to be able to do everything so fast, but I'm afraid that in a month we will not have an economy as everyone will be able to do and make everything.

    There are ways to solve this. Like much slower progression, reducing resources (junkpiles are simply too many and too rich) but I have no silver bullet to get it right from day one. In example of toolcrafting I would like to see some sort of difference in quality of tools and clear separation. For example:

    - Forager set of tools - until lvl20
    - Scrapper set of tools - until lvl40
    - Trapper set of tools - Until lvl60
    - Pioneer set of tool - 60-80
    - Master set of tools - 80+ (hard to make, tough on resources, fail rate at crafting them should be big)

    Similar for weapons. A newbie crafter can make PMX bats but should not be able to make much more. Lvl separation would encourange people to trade at lower levels if they want to get something instead of getting it in only few days grind.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I just spent the last five hours non-stop scavenging, and I only got it from 65-72. Off a junk pile, it's almost %100 fail. On a junk pile, my success rate is still pretty abysmal.

    I then tried to get my leatherworking skill from 5-25 so I could learn a recipe I found. I used several days worth of piled up leather and after an hour or two of non-stop grinding, I was at 13. All of my hides are gone, all of my scrap turned into straps.

    So I went on to weaponcrafting. Every bat I've found since wipe yielded me one point in weaponcrafting (and I haven't found an old saw blade yet, so I can't make a handle for anything). I also took every bone I had and made stakes (the only thing I could make in bonecrafting). Not sure I even got a point in that.

    My intelligence is 90, my perception is 91, and my Dex is 70. None of my skills are below 49.

    No, I don't think crafting is too easy.
    It seems I've singed a troll or two too many with my trusty flamethrower, and now hark! The ban hammer hovereth. Troll me more, and I'll see it falls on your head and not on mine, by the power of the report post button.


    On a side note, I'm sorta cranky, but I love you all anyway!

  3. #3
    Xsyon Citizen Saorlan's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP - crafting different sets of tools should make some difference. Right now I can make stone paddles and get at least 5 new receipies easy. I see no point to most of the stuff I am getting receipies for. I see no point in increasing the skill level as it has no effect other than to reduce failure.

    For a game engine that is very similar to Roma Victor it is a shame it does not follow the excellent crafting that was in that game. Each item you created was unique and has a quality level to it. So if you had a bad quality hammer it would reduce the overall quality of the finished product. Therefore your tools actually meant something.

    For a crafting based game it sure seems very easy and this is going to mean that there is no where for a character to progress to. No progression = people leave. That would be a shame.

    I want a long term challenge to this game. There should be no way whatsoever that anyone is even approaching 90 in any skill. That is way to fast.

  4. #4
    Agreed. Way too fast. Low level crafted items should be much worse than the higher levels, should break fast and should provide low quality items. Maxing a skill should take months, not days or weeks.

  5. #5
    Xsyon Citizen Dade512's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Oklahoma City
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    188
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    Agreed. Way too fast. Low level crafted items should be much worse than the higher levels, should break fast and should provide low quality items. Maxing a skill should take months, not days or weeks.
    If I recall, isn't this the plan? Its just not implemented yet. Probably would come in with item degradation.
    Maxing a skill should take time, even if all you're doing is grinding them as the op seemed to be doing. But also, isn't there a soft cap that will prevent him from maxing all like he suggested?
    It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

  6. #6
    Soft cap? How is that reflected?

  7. #7
    You do know that decay in your skills that are not being used has not been turned on yet, right? I think that will be a pretty good size factor in this complaint.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    Agreed. Way too fast. Low level crafted items should be much worse than the higher levels, should break fast and should provide low quality items. Maxing a skill should take months, not days or weeks.
    Agree also, at this rate going maxed out in 2 weeks. Even with the lag

  9. #9
    Certainly the way you explain it, this sounds way wrong. It should clearly be much harder to get to advanced levels of crafting. Not sure how many of you were around when UO was young, but getting to master a particular skill was kind of a server-wide achievement. In the first year or two, there would rarely be more than one or two grandmaster smiths online at the same time on a server.
    Not that this has to be UO of course, but the difference here seems quite staggering.

    It also seems like there is nothing that is emerging as a kind of currency. Something needs to be desirable by everyone and difficult, yet possible, to obtain. My main problem at the moment for example is that anything I can produce or get, are things that no one really wants or at least they can very easily get themselves. I suppose there might be some rare scavenge items, but if they are that rare it hardly becomes a currency.

  10. #10
    Or just scavage enough currency that was used before the Apocalypse, put it into circulation again and make that our currency. It is whatever we make it to be. I think most of this game is dependent on what WE as the community of Xsyon make it.

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