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Thread: Skill system?

  1. #1

    Skill system?

    Is it true, that you are able to max out many skills with the current skill system? I thought there would be a skill cap. Without a working skill-cap the game will make the same mistakes like Darkfall. Especially for a sandbox-game with big crafting-elements like Xsyon it is very important, that one person isnt able to create or to do too much things. Moreover it is important, that a fighter cannot be an excellent crafter and a crafter cannot be an excellent fighter. Without such restrictions everyone will be able to do everything and there will be no need to cooperate with each other or to have people who are focused on crafting or fighting.

    So if it is true, that you are able to max out manxy skills, I think, that it is necessary to change this.
    "To generalize is to be an idiot." (William Blake)

    Tribe: Hopi Tribe

  2. #2
    there will be a soft cap and skill decay. however, I don't think either are turned on yet. But from the devs mouth.

  3. #3
    Skill decay is all around bad news. You should not be punished for wandering around just having fun enjoying the game, and you should not take a hit to the skill of your main craft if you want to play around with other crafts for awhile. Skill decay may be realistic, but fun>realism and NOTHING about a skill decay makes anything more fun. It is a game mechanic that basically says "Skrew you if you want to stop and smell the roses and just have fun. This game is about work, work, work. Its a second job, and fun is not allowed." When I heard mention of skill decay I almost quit on the spot until I realized it probably wouldn't include recipe decay.

    Skill decay is an idea so bad its a game breaker. In fact one of my friends who I told about this game lost interest instantly after I mentioned there may be skill decay at some point. Its just that bad. If you wan't players, you don't want skill decay.

    A soft skill cap however, I fully support. As it stands it is very easy to grind to the top in a skill. If they implement a soft skill cap that slows down leveling based on how many skill points you already have, it will make it so people can jump into the game, get insanely good at a small number of skills really fast, then slowly add on new crafts over time, making it so you can feel like a contributing member of a tribe very quickly, but you can still develop your character over a very long time.

    If the soft level cap is done properly, they will probably release new skills faster than all but the most obsessive grinders can max all their skills.

    One thing I will say is you DO want people to be able to craft and fight on the same character in a game like this. People play sandboxes because they want to be able to experience very diverse gameplay without creating 5000 alts. PVP, and crafting are both extremely major features of this game, and people should be able to experience both of these from a single account.

    So in summary. Grinding should slow as the character gains more skill points to prevent people for easily getting characters that can perform any given role, but you should be able to have at least a couple different crafting skills on a character that is a firebreathing monster in combat. Skill decay should never be implemented at all, because it punishes players for doing what they enjoy, instead of whatever it takes to keep their main skills maxed.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Andius View Post
    Skill decay is all around bad news. You should not be punished for wandering around just having fun enjoying the game, and you should not take a hit to the skill of your main craft if you want to play around with other crafts for awhile. Skill decay may be realistic, but fun>realism and NOTHING about a skill decay makes anything more fun. It is a game mechanic that basically says "Skrew you if you want to stop and smell the roses and just have fun. This game is about work, work, work. Its a second job, and fun is not allowed." When I heard mention of skill decay I almost quit on the spot until I realized it probably wouldn't include recipe decay.

    Skill decay is an idea so bad its a game breaker. In fact one of my friends who I told about this game lost interest instantly after I mentioned there may be skill decay at some point. Its just that bad. If you wan't players, you don't want skill decay.

    A soft skill cap however, I fully support. As it stands it is very easy to grind to the top in a skill. If they implement a soft skill cap that slows down leveling based on how many skill points you already have, it will make it so people can jump into the game, get insanely good at a small number of skills really fast, then slowly add on new crafts over time, making it so you can feel like a contributing member of a tribe very quickly, but you can still develop your character over a very long time.

    If the soft level cap is done properly, they will probably release new skills faster than all but the most obsessive grinders can max all their skills.

    One thing I will say is you DO want people to be able to craft and fight on the same character in a game like this. People play sandboxes because they want to be able to experience very diverse gameplay without creating 5000 alts. PVP, and crafting are both extremely major features of this game, and people should be able to experience both of these from a single account.

    So in summary. Grinding should slow as the character gains more skill points to prevent people for easily getting characters that can perform any given role, but you should be able to have at least a couple different crafting skills on a character that is a firebreathing monster in combat. Skill decay should never be implemented at all, because it punishes players for doing what they enjoy, instead of whatever it takes to keep their main skills maxed.
    Good post. I agree with everything you said.

  5. #5
    you can do everything just not all at once. which is the way it should be, you can loose and gain stats. you can loose strength by not doing anything that requires it, or doing something that requires it and then not eating or drinking. you can gain perception by fishing. so you can shift strength to perception.but that is all i have heard from tribe mates that had it happen.

    how ever did you even mention that the skill loose happens based on what your doing, not if your offline.
    TokTok - Axe Welding Basket Weaver

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Andius View Post
    Skill decay is an idea so bad its a game breaker. In fact one of my friends who I told about this game lost interest instantly after I mentioned there may be skill decay at some point. Its just that bad. If you want players, you don't want skill decay.
    The fact that you, who obviously hates skill decay, explained it to someone and they hated it doesn't mean anything. In fact it probably just means that you managed to pass your own bias on to someone else. Also having it be a "deal breaker" for you before you even see how it works or it's implemented in the game probably isn't healthy in the least. See what they have planned, then talk about it. To hear of an idea you're not a big fan of, imagine how it will be (in the worst light possible) then getting mad at the result is rather silly if you think about it.

  7. #7
    You might be right, Robo. But when he mentioned realism, I thought it was hilarious that anyone could consider skill decay. I still remember stuff I learned over a decade ago... yes, it starts to get fuzzy - but as they say "it's like riding a bike."

    If they add skill decay, then they need to add skill acceleration when regaining lost points.

  8. #8
    If skill decay works so that you can retain at least 1 or 2 lvl 70 or 80 skill without too much problem (81 or higher decays automatically if you're online) and have the rest at like 50 or 60 before decay really starts happening (a skill that goes to 54 might drop an 80 skill down to 79 and that skill back to 80 might drop the other to 50) that should be fine. The point is so that you still "specialize", but can really learn everything at one point just not all at once. I think decay is a WAY better idea than a soft cap... I think a HARD cap is a way better idea than a soft cap also. The game shouldn't promote the possibility of all end game characters having every skill at once. There needs to be specialization and skill decay can bring that to the table. However, things like running/jumping/swiming/ ... you should be able to have those all at 80 without any problems in my opinion.

    The skill decay should decrease skills either by age (you loose a point in everything if your char did nothing for a few in game months).
    Or you decay a skill when another skill is used.... not random point dropping.


    I actually liked the game more when I heard skill decay was a planned feature. Diversity is the key... Everyone with the same "end game" build would be a sad story whether it takes 1 year or 10. The more realism isn't always the better.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andius View Post
    Skill decay is all around bad news. You should not be punished for wandering around just having fun enjoying the game, and you should not take a hit to the skill of your main craft if you want to play around with other crafts for awhile. Skill decay may be realistic, but fun>realism and NOTHING about a skill decay makes anything more fun. It is a game mechanic that basically says "Skrew you if you want to stop and smell the roses and just have fun. This game is about work, work, work. Its a second job, and fun is not allowed." When I heard mention of skill decay I almost quit on the spot until I realized it probably wouldn't include recipe decay.

    Skill decay is an idea so bad its a game breaker. In fact one of my friends who I told about this game lost interest instantly after I mentioned there may be skill decay at some point. Its just that bad. If you wan't players, you don't want skill decay.

    A soft skill cap however, I fully support. As it stands it is very easy to grind to the top in a skill. If they implement a soft skill cap that slows down leveling based on how many skill points you already have, it will make it so people can jump into the game, get insanely good at a small number of skills really fast, then slowly add on new crafts over time, making it so you can feel like a contributing member of a tribe very quickly, but you can still develop your character over a very long time.

    If the soft level cap is done properly, they will probably release new skills faster than all but the most obsessive grinders can max all their skills.

    One thing I will say is you DO want people to be able to craft and fight on the same character in a game like this. People play sandboxes because they want to be able to experience very diverse gameplay without creating 5000 alts. PVP, and crafting are both extremely major features of this game, and people should be able to experience both of these from a single account.

    So in summary. Grinding should slow as the character gains more skill points to prevent people for easily getting characters that can perform any given role, but you should be able to have at least a couple different crafting skills on a character that is a firebreathing monster in combat. Skill decay should never be implemented at all, because it punishes players for doing what they enjoy, instead of whatever it takes to keep their main skills maxed.
    I disagree with about everything you said.

    skill decay is great because it forces a player to make a choice...this or that, jack of all, or master of a couple. Soft cap+skill decay is even better because it ensure that you will have to be extremely focused on something to become a master at it. This makes for great character and world diversity.

    sorry, but you shouldnt be able to be able to have every ability maxed out just because you have the time on your hands to do it...thats horrible game design, since that then sets the barrier to entry to be 'maxed at everything'. horrible horrible horrible.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by robofriven View Post
    The fact that you, who obviously hates skill decay, explained it to someone and they hated it doesn't mean anything. In fact it probably just means that you managed to pass your own bias on to someone else. Also having it be a "deal breaker" for you before you even see how it works or it's implemented in the game probably isn't healthy in the least. See what they have planned, then talk about it. To hear of an idea you're not a big fan of, imagine how it will be (in the worst light possible) then getting mad at the result is rather silly if you think about it.
    I didn't explain what skill decay was, I just mention that they might implement it. He already knew and hated skill decay.

    And I imagine skill decay in the light that A, you will lose points in skills as you play. B, you will lose points in skills as you train other skills. In either light I am fully 100% against it, even if its light. I don't need to hear what they have planned or what kind of skill decay they intend to use. Its like saying "How can you say you don't want to a bone broken, when you don't even know what bone they will break or how bad the break will be?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubanka View Post
    I disagree with about everything you said.

    skill decay is great because it forces a player to make a choice...this or that, jack of all, or master of a couple. Soft cap+skill decay is even better because it ensure that you will have to be extremely focused on something to become a master at it. This makes for great character and world diversity.

    sorry, but you shouldnt be able to be able to have every ability maxed out just because you have the time on your hands to do it...thats horrible game design, since that then sets the barrier to entry to be 'maxed at everything'. horrible horrible horrible.
    A soft skill cap can accomplish this alone without skill decay. If you make it so after 500 points it takes twice as long to level. At 1000 points, four times a long. At 1500 eight times as long etc. And there is say, 5000 skill points total with another 100 being added every month or so, then you WILL have to make choices. By the time you get to 2500 points it will take you 64 times as long per skill point to level something. If you are still managing to push levels at that point you just flat out deserve them. I know for me, at that point, I will stop caring about leveling. And you would have be a grinding machine just to get to that level.

    That sets the bar at max in all skills? Sorry but thats just unrealistic. By the time you reached 5000 points you would have been grinding the last 500 points at 1/1024th the normal rate. I don't care if every skill raises as fast as terraforming, that is impossible to max.

    I would support a form of VOLUNTARY skill decay where you could choose a skill and select decay, then train another skill at a normal rate but losing points from that skill on a 1:1 basis (So you are training at the normal speed but your skill total is not rising). But I never want to have to re-do leveling, and I don't want to feel like I can't try another craft out or perform some low level actions in a craft without destroying the work In the craft I care about, and I certainly do not want to feel like I am nerfing my character by not constantly doing things which generate skill points.

    Skill decay is an obsolete, and quite frankly crap idea only favored by uber grinders that can be entirely replaced by a well done soft cap. When you get a well done soft cap the difference between someone who plays a decent amount and a no-lifer will be 1-3 maxed skills.

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