Quality Testing

[ocoma]

I wanted to start a thread for all quality testing in one place for easier access.

Now that we have tooltips and quality ratings people will want to make the best quality products that they can. The quality of a finished product is dependant on the quality of the mats used to produce it. While some quality ratings are easy to determine what effects them, some may not be quite so easy.

First off the quality of resources harvested through the resource tab varies...both before and after sorting. I just confirmed with Deacon in /s by each of us harvesting some scrap metal than sorting it down. Below are my stats and skills that may effect listed and the results of some real quick harvesting and sorting.

Stats:
47 Str, 50 Fort, 49 Agi, 55 Dex, 60 Int, 63 Per, 90 Charm, 89 Spirit

Skills:
59 Fishing, 20 Forage, 6 Hunting, 6 Logging, 90 Scaveging
5 ea Basket/Bone/Fire/Leather, 25 Tailor, 100 Tool, 5 Weapon, 13 Wood, 12 Mason

Harvest Results:
Scrap Metal - Moderate unsorted...Moderate to Very High sorted
Scrap Leather - Poor unsorted...High to Very High sorted
Scrap Cloth - Moderate unsorted...High to Very High sorted
Scrap Plastic - Moderate unsorted...Very High sorted
Granite - Low

Anyone who can please post your stats/skills and results with harvesting.

Anyone who needs use this thread to request other quality tests and I"ll be happy to supply results I can.

Edit: Deacon's results-
Scrap Metal - Low unsorted...Poor to Moderate sorted
On a hunch I asked his Scavenging which was 7.

[Azhul_NS]

Does quality have any effect?

[ocoma]

Does quality have any effect?

If I'm making a Pioneer's Master Chisel it requires a small wood handle, metal rod, and leather straps the quality of the finished tool is supposedly dependant on my Toolcraft skill and the quality of each individual item used to make the tool. That means for the above tool I'd need max or near max of each of the following to make a max quality tool:
Max logger to cut the log
Max woodcrafter to make the log into a small handle
Max scavenger to find the metal rod, or max whichever skill effects sorting of scrap metal to produce it...I personally think its still governed by scavenging but that needs testing to confirm
Max Leathercrafter to harvest the leather and then make leather straps out of that leather...this is guessing that the quality of leather provided from scrap leather sorting is determined by Leathercrafting skill
Finally a max level Toolcrafter can take all those Supreme/Master quality mats(whichever is higher Supreme or Master) and make a Supreme/Master quality Pioneer's Master Chisel

Edit: Oops forgot to add I'd also need a max quality Hammer and Pliers to make that tool with too.

It is believed but not yet confirmed the quality of the finished item will determine how much use it gets before it decays and is destroyed.


Double Edit: @Temur in reference to my player testing thread in the suggestions forum section...This is why the ability to change stats and skills on demand is needed for player testing. With multiple variables effecting things the only way to properly test is to change one variable at a time and keep repeating the same thing over and again and compare the results...only working with 1 variable does not allow you to compare the differences.

[Drevar]

Need to be very careful sorting. You may sort a Master item out and then the next time you will sort out a High or Very High which will autostack with the Master one and drop the entire stack down to the new item's level. Manually combining stacks works the same. You can ruin a huge pile of rivets, etc. with a single lower quality rivet.

As far as qualities, I am able to pull up Very High quality branches off the ground with 87 foraging, 100 woodworking, 55 logging (not sure which one is used.)
55 logging and a poor axe yields Moderate to Very High logs, which turn into Very High woodworking items with low tools.
76 Masonry gets me Very High level gathered rock..haven't tried sand yet, is probably the same.

Stats are 75 Str, 78 Dex, 66 Int, 63 Per, 49 Charm/Spirit.

Edit: I am hoping some resources are quality capped, else there is no reason to use the harder to make items. Why gather 5+ Master level components when you can gather 1 Master granite or plastic and make a Master quality tool out of it?

[ocoma]

Need to be very careful sorting. You may sort a Master item out and then the next time you will sort out a High or Very High which will autostack with the Master one and drop the entire stack down to the new item's level. Manually combining stacks works the same. You can ruin a huge pile of rivets, etc. with a single lower quality rivet.

As far as qualities, I am able to pull up Very High quality branches off the ground with 87 foraging, 100 woodworking, 55 logging (not sure which one is used.)
55 logging and a poor axe yields Moderate to Very High logs, which turn into Very High woodworking items with low tools.
76 Masonry gets me Very High level gathered rock..haven't tried sand yet, is probably the same.

Stats are 75 Str, 78 Dex, 66 Int, 63 Per, 49 Charm/Spirit.

Edit: I am hoping some resources are quality capped, else there is no reason to use the harder to make items. Why gather 5+ Master level components when you can gather 1 Master granite or plastic and make a Master quality tool out of it?

Different quality items stacking has been bug reported and hopefully will be fixed. From the quick testing I did to confirm that it seems if you have 2 different quality stacks and combine them, the final stack will all be to quality of the stack you did NOT physically move...ie if a high quality stack is dropped onto a moderate quality stack, regardless of which stack has more the final stack will be moderate quality.

As to the branches, not having enough data yet I agree the quality of those could be governed by any of those 3 skills...I dont have any branches nearby I can harvest so I'll take a run and try to do a quick check myself. All three of those skills for me are way lower than yours so I should see much lower quality branches.

I was guessing masonry for rock harvesting and your data seems to validate that.

Where are you located, I can make you some higher level tools if you wanna try those and see if it changes the quality of your woodworking items even higher.

Edit: I'm ingame now and will be for hours though off and on afk, anyone who needs help with some testing of something give a PM to OcO

[Umirshand]

Very informative thread indeed ty for your hard work

[ocoma]

I just tried making a Pioneer's Master Chisel using poor/low quality mats and moderate quality tools and it came out a high quality chisel. This would suggest maybe that the skill level of the crafter is the single most important factor in determining final product quality.

Is there anyone with low level toolcraft that has the Pioneer's Master Chisel recipe and can make one to test the final quality of the finished product.

If the tool itself has a minimum quality level thats fine, however if turns out that the skill level can override the quality of the mats by that much I think that may be a bit to much.

[oneyedwang]

It is believed but not yet confirmed the quality of the finished item will determine how much use it gets before it decays and is destroyed.

IIRC Decay has a separate mouse over unless they plan on changing decay all together when they implement it.

[ocoma]

IIRC Decay has a separate mouse over unless they plan on changing decay all together when they implement it.

Good to know, but the amount of decay could still be dependant on the quality.

I just looked through our tool stock and found a low quality Pioneer's Master Chisel which means the tool itself does not have a minimum quality level. Then I did a repeat of the test I just posted above with the following mats:
Poor quality - pliers, hammer, leather strap, and handle
Low quality - metal rod
Final result was a High quality Chisel again.

Time for discussion - The skill level of the crafter is the single biggest factor in the resulting quality of a finished product and overrides mats used greatly. Imo crafter's skill level should cap the possible resulting quality but should NOT directly determine it to the extent it does. In the above example with my 100 Toolcraft I'd say it should let me make the final product equal to the single low quality item used or maybe 1 step higher than the average of the mats used. If the mats I used were averaged that would come out to poor quality, 1 step up would still have been low. If the ratio of mats used had been reversed and the average came out to low, I could make a moderate tool.

Thoughts?

[orious13]

First off I like this thread...so don't misunderstand.

Double Edit: @Temur in reference to my player testing thread in the suggestions forum section...This is why the ability to change stats and skills on demand is needed for player testing. With multiple variables effecting things the only way to properly test is to change one variable at a time and keep repeating the same thing over and again and compare the results...only working with 1 variable does not allow you to compare the differences.

I just disagree with this. The veil on stats and how they effect indirect things is good for the game. There might be underlying balance issues (as there will always be regardless), but now that the game is live, I think the testing you're doing now is exactly what should be part of the game ie. trying to figure out how much wood quality effects handles vs the tools used. Just because it says high quality does it mean that all high quality versions are really the same or are there variations within? If it was still beta...as in not launched... I'd say otherwise. I'd also say otherwise if this game was a number game. It's kind of the same reasoning as understanding why you can't see numbers on your health bar and how Fortitude really effects your stamina other then just increasing it. You strike me as a min/maxer, but the current "find out with no numbers" strategy they are using makes it very very hard to min and max. I think that's good (and kind of think it's done on purpose)...especially if the quality labeling is really just the labeling for ranges of values.