Safe place or not?

[NorCalGooey]

Thats the idea, is to stop the random solo, or small group of greifers from attacking your town and causing damage for no reason. Only people really wanting to put effort into taking out your town will do it.

You talk about the terraformed walls etc. Great idea for defense, but there will be a way in, and likely will be a gate. If they didnt have this reverse mushroom effect of HP, they would take out a gate pretty fast. If they made gates have like 100x hp over all other stuff, then everyone would be FORCED to build walls in 1 special way. That's not good either.

I believe once archer, and ranged combat comes in, new tactics on building walls will be more effective than what you are saying here. At which time the system I said, would have even more of an effect.

All in all the overall point is the same.
Random solo / small group raiders wouldnt want to attack a town. Only groups with tactics and planning will want to expend that type of effort.

It's just how it's going to have to be because of how dirt walls operate. No one can go through them or take them down. Therefore the only entrance is the area where there is no terraformed wall, which will have a gate when they are added. It's not really forcing people to build one certain way. Tribes who don't have terraformed walls will be able to be taken down from any angle. Regardless if there is a spirit protection or not, once they penetrated that they would have to attack the gate.

Unless they add ladders or siege towers.

Thats the idea, is to stop the random solo, or small group of greifers from attacking your town and causing damage for no reason. Only people really wanting to put effort into taking out your town will do it.

You talk about the terraformed walls etc. Great idea for defense, but there will be a way in, and likely will be a gate. If they didnt have this reverse mushroom effect of HP, they would take out a gate pretty fast. If they made gates have like 100x hp over all other stuff, then everyone would be FORCED to build walls in 1 special way. That's not good either.

I believe once archer, and ranged combat comes in, new tactics on building walls will be more effective than what you are saying here. At which time the system I said, would have even more of an effect.

All in all the overall point is the same.
Random solo / small group raiders wouldnt want to attack a town. Only groups with tactics and planning will want to expend that type of effort.

It's just how it's going to have to be because of how dirt walls operate. No one can go through them or take them down. Therefore the only entrance is the area where there is no terraformed wall, which will have a gate when they are added. It's not really forcing people to build one certain way. Tribes who don't have terraformed walls will be able to be taken down from any angle. Regardless if there is a spirit protection or not, once they penetrated that they would have to attack the gate.

Unless they add ladders or siege towers.

I've double posted my last 5 posts, wtf is wrong with this forum lol

[PeonSanders911]

Add gates....then make it safe for your belongings....

This game needs some PvP bad.........

[MrDDT]

It's just how it's going to have to be because of how dirt walls operate. No one can go through them or take them down. Therefore the only entrance is the area where there is no terraformed wall, which will have a gate when they are added. It's not really forcing people to build one certain way. Tribes who don't have terraformed walls will be able to be taken down from any angle. Regardless if there is a spirit protection or not, once they penetrated that they would have to attack the gate.

Unless they add ladders or siege towers.
I've double posted my last 5 posts, wtf is wrong with this forum lol

I agree, but shouldnt towns be attackable from all directions? Sure you can build a better way, but you are then forcing people to build your way, or make all walls so strong they cant be taken out in any amount of time at all.

Better would be to remove the need for these dirt walls and allow people to build walls how they choose based on the defense stats vs looks stats vs decay stats.
I would hate to see every town in the game built with dirt walls all around but for a gate in 1 spot, just because its the only option for defense.

IMO I think people should be able to climb dirt walls like they could in Wurm. Dirt walls shouldnt be the standard for defense. It should be more resource needed walls that take more skill and time. Dirt walls take 0 skill and only take dirt to build, a resource that's not limited in anyway.

[NorCalGooey]

Ladders or climbing dirt walls would work

[Dubanka]

this just goes into seige mechanics...imo, the wall piece is the simplest.

earth < limestone < granite

it's like the 3 little pigs.

earth walls, fast easy to put up, will do short term, or in a pinch...but watch out for that big bad wolf.

limestone...bit more of a pita, but easy (mostly) to get the materials (limestone), wolf has to blow a bit harder (more extensive seige equipment), but goes down with quite a bit of huffing and puffing from mr. wolf.

granite...harder to get ahold of, not rare, but...who lives on a mountain? walls are the most durrable and would require serious seige equipment to breach.

but of course, this would require having that whole other part of the game that doesnt exist, and wont for...a year? maybe? to have a point.

[ArrakisTheDragon]

By Siege equipment you mean my Bedpost Pick right? LOL j/k, Im sure theres more items on the way.

The problem with safe zones in any game is it lets the carebear diaperboy jump back and forth between the safe zone and pvp zone, taunting other players as you may put it or as MrDDT mentioned before, lets them hunt your mobs, take your resources, cut your trees and you cant do anything about it because....there is a safe zone preventing you from killing them. If it takes a person a month to build something...then dont build it. If it takes you hours to aquire resources to craft some item that can be lost in pvp....then dont craft it unless you want to put forth the effort and the time but it can be lost in the end to pvp. Otherwise whatever "rare" item you claim to craft just sits in a basket and rots without use, the same thing thats plagued Darkfall for so long.

My view of items that are hard to craft or take rare resources is they are meant to be lost, they are meant to be used because eventually they will break regardless due to durability loss or item decay. A sandbox game isnt something where little boy Jimmy can build a sandcastle and then but a protective forcefield around it to keep others from destroying it, a sandbox game is something where you can build a wonder yes...but it can utmost certainly be destroyed as well. Protective zones defeat the purpose of a sandbox game just plain and simple, no "buts" no "ifs" no "should be this or should be thats" its just the end of the line period.

For new players however.......
The inner most zones of the maps should be off limits pvp but.... anything gathered, mined, logged, caught, built will not have a quality above moderate and will have crappy durability. This way some of the diaperboy/diapergirl carebears will advance a level to big boy/girl pullups or even underwear and go beyond the safe zones to find the rare resources or higher quality materials and join a clan. This is the best crawl before walk, walk before running system I can think of and IMO.

NPC players should be in each newbie spawn zone to offer simple quests according to what skills the player takes at the beginning, giving them quick run-down of how the mechanics work in the game. Upon completion of all quests a player will be expected to "leave" or "graduate" from the newbie zone into the non-protected zones of the game. Failing to complete the last quest bars the player from being able to craft anything above a certain skill level or use a certain item. However, high quality items from the outside can be given to the newbie players in safe zones but still, anything crafted, caught, built etc in newbie zones will not go above moderate quality or moderately low durability. This way we can give the diaperbears a decent tool that will last longer then the crappy stuff that they can only make in the protected areas.

Totems should not be allowed to be placed in the newbie zones period. This defeats the purpose of tribal territories and the potential possibilities of taking lands from another tribe. The only place of safety should be homesteads (one player tribal zones) but even they are fully safe. The totem could have a "refresh timer" on it with possibly needing or not needing a resource to refresh its timer, once the timer is up anyone can come and free loot all your stuff in the zone. Homesteads should be more like the housing in DF with the exception that you can build it anywhere. If you want to protect yourself inside your homestead you can build for ex: a wooden wall surrounding it with a simple gate. That way you can run in, lock the gate and bank your loot before they break the door/gate down and kill you inside the homestead. Remember, as long as your totem is "refreshed" on a homestead, they cant loot from your bins/bags that are on the ground in this area, however if your killed by someone in this area its free game to the items that were on your person when you died.

All bins and pouches should drop upon death, your inventory filling the empty slots inside the bins/ pouches. If no such room is available a sack "aka-a grave" should instantly appear upon player death will all lootable items inside of it. Newbie zones are excluded from this. Would be cool if its a pile of bones or a skeleton for player graves and make them disappear over x-amt of time instead of server reset like in other games. That way it reduces enviromental clutter to the game if the graves decay naturally.

[Mactavendish]

In other words, what I am hearing here is you guys dont want to be forced to do something any way but the way YOU like it and the game needs to be changed to match your vision.

I am totally sure it would make the game what you guys want, but there is a reason why people have also stopped playing DF or MO... bored with the same old same old.

It really kills my how you can spout words like diaperboy and carebear. Do you not realize how immature and childish it makes you sound? It does not take any courage at all to gank a newbie "carebear". It takes no character whatsoever to gang up 3 on 1 to kill someone minding their own business. What you are representing here is not skilled players, but schoolyard bullies that have no real personal worth at all.

[MrDDT]

In other words, what I am hearing here is you guys dont want to be forced to do something any way but the way YOU like it and the game needs to be changed to match your vision.

I am totally sure it would make the game what you guys want, but there is a reason why people have also stopped playing DF or MO... bored with the same old same old.

It really kills my how you can spout words like diaperboy and carebear. Do you not realize how immature and childish it makes you sound? It does not take any courage at all to gank a newbie "carebear". It takes no character whatsoever to gang up 3 on 1 to kill someone minding their own business. What you are representing here is not skilled players, but schoolyard bullies that have no real personal worth at all.

You must have missed the part where he said there should be a safe starting area for newbies. Or dont care to talk about that?

What he posted isnt something I would say is right 100%. I believe in safe areas for people that are carebears. But it should yield more rewards for people on contested areas. Its really that simple.

[Drevar]

If a player is only going to be allowed to experience 30% of the game due to the way they choose to play, then they should only be required to pay 30% of the monthly sub fee.

I don't get how a certain play style should be given more incentives orrewards for choosing to do what they supposedly say they like to do. Usuallyyou give incentives for people to do stuff they normally wouldn't, not theother way around.

From this week's answered questions:
3. When will pvp incentives be added.
The incentives for pvp are to gain loot and improve combat skills. If you have other incentives in mind, please submit a suggestion.

While he is open to suggestions, it looks like the intent is to put mechanics in placefor you to have fun, NOT to create a final, concrete goal that you can point to and say, “We won, you suck!” You will have to decide your own goal, and your own winning conditions.
I can already tell you that holding on to a rareresource spawn isn’t going to be enough for you. So you hold a node of magical ju-ju berriesfor 6 months? Is that really going togive you the satisfaction that you want?

All of my previous experience in other games as well as reading the responses here tells me that the only reward you guys enjoy is IMPOSING your will on others, whether it’s by conquest or politics orwhatever. All the tools and game gimmicks in the world won’t mean anything if you can’t force the other side into some situation against their will. That’s why attacking and harassing “carebears”is so rewarding. No one else is more vehemently opposed to some douchebag forcing them to fight or destroying their work than the non-PvP crafters.
In the end, once all the big forts are built up and all the rare stuff is claimed, you guys are going to be reduced to raiding/sieging for the lulz, since the results won’t have any meaning in the game for you. 2 years from now, are you still going to be having great fun zerging the same 6 guys over some rare plant spawn? I doubt it.

Please prove me wrong. Please tell me what goals you have that won’t be accomplished in 1 – 3 months, leaving you dead bored and crying for more reasons to PvP. And also tell what sets that long-term goal apart as being not able to accomplish it in a non-contested zone.
This game is meant to evolve over a very, very longtime. All of my objections to many of these PvP oriented sub-systems (not PvP, itself) is that the mind-set of most of those who will partake of them will only be entertained for the short-term, yet a lot of dev time is going to be spent on them vs. those of us who intend to stay for years, if the situation allows us to.

[MrDDT]

If a player is only going to be allowed to experience 30% of the game due to the way they choose to play, then they should only be required to pay 30% of the monthly sub fee.

I don't get how a certain play style should be given more incentives orrewards for choosing to do what they supposedly say they like to do. Usuallyyou give incentives for people to do stuff they normally wouldn't, not theother way around.

From this week's answered questions:
3. When will pvp incentives be added.
The incentives for pvp are to gain loot and improve combat skills. If you have other incentives in mind, please submit a suggestion.

While he is open to suggestions, it looks like the intent is to put mechanics in placefor you to have fun, NOT to create a final, concrete goal that you can point to and say, “We won, you suck!” You will have to decide your own goal, and your own winning conditions.
I can already tell you that holding on to a rareresource spawn isn’t going to be enough for you. So you hold a node of magical ju-ju berriesfor 6 months? Is that really going togive you the satisfaction that you want?

All of my previous experience in other games as well as reading the responses here tells me that the only reward you guys enjoy is IMPOSING your will on others, whether it’s by conquest or politics orwhatever. All the tools and game gimmicks in the world won’t mean anything if you can’t force the other side into some situation against their will. That’s why attacking and harassing “carebears”is so rewarding. No one else is more vehemently opposed to some douchebag forcing them to fight or destroying their work than the non-PvP crafters.
In the end, once all the big forts are built up and all the rare stuff is claimed, you guys are going to be reduced to raiding/sieging for the lulz, since the results won’t have any meaning in the game for you. 2 years from now, are you still going to be having great fun zerging the same 6 guys over some rare plant spawn? I doubt it.

Please prove me wrong. Please tell me what goals you have that won’t be accomplished in 1 – 3 months, leaving you dead bored and crying for more reasons to PvP. And also tell what sets that long-term goal apart as being not able to accomplish it in a non-contested zone.
This game is meant to evolve over a very, very longtime. All of my objections to many of these PvP oriented sub-systems (not PvP, itself) is that the mind-set of most of those who will partake of them will only be entertained for the short-term, yet a lot of dev time is going to be spent on them vs. those of us who intend to stay for years, if the situation allows us to.

I think you are missing the point, for PVPers the content is the PVP. They just need a reason to do it. A great reason is better gear, and fame. Also rewards like DAoC does with realm points, Aion does it also. Where you can use these points to build PVP skills or PVP gear.

PVPers dont need content in the fact of a ton of new monsters to kill or dungeons to fight in. They want to claim king of the hill and that hill be worth something to someone else, so that someone else will want to take the hill from them.

PVPers also want an open world of PVP so that, if you steal from one of their friends, they can go burn your hut down. Not a system where you turn grey for 2mins and then you are blue and cant be attacked.