Combat Mode and other requests and issues.

[Yinn]

Yes Im all for sneaking up. Im a stealth player. And I understand this game has Hiding as a skill but how much stealth are we talking here.

I would like it to just be a chameleon type move, not pure invisibility. and if it was like Ultimas system were you were limited that would be even better, I hate WoWs take on permanent stealth.

[MrDDT]

Stealth is in, and no you are not locked in place.

Combat in its current state would not be a game I would want to play. I dont think anyone would find it fun at all.

[jessebfox]

MrDDT wrote:
jessebfox wrote:

The ability to completely avoid a (melee) pvp fight if you run after 1-2 hits, well that is a developers choice. It certainly would appease a group of people and drive off another group. Perhaps there will be some sort of combat abilities or a tactical way you can limit the other person from running. We really won't know until all the launch features are enabled.

I agree that this is what they should be aiming for. If you are standing around and someone comes up and hits you a couple of times and you turn tail and run, they shouldnt be able to melee you down easy at all. Plus ranged will come into play here to stop runners. I think a mix of allowing melee combat to have a running attack that uses up a lot of stamina and normal face offs to be faster will be the best. With people able to completely avoid a lot of fights by seeing reds or people they dont like and just running off.[/quote]

I want to be clear I did not say or mean that they should be aiming for this. I was saying basically if they did this it is their choice, and it is one way to go. It certainly would make pvp not a focus and put it as a very minor feature that is rare. The pvp aspect is not the main thing that attracted me to this game, so no matter what form combat and pvp takes I would adapt. There is really not enough info from Jooky himself to say what the end goal is imho.

For any combat system to be one I am interested in there should be meaningful tactical choices involved in the actual fight itself (not just in character build), so I would love for some abilities to hamstring them, whether it is by activating a special skill, aiming for the leg, etc.

If the devs went the route that once you engage someone in combat they are locked in and can't flee, that would be opposite version of the super easy to flee extreme. It would appease one group, and upset the other.

From all of what I saw, even with proposed changes it seems to me combat in Xsyon will be rather drab and not engaging. Of course if you read the feature list, it is a rather small section on combat and a ton on other things, so I can understand if the focus of the game is not on combat but other features.

[Ciik]

Im gonna have to read this stuff. But if the suggestion is to cause an aggressive player to be "stuck" in a contorted position that halves mobility or substantially deters pursuit of a target to the point where all that target needs to do to avoid combat is to walk away, this game better be up front about it now and wear the pve label of craftastic game-play like Fallen Earth.

[Virtus]

read the stuff before commenting and don't make assumptions please

[Ciik]

Virtus wrote:

read the stuff before commenting and don't make assumptions please

I did, Virtus, thx. As my first sentence was Im gonna have to read this stuff.

MrDDT wrote:

Stealth is in, and no you are not locked in place.

Combat in its current state would not be a game I would want to play. I dont think anyone would find it fun at all.

And as long as DDT's feedback remains, we have nothing to worry about. I also think that the point about maintaining this free-form of game-play can't be over-emphasized.

[MrDDT]

Ciik wrote:

Virtus wrote:

read the stuff before commenting and don't make assumptions please

I did, Virtus, thx. As my first sentence was Im gonna have to read this stuff.

MrDDT wrote:

Stealth is in, and no you are not locked in place.

Combat in its current state would not be a game I would want to play. I dont think anyone would find it fun at all.

And as long as DDT's feedback remains, we have nothing to worry about. I also think that the point about maintaining this free-form of game-play can't be over-emphasized.

That last statement I made is because combat isnt fully in nor is it tweaked and balanced. Of course people wouldnt want to play it like it is, because it only has right and left click as fast as you can. (pretty much)

Like I said I will make more balances and changes as I see the feature of combat put in more. Like special attacks and maybe even ranged attacks.

You guys should talk more about core concepts instead of details.

Things to think on.

*)Is it ok for people to be able to get away from combat?
*)Should people that are 10% life be able to get away easy?
*)Should people that want to avoid combat be able to get away pretty easy?
*)Should there be safe areas? Or safer?
*)What types of punishments should people get for killing non combatants
*)What type of rewards should the winner get.
*)What if you choose to KO people vs kill them?

ETC. Core concepts NOT about (Well I think you should be able to attack 3x per second with xyz weapon.) Or, (If you hit someone it he leg with a sneak attack they shouldnt be able to run normal speed but 1/2 speed).

Thats just my thoughts.

[w0rm]

I though I'll share some of my opinions too:

I think running speed should be based on your Health too (less heatlh you have, slower you are), but only come in effect once you are lower than e.g. 80% of HP. This number is just a figure, it wouldn't make you slower after taking first 2-3hits (let's say first 1-2seconds when you get jumped or start a fight) and you would still have a chance to escape (from Melee at least). This would give a chance to escape at the beginning of the fight, but if you decide to fight you wouldn't be able to escape low on health when you see that fight is not going the way you thought.

Still, I'd personally like to see some special skills which would give you a chance to catch even those who decide to run as soon as they see you. It shouldn't be something you can use (with success) on every runner, but something which would let you catch up on the runner from time to time.

While I love PvP, I'd still balance everything in favor of runners (not by much tho), since I think brainless PKing/Griefing doesn't do anything good for the game itself. It's nothing carebear about that, since if you want PvP - go and fight someone who is up for it too, not carebearly look for targets who are not ready and just run away.

my 2 cents.

[Jadzia]

"indeed, the idea of combat mode is to allow those who want to run away to do so."

I'm sure many of us great this feature ( I mean the non-PvP players). At the same time I understand that it takes out a lot of fun for the PvP players. The developers' goal is to create a balanced game which is fun for both sides...so the goal of my suggestions is to keep the new feature, but to keep PKing as fun as possible at the same time.

If I were a PvPer ( which I'm not, so I might be wrong about my assumptions),what I would be looking for would be a challenging fight. So attacking an unprepaired player who doesn't carry weapon and armor is pointless from this point of view. So let the woodcutter or crafter run away if he choose to do so...but if he choose to enter combat mode and to fight, after this decision he should loose any coded ability to run away. My opinion is that if anyone choose to fight, then he should not be able to runaway when he is recognizing he is about to loose the match.

This can be implemented by using combat mode, or by using speed-energy restrictions.
Personally I think combat mode is not a very immersive feature, not very realistic either...its more realistic to say that someone who keeps a weapon in his hand and wears some type of armor can run much slower, and he loose energy faster as well.

This speed difference between the victim and the attacker has to be significant to reach the original goal...to clearly give the opportunity to the attacked person to run away if he choose to do so. I'd love to see a skill ( not a stat) which could be trained in the game, like swimming, to enhance running speed..this would give a biger chance to the PKer to catch his target, if the target was lazy enough not to train this skill.

If the attacked player decide to fight back, probably he will wield a weapon too...so he looses his speed advantage instantly.
Later during the fight, if any of the combatants wants to runaway to avoid death, he has to unwield his weapon and to try to run...but in this case the low HP should definitely effect his running speed. The more injured he is, the lower his speed should be...so the winning player has the chance to catch him.

This implementation can be easily abused by running up to the target, quickly wielding a weapon, hit, unwield, and running after the target again.
To avoid this, wielding and unwielding a weapon should effect the running speed too in such a degree which would make this technique useless.

In the everyday life in the game the peaceful player should be able to live his life in peace, but when it comes to something special like trading or carrying big amount of goodies, the PKers should get a chance to interfere.I don't know about the bank system in the game, if it is local or global banking...but if its local, the players should set up caravans to get into another town, and these caravans should travel slowly...so noone could runaway from fights, only if they give up on their goods.

[Virtus]

Just a note, removal or modification of the current combat mode is not an option.