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  1. #1

    Quality Testing

    I wanted to start a thread for all quality testing in one place for easier access.

    Now that we have tooltips and quality ratings people will want to make the best quality products that they can. The quality of a finished product is dependant on the quality of the mats used to produce it. While some quality ratings are easy to determine what effects them, some may not be quite so easy.

    First off the quality of resources harvested through the resource tab varies...both before and after sorting. I just confirmed with Deacon in /s by each of us harvesting some scrap metal than sorting it down. Below are my stats and skills that may effect listed and the results of some real quick harvesting and sorting.

    Stats:
    47 Str, 50 Fort, 49 Agi, 55 Dex, 60 Int, 63 Per, 90 Charm, 89 Spirit

    Skills:
    59 Fishing, 20 Forage, 6 Hunting, 6 Logging, 90 Scaveging
    5 ea Basket/Bone/Fire/Leather, 25 Tailor, 100 Tool, 5 Weapon, 13 Wood, 12 Mason

    Harvest Results:
    Scrap Metal - Moderate unsorted...Moderate to Very High sorted
    Scrap Leather - Poor unsorted...High to Very High sorted
    Scrap Cloth - Moderate unsorted...High to Very High sorted
    Scrap Plastic - Moderate unsorted...Very High sorted
    Granite - Low

    Anyone who can please post your stats/skills and results with harvesting.

    Anyone who needs use this thread to request other quality tests and I"ll be happy to supply results I can.

    Edit: Deacon's results-
    Scrap Metal - Low unsorted...Poor to Moderate sorted
    On a hunch I asked his Scavenging which was 7.

  2. #2
    Does quality have any effect?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhul_NS View Post
    Does quality have any effect?
    If I'm making a Pioneer's Master Chisel it requires a small wood handle, metal rod, and leather straps the quality of the finished tool is supposedly dependant on my Toolcraft skill and the quality of each individual item used to make the tool. That means for the above tool I'd need max or near max of each of the following to make a max quality tool:
    Max logger to cut the log
    Max woodcrafter to make the log into a small handle
    Max scavenger to find the metal rod, or max whichever skill effects sorting of scrap metal to produce it...I personally think its still governed by scavenging but that needs testing to confirm
    Max Leathercrafter to harvest the leather and then make leather straps out of that leather...this is guessing that the quality of leather provided from scrap leather sorting is determined by Leathercrafting skill
    Finally a max level Toolcrafter can take all those Supreme/Master quality mats(whichever is higher Supreme or Master) and make a Supreme/Master quality Pioneer's Master Chisel

    Edit: Oops forgot to add I'd also need a max quality Hammer and Pliers to make that tool with too.

    It is believed but not yet confirmed the quality of the finished item will determine how much use it gets before it decays and is destroyed.


    Double Edit: @Temur in reference to my player testing thread in the suggestions forum section...This is why the ability to change stats and skills on demand is needed for player testing. With multiple variables effecting things the only way to properly test is to change one variable at a time and keep repeating the same thing over and again and compare the results...only working with 1 variable does not allow you to compare the differences.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ocoma View Post
    It is believed but not yet confirmed the quality of the finished item will determine how much use it gets before it decays and is destroyed.
    IIRC Decay has a separate mouse over unless they plan on changing decay all together when they implement it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by oneyedwang View Post
    IIRC Decay has a separate mouse over unless they plan on changing decay all together when they implement it.
    Good to know, but the amount of decay could still be dependant on the quality.

    I just looked through our tool stock and found a low quality Pioneer's Master Chisel which means the tool itself does not have a minimum quality level. Then I did a repeat of the test I just posted above with the following mats:
    Poor quality - pliers, hammer, leather strap, and handle
    Low quality - metal rod
    Final result was a High quality Chisel again.

    Time for discussion - The skill level of the crafter is the single biggest factor in the resulting quality of a finished product and overrides mats used greatly. Imo crafter's skill level should cap the possible resulting quality but should NOT directly determine it to the extent it does. In the above example with my 100 Toolcraft I'd say it should let me make the final product equal to the single low quality item used or maybe 1 step higher than the average of the mats used. If the mats I used were averaged that would come out to poor quality, 1 step up would still have been low. If the ratio of mats used had been reversed and the average came out to low, I could make a moderate tool.

    Thoughts?

  6. #6
    First off I like this thread...so don't misunderstand.

    Quote Originally Posted by ocoma View Post
    Double Edit: @Temur in reference to my player testing thread in the suggestions forum section...This is why the ability to change stats and skills on demand is needed for player testing. With multiple variables effecting things the only way to properly test is to change one variable at a time and keep repeating the same thing over and again and compare the results...only working with 1 variable does not allow you to compare the differences.
    I just disagree with this. The veil on stats and how they effect indirect things is good for the game. There might be underlying balance issues (as there will always be regardless), but now that the game is live, I think the testing you're doing now is exactly what should be part of the game ie. trying to figure out how much wood quality effects handles vs the tools used. Just because it says high quality does it mean that all high quality versions are really the same or are there variations within? If it was still beta...as in not launched... I'd say otherwise. I'd also say otherwise if this game was a number game. It's kind of the same reasoning as understanding why you can't see numbers on your health bar and how Fortitude really effects your stamina other then just increasing it. You strike me as a min/maxer, but the current "find out with no numbers" strategy they are using makes it very very hard to min and max. I think that's good (and kind of think it's done on purpose)...especially if the quality labeling is really just the labeling for ranges of values.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by orious13 View Post
    First off I like this thread...so don't misunderstand.



    I just disagree with this. The veil on stats and how they effect indirect things is good for the game. There might be underlying balance issues (as there will always be regardless), but now that the game is live, I think the testing you're doing now is exactly what should be part of the game ie. trying to figure out how much wood quality effects handles vs the tools used. Just because it says high quality does it mean that all high quality versions are really the same or are there variations within? If it was still beta...as in not launched... I'd say otherwise. I'd also say otherwise if this game was a number game. It's kind of the same reasoning as understanding why you can't see numbers on your health bar and how Fortitude really effects your stamina other then just increasing it. You strike me as a min/maxer, but the current "find out with no numbers" strategy they are using makes it very very hard to min and max. I think that's good (and kind of think it's done on purpose)...especially if the quality labeling is really just the labeling for ranges of values.
    I understand what you are saying and for the live server that is fine, and to a degree I agree. I'm not posting 100% of the data I've been collecting here just what is needed for comparision tests with others for the reasons you stated. Your qoute of me from the OP is related to the devs saying they wish for players to test upcoming patches on the test server especially the upcoming combat changes. Players can not do that properly without tools inplace for them to make real and accurate tests. I saw that you posted in the thread I mean so I'll leave this at that and we can discuss that further in that thread if you wish. This was not a dis on you or your opinion and I'm always down for real discussion.

    On the topic at hand what do you think of skill level completely overriding the mats being used and being the only real factor involved in determining the resulting quality levels of crafted products as I asked in the post right above you?

  8. #8
    It appears that the quality of crafted items currently depends on the level of the craft skill in relation to that recipe. The materials do not seem to make a difference. All the weapons I made tonight came out as "high quality" although I put different quality mats into the same recipe. At 30 basketry, I made medium quality thread and string, but low quality twine.

    One thing to remember is that with decay turned off, we can't see the condition of items. The materials may make a great deal of difference in the starting condition of an item. E.g. a master craftsman might make a "very high quality" item every time, but one made with poor/low quality mats would start as worn while one made of very high/master quality mats would start as pristine.

    Ravelli

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by orious13 View Post
    First off I like this thread...so don't misunderstand.



    I just disagree with this. The veil on stats and how they effect indirect things is good for the game. There might be underlying balance issues (as there will always be regardless), but now that the game is live, I think the testing you're doing now is exactly what should be part of the game ie. trying to figure out how much wood quality effects handles vs the tools used. Just because it says high quality does it mean that all high quality versions are really the same or are there variations within? If it was still beta...as in not launched... I'd say otherwise. I'd also say otherwise if this game was a number game. It's kind of the same reasoning as understanding why you can't see numbers on your health bar and how Fortitude really effects your stamina other then just increasing it. You strike me as a min/maxer, but the current "find out with no numbers" strategy they are using makes it very very hard to min and max. I think that's good (and kind of think it's done on purpose)...especially if the quality labeling is really just the labeling for ranges of values.
    Wurm had no problem giving very direct values and the game was better for it. Nothing pisses me off faster than a game not giving me numerical data and formulas for which I can base my crafting on. Nothing pisses me off faster than "guessing" what to do for 36 hours before "guessing" I did it the right way and then finding out a month later I wasn't doing it in the most optimal fashion for no good reason other than some dingus randomly happened upon an insane combo that wasn't based on anythung but dumb luck.

  10. #10
    Roth I can understand your point but many others are the other way.

    I do agree though when it comes to some things like stats. Which take months of playing to even change 1 to 10 points, its not something I want to really guess at over and over. I know people have put in over 200 hours in game and still not even gained 3 points in one of the stats they want.

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