The problem with private bins outside of homes

[Aramanu]

if we all place hundreds of thousands of bins maybe the server will crash and they can do somthing about it. >_>

[r0ss0]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

That was me! (neighbour) Thanks again

[Book]

If I understand correctly, I think there are two separate issues here:
1) Public storage bins left just about anywhere remaining private forever (unless that player character is deleted which currently resets those bins to public... EDIT: right so now I can't reproduce how this happened last time... but I was able to access my old bags with a different toon so... workin' on it.)
2) Bags a player carries being completely lootable upon death, no matter what.

These are two different issues are they not? Perhaps there is something within the code that makes it the same issue programatically, that I don't know.

1) sure, storage bins left outside could have limited time on them to allow someone to get some work done, but not forever.

2) making bags someone is carrying completely lootable, I think, would have very bad consequences for the game in the long run. Players will be less likely to go out to trade their items if there is a high chance they will lose the product on the way, or the profit on the way back. Those with greater strength would essentially never really have to work for anything. Wait by an open junkpile for someone else to do all the work. Bash over head, collect, rinse, repeat. Soon few people will scavenge. In the long run, while perhaps being realistic, it would get tiresome, unfun(it should be a word), and resulting in further population loss in general.

Please don't assume that just because some people wouldn't want to invite being flamed and insulted by disagreeing with #2 means you have the majority. It's unfun to anticipate being lambasted for one's legitimate opinion, and most folks wouldn't undertake the unfun.

oh, one other note, you'd be amazed how strong grass based products can be. I think it's was at the Met Museum in New York where I saw Samurai (or ancient Japanese at least) armor made of grass. Highly recommend checking out that exhibit if you're ever in the city. Back to topic, sorry...

[coca]

Baskets outside of tribe areas should decay in a day or two imo and be safe during this time, and when they break they should be public for 1 more day then should disappear. But before they implement anything like this I'd like to see the aligment system in place.

this does not adress the problem of combat dumping a locked box to prevent loss outside of your tribal area.. it also fails to prevent anyone from simply picking up the basket and dropping it right down to reset the timer ...

Sorry.. this just isn't acceptable.

[joexxxz]

agreed. Everything not in a tribe radius should be public

+1 Great point

[AlexTaldren]

If I understand correctly, I think there are two separate issues here:
1) Public storage bins left just about anywhere remaining private forever (unless that player character is deleted which currently resets those bins to public... tested)
2) Bags a player carries being completely lootable upon death, no matter what.

These are two different issues are they not? Perhaps there is something within the code that makes it the same issue programatically, that I don't know.

1) sure, storage bins left outside could have limited time on them to allow someone to get some work done, but not forever.

2) making bags someone is carrying completely lootable, I think, would have very bad consequences for the game in the long run. Players will be less likely to go out to trade their items if there is a high chance they will lose the product on the way, or the profit on the way back. Those with greater strength would essentially never really have to work for anything. Wait by an open junkpile for someone else to do all the work. Bash over head, collect, rinse, repeat. Soon few people will scavenge. In the long run, while perhaps being realistic, it would get tiresome, unfun(it should be a word), and resulting in further population loss in general.

Please don't assume that just because some people wouldn't want to invite being flamed and insulted by disagreeing with #2 means you have the majority. It's unfun to anticipate being lambasted for one's legitimate opinion, and most folks wouldn't undertake the unfun.

oh, one other note, you'd be amazed how strong grass based products can be. I think it's was at the Met Museum in New York where I saw Samurai (or ancient Japanese at least) armor made of grass. Highly recommend checking out that exhibit if you're ever in the city. Back to topic, sorry...

To address #2, you are aware the game was conceptualized and designed to be a full loot PvP system, right? The private pouches and packs are a bug, not a gameplay feature. The argument that population loss would occur if player-carried packs were lootable isn't completely invalid, but you have to understand the other side. If going outside of your area is "too risky" what's the difference between there being no risk? Either way, a player isn't motivated to do it.

Risk is the basic underlying factor for this game. Surviving after the apocalypse, scavenging for food and water, fighting of wild animals, mutants, and people who want to kill you for your stuff. Games like this are similar to profit/loss systems. If the system is all profit or all loss, it fails to be fun.

The risk is also what encourages player interaction. For example, if you have to haul a lot of heavy items, or plan to scavenge a lot, it would make sense to bring someone to help watch your back. And, even if you're a homesteader, you could reach out to nearby homesteader and see if they'd be willing to accompany you. That sounds way more fun then knowing that no matter what someone else does, they can't get the stuff I'm carrying in my pack.

[joexxxz]

I got into a long heated arguement last night about this "feature" I was told by 3 different devs this was an intended function..I could hardly believe it and thought I was going to be banned becuase I wouldn't let up on them. ... I was told it wasn't an exploit and was working as intended. It utterly pissed me off at the lack of concern or simple ignorance of who this is detrimental to the game. I asked the guides to please talk with devs for a definative answer on if this was an overlooked problem that might get future attention or if indeed it was intentional. I was told they have went over it with me already to basically stop asking about it.

Essentially no one has any reason to make a tribe if they can drop private baskets where ever they want. I understand that basket permissions are required and a good idea.. however all baskts carried outside of a tribal area should auto defualt themselves to public property.

It is blatently manipulating the game mechanics and in my opinion a true exploit. I was told that to combat this all I have to do is drop a totem and claim it as mine. Well thats horse shit. Why should I risk my property to gain access to items that are in unclaimed lands. How is making safezones ouside of you tribe a good thing?

I also have seen people using this tactic to aviod being killed while harvesting.. again this is blatantly manipulating game mechanics to avoid the possibility of being killed with items on you while in an open setting.



Along those notes I have also had people that I've faught drop a totems in the middle of a fight to give them self invulnerability when we are both low... then I have to run like hell away becuase I cannot hit them any longer.



Added after 6 minutes:

If you find a basket in the wilderness are you saying it should be locked in unable for anyone to pick up? I'll be damned.. If I'm out in the world and I find something.. I found it.. there is no mysterious force around that object that disallows me from opening it or moving it. Go put a random container in your street full of stuff and see how long it is before someone grabs it.
To prevent this from happening, you keep your shit in your house or yard you don't leave it out. Iif you do leave it out in the public you have abandoned it.....

100 % AGREE WITH YOU.
The reason why baskets are private on public property is of Shinra tribe. Which is no longer exists. They asked the DEV to temporary fix this way back in JUL 2010. When the game was still being tested, someone was messing around with baskets, and few of the people spoke with Jordi about fixing it temporary.

[Jadzia]

this does not adress the problem of combat dumping a locked box to prevent loss outside of your tribal area.. it also fails to prevent anyone from simply picking up the basket and dropping it right down to reset the timer ...

Sorry.. this just isn't acceptable.

Xsyon was never meant to be full loot without limitation. Only evil players are supposed to be allowed to full loot others but in return they get several penalties for being evil. So the private baskets outside of safe zones are totally acceptable till they implement the aligment system. These 2 things are connected, while one of them is not working the other one shouldn't work either.

[joexxxz]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

You probably live in a cave. lol lol

[coca]

Scared for your pre-order weapon? And runing around naked is also your sacred cow?

I do not understand your refrences to pre-order weapons. and being naked? I never travel naked and although I do use a preorder dagger in one hand the other hand usually has a combat shanks or a bear tooth blade. I don't worry about fighting or possibly being killed its a fun part of the game.