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  1. #1

    Wounds and Death Penalties

    As of right now combat has no real meaning, other than I get your gear! But as gear only gives minimal advantages in combat...

    In a game filled with open world combat, losing stats, perma-death or some other harsh penalty would merely discourage people from stepping of their homestead and lead to rage quits.

    However it can't stand as is, with no penalty. The other night when I was fighting greifers, their homesteads were right next to mine. I would kill one, and then they respawn, rest up, and be back at it within a minute. Likewise we could beat up on eachother and then run back to homestead, rest up and and charge back into the fray within a minute. This basically means the only thing that will stop your opponents from harassing you every time you step off deed to chop a tree or scavenge is constant vigilance and pressure. This can work for the moment but eventually there needs to be a system where if your neighbor is bothering you, and you kill them, that you can enjoy some peace for at least a little while

    The solution is a death penalty, and with the sting of death meaning something it allows for one of the most unique and fun systems of damage I have ever seen in a game. The wound system.

    The Death Penalty

    For all that lead up, the idea is pretty simple. After you die for 30 minutes your outgoing damage is reduced by 90% due to how frail you are after recovering. Also any outgoing healing is entirely prevented. So you cannot do any damage worth mentioning and you cannot heal your allies, which basically means, you can't do anything related to combat for half an hour, preventing you from coming back and bothering your neighbor who just wants to go out and scavenge for awhile. You can still gather, and still craft with no penalties whatsoever during this half hour.

    In addition, not everyone wants you to not be able to fight for half an hour. Perhaps your fight was friendly. Perhaps your neighbor just wants some action. Whoever lays the killing blow to you, can choose to "spare" you. If you are spared, you take no death penalty. This can be done at any time during the half hour by simply typing "/spare playername" so that your killer won't have to deal with a bunch of "Spare? Yes/No" windows in the middle of a big battle.

    Also death penalties don't stack, you do not receive additional time if you die during the half hour because I mean come on. You're doing 10% damage. If your the one being greifed the guy could hunt you down and kill you every time you go off deed all day and prevent you from ever being able to fight back again until one of you logs off or you hide on your deed for half an hour.

    The Wound System

    To any of you who have played Wurm Online this system will be familiar. I'm sure that gives some mixed reactions but this system is not only the most realistic damage system I have ever seen and in my opinion its the most fun. Its not "Oh that bear hit me for 50 damage, lets run away and eat some mule deer jerky and have a rest." Its "OH GOD!!! THE BLOOD IS GOING EVERYWHERE!!! I'M BLEEDING TO DEATH!!! SOMEONE STOP THIS BLEEDING!!!!" You don't know intensity in combat until you realize that even though you just took down your opponent, you are still bleeding to death. You don't know fun as a healer until you have some random player come tearing towards your homestead, blood going everywhere begging you to bandage their wounds for them before they die.

    So the wound system would work like this. Instead of taking 10 points of damage, you take a 10 point wound, and the total of your wounds is how much health you are missing. Wounds range from light, to "OMG!!!" (Perhaps with slightly different names. ) A light wound is like a bruise or a scratch. Given time it will heal on its own, but it will it will heal faster if treated. As wounds go up though, the time it takes to heal gets longer. Not just longer. More moderate wounds will not heal unless treated. Severe wounds will actually increase in damage over time.

    There are also three special conditions wounds can receive one which will change conditions if untreated.

    A deep wound. Deep wounds are obviously a wound where the slash, bite, etc. Goes deeply into the body. These wounds require stitches to heal.

    Unclean wounds, these are wounds that have some sort of contaminate in them, like an animal bite or a poison arrow. If quickly treated with some form of cleansing agent or antidote, the unclean condition will go away and the wound will be fine. If not they will become infected or poisoned wounds. Infected or poisoned wounds can be treated by drinking a medicine or antidote, but they will take longer to heal than if they had been treated quickly.

    Finally wounds with heavy bleeding. These wounds are treated with bandages, and will quickly weaken whoever has them until the bleeding is stopped with a bandage.

    These effects ARE stackable. You could receive a bite from a rabid bear that is deep, unclean, and bleeding heavily. In this case you would treat the wound, stitch it up, then bandage it. Or for an unclean wound with heavy bleeding you could use a treated bandage.

    Conclusion

    Again, I realize both my suggests today have been very long winded and I thank anyone who has taken the time to fully read and consider them.

    Comments and Suggestions are welcome.

  2. #2
    I'm a little iffy on the death penalty suggestion, but the Wound suggestion is just amazing.

  3. #3
    The solution is simple. Get rid of the safezone bullshit once gates are operational (I'm even giving in here) and turn on asset destruction. They grief you, you burn down their city. It's simple and it works. No need to rewrite the playbook!


    Vapid Demographics

  4. #4
    i actually could get behind a 'death penalty'. there needs to be a mechanic to slow down the naked grief pk thing. if you win a fight you should get some bit of respite for it.
    I think 30 minutes is too long, maybe 5...it shouldn't be punitive, just a mechanism to prevent the instanteous move back into the fight.

    the wounds thing. meh. i'd settle for acceptable basic combat mechanics for getting into something like that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Proto View Post
    The solution is simple. Get rid of the safezone bullshit once gates are operational (I'm even giving in here) and turn on asset destruction. They grief you, you burn down their city. It's simple and it works. No need to rewrite the playbook!
    And every asset, of every city, and every homestead would be reduced to ashes before morning. People aren't always online to protect their assets, and there isn't even a real defenders advantage yet given the lack of ranged weapons. It would be mobs of greifers roaming around destroying everything in their path. If any resistance was met, they would simply come back after they went to bed. They could change the name to "Naked players with pre-order weapons online." My solution to this problem is found here:

    http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...er-territories

    For this topic lets suffice to say, I do not think that is a valid substitute for a death penalty.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Andius View Post
    And every asset, of every city, and every homestead would be reduced to ashes before morning. People aren't always online to protect their assets, and there isn't even a real defenders advantage yet given the lack of ranged weapons. It would be mobs of greifers roaming around destroying everything in their path. If any resistance was met, they would simply come back after they went to bed. They could change the name to "Naked players with pre-order weapons online." My solution to this problem is found here:

    http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...er-territories

    For this topic lets suffice to say, I do not think that is a valid substitute for a death penalty.
    That's crap. I've played games w/asset destruction and that just doesn't happen. Obviously you don't make it as easy as clear cutting a forest and you allow defenders to prepare, but there's an easy way to balance the system that you don't need more artificial features to be programmed in to make pvp viable.


    Vapid Demographics

  7. #7
    Were those games like EVE where assets are only controlled by huge alliances and have automated NPC denfeses, games like Darkfall, where towns again are controlled by at minimum, a large clan, and you only have to repair them if they are "destroyed" rather than rebuilding from scratch, and you have to use up expensive items to do asset damage, or games like the Wild in Wurm where your bases are constantly protected by a bunch of NPC uberguards?

    In this game, there are no NPCs, and you can have 1 man homesteads. There is no starter area where players are safe before they are eased into the kind of chaotic PVP filled environment you find in these games. There is no word of special items needed for asset destruction, and items don't even have decay yet. So maybe, the largest tribes in the game would do ok. But we are not in the right conditions to allow asset destruction of any form yet, and the simple addition of gates won't change that.

  8. #8
    Death penalty... Meh.

    Wound system... Copy SWG's wound and wound healing mechanics, as well as the Battle Fatigue system.

    Raph Koster is much smarter game system-wise than this entire forum put together.

    P.S. -

    I'm starting to think you're xpiher from Darkfall. If so... Oh jeezus (not a good thing).

  9. #9
    If you've met me on another game, 90% chance the name was Andius. 100% chance on Darkfall.

    And I know nothing about SWG, I did not get the chance to play it before they ruined it. I however have used a wound system similar to what I am suggesting on Wurm, and it was the most fun healing people I have ever had in a game.

  10. #10
    How about if you die the person who killed gets a dollar from your bank account.

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