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  1. #1

    Counting Coup (Warning! Wall of Text)

    Counting Coup

    One of the ways some Native Americans had to control excessive violence and deaths in combat in real life was to provide nonlethal challenges for proving one's prowess.

    I think something like this could work very nicely to control griefing or lopsided pvp fights in Xsyon based on the setting and the development of the game I have seen so far. Since it's a game, we can make is a bit darker but still have much the same effect.


    Coup would be rewarded for several things.

    1) Winning an engagement against a player of higher skill.
    2) Hitting a player with equal or higher combat skill, doing damage, then escaping and never taking damage yourself.
    3) Sneaking into an enemy tribal area and taking a coup counter from their standard/totem/whatever Xsyon calls the village center.
    4) Taking pride from noncombatants outside village limits.


    It probably looks pretty odd straight off, especially part four, but please bear with me.


    The whole purpose of this idea is to encourage PVP between players of roughly equal skill, or where the aggressor is the lower skill player. It would establish a ranking system for both PVP and Crafting.

    Counting Coup would have zero impact during wartime, positively or negatively.

    How it would work, roughly?

    1) Give Coup to players who perform challenging PVP activity, and take Coup away from those who PVP against relatively weak targets.

    2) Coup CANNOT be lost in PVP unless a player starts a fight with a significantly weaker player. Coup would NOT be lost by the stronger player if a weaker player attacks them first.

    3) Group combat Coup rules would have to be thought through carefully. Several fairly low skill PVP players should not gain huge amounts of Coup for managing to kill off a single player only moderately higher skilled than they are individually, but if a single player manages to drive off a pack of slightly lower skill players, they should get a significant Coup reward.

    4) Allow Coup to be redeemed for items/perks/resources. Coup would be spent like currency at a special shop/NPC. When it is used to buy something, it is transferred to the seller of the item, and you must re-earn it. Your PVP rank would drop if you chose to redeem Coup (you have to prove you aren't getting fat and slow when the other players see you sporting a nice new piece of armor)

    5) Allow crafters to provide rewards to supplement the standard rewards offered.

    6) Give crafters Pride points for providing rewards for the Coup system, based on how much Coup is used to buy the items.

    7) Allow PVP players to take half the current Pride total of a crafter rather than killing them, if the crafter finds their way into an unwanted PVP situation. This pride would add directly to the PVP player's Coup. If a crafter feels that he can win the fight, and chooses to fight, it is handled as a standard Coup engagement.

    8) The player provided coup rewards would be bought in an auction style, and the crafter would have zero control of the cost/value of the item. If an item sits for more than a week without being bid on, it is returned to the crafter.

    9) The coup paid by the winning bidder is added to the Pride of the crafter.

    10) Having a high level of Pride would offer modest bonuses for crafting.

    11) Having a high level of Coup would offer modest bonuses for combat.

    12 It is possible to have both Pride and Coup.

    13) Coup and Pride would recycle but have a sink. The NPC offered Coup rewards would have a static price, and be limited to basic equipment and raw materials, some of which might be high value, but not directly useful in a fight.


    So what would this do?

    It would encourage PVP. It would encourage crafting. It would encourage Crafters to provide rewards to PVPers, and encourage PVPers to avoid lopsided fights and seek out challenging fights.

    Yes, it almost certainly needs tweaking, but from what I'm seeing of the game's flavor, it would fit.

  2. #2

    Re:Counting Coup (Warning! Wall of Text)

    I think this might be a good start towards something better than a simple alignment system but I have some questions.

    Can a character with no coup still attack or kill another character? If so what is the penalty for having no coup?

    How would relative combat skill ranking be determined and displayed?

    Leader of Ancient Embers at ancientembers.net

  3. #3

    Re:Counting Coup (Warning! Wall of Text)

    Oakstead wrote:
    I think this might be a good start towards something better than a simple alignment system but I have some questions.

    Can a character with no coup still attack or kill another character? If so what is the penalty for having no coup?

    How would relative combat skill ranking be determined and displayed?
    Coup could conceivably go negative, and negative combat bonuses as well.

    How to display it? Not sure. Perhaps a sidebar when you can see someone and identify them?

    There would be two PVP rankings, one for raw skills, the other is your coup count. The raw skill ranking would be what is used to determine coup gain. The coup count will vary as players buy stuff from the coup NPC/store.

    I Don't think it is a good idea to try to provide too many details and overcomplicate the suggestion. It's already a bit more complex than I like. Generally the Devs of a game have a better idea how to actually implement ideas than the forum folks.

  4. #4

    Re:Counting Coup (Warning! Wall of Text)

    Games become pvp gank fests when they have limited content and almost nothing else to do. I wouldn’t mind this idea being implemented.

  5. #5

    Re:Counting Coup (Warning! Wall of Text)

    Personally...I'd rather they implement all of the features that have been listed and teased.

    If they open up to 3 character slots like had been mentioned earlier, I'm sure many people will have a "mule" character and the support of their tribe... so the crafted rewards will be next to worthless, thereby negating the incentive for "fair play".

    Secondly, this sounds somewhat similar to what WoW and Warhammer did with it's pvp. It just turns into another (potentially exploitable)grind.

    And finally, if the bonuses were too large it would imbalance pvp making it harder for smaller clans to gain coup. Since they would be starting any battle with two disadvantages, numbers and coup bonuses.

  6. #6

    Re:Counting Coup (Warning! Wall of Text)

    HamsterofDoom wrote:
    Personally...I'd rather they implement all of the features that have been listed and teased.

    If they open up to 3 character slots like had been mentioned earlier, I'm sure many people will have a "mule" character and the support of their tribe... so the crafted rewards will be next to worthless, thereby negating the incentive for "fair play".

    Secondly, this sounds somewhat similar to what WoW and Warhammer did with it's pvp. It just turns into another (potentially exploitable)grind.

    And finally, if the bonuses were too large it would imbalance pvp making it harder for smaller clans to gain coup. Since they would be starting any battle with two disadvantages, numbers and coup bonuses.
    I hope they do not open more than 1 slot, and I hope they have a truly challenging crafting system based on work rather than luck.

    It's possible that other game mechanics could weaken a coup system, but from what I've seen so far, nothing would prevent it from working. Nobody has seen the crafting system actually operate yet.

    Making crafting difficult to master and making at least some resources valuable would certainly keep the Coup system outlined above viable. If not, well, what is listed above is not a blueprint, it's a framework. Nothing to keep the devs from taking a bit here or there.

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