Change to how "HIDING" works.

[MrDDT]

Well I was serious about the bear's bum, because I think that would be hilarious lol... but no, wasn't saying that should be the ONLY way to level anything. Variety is good. I don't mean variety in terms of other animals, that was just being facetious.

The only thing I'm not 100% on is moving faster while hiding. It's not so much that I'm thinking inside a box, or whatever can be said to dismiss what I'm saying... I just happen to think it would detract from hiding being a special skill one uses in specific circumstances. Differences of opinion are okay. No intention of changing your mind as I don't think that's possible, I'm just voicing what I think about it.

It's entirely realistic to be suspicious of someone wanting to make hiding more useful when the person suggesting it admittedly likes to kill people Would be silly not to give some thought to potential hidden agendas (pun not really intended).

In a way, that does require me to think outside my own box, as it requires me to think inside yours.

I have no doubt the primary use is going to be vs people, but that doesnt have to be so. Simple changes to AI, and how the system works (I hope for the best) would make it a skill that people can use. Biggest problem I see is that jumping something (or someone) doesnt give much of an advantage.
You might get 1 attack off of an animal before it hits you (Not that it matters because all animals in this game currently are weak), isnt very effective when its so easy already to kill.
But later, when and if secondary effects come into play (backstab? stun? special moves?) and stronger monsters (and players), then we might see a much greater effect for it in combat (before combat really).


Currently "walk" or "hiding" is very very slow, walk mode is never used by anyone I know nor seen. So you are effectively not only forcing people not to sprint while hiding, but also cutting their movement speed in 1/2 also. I normally sprint everywhere I go to a point where I rest or run a little. Why? Because its more effective. Sprint, rest, sprint rest, moves you places faster than running non stop does.
Try getting around in walk mode. Just for like 10mins or so. You will see how painful it will be, you couldnt really do anything, the effect of being hidden, is almost negated (and sometime would be totally negated) due to the extreme slow movement.
Whereas if you punished people for moving full speed (run speed) with heavy stamina decay, it will be doable but not sustainable. Which allows you to be effective but not overpowering.

Even so, I can understand your point and like I said balancing would be needed for it no matter one. The system doesnt break if you cant move at full run speed, but thought process is there for how to train it, and making it useful without having to be 90+ all the time.

[Yzandor]

Good thread on hiding MrDDT, only thing i dont agree is the speed...it should be kept slow even for those 100 hiding guys. But i could bring an ''in-between'' idea: Someone at 90 to 100 could be able to go full hiding (following what MrDDT proposed) with a slow speed, able to go between the slow speed and normal running speed but with a penalty to is hiding, and able to go normal running speed but with another penalty. That way, you still can go ''fast'' if ennemies are a certain distance of you and you want to make sure they dont see you, but if they are just around the corner, well, its only normal you have to go slow to be more effective and scoop them.

[MrDDT]

Good thread on hiding MrDDT, only thing i dont agree is the speed...it should be kept slow even for those 100 hiding guys. But i could bring an ''in-between'' idea: Someone at 90 to 100 could be able to go full hiding (following what MrDDT proposed) with a slow speed, able to go between the slow speed and normal running speed but with a penalty to is hiding, and able to go normal running speed but with another penalty. That way, you still can go ''fast'' if ennemies are a certain distance of you and you want to make sure they dont see you, but if they are just around the corner, well, its only normal you have to go slow to be more effective and scoop them.

Good idea.

I was thinking something along those lines but I couldnt work out how to best do it. I think that's a good idea.
Pretty much if you move faster, your hiding effect is lowered. (For all intends and purposes it would be like having 100 hiding, then running/sprinting would drop it down by 1/2 or 50 hiding.) Something like that.

[ColonelTEE3]

I don't know if hiding needs any improvements. Its quite balanced compared to who you're hiding from. A pvp-build with high combat stats and high perception deserves to see hiders better because they sacrificed points they could have put in Con, Str, Int, etc. They designed a character meant for seeking out people and fighting and i dont think that should be negated. Perception adds to your ability to hide, as well as your ability to detect it. If you have high perception, and high hiding, you will be very difficult to find to anyone who doesnt literally run into you, except for those who have a similar build as you. This gives a purpose to players who make "spotters" or "hunters" with their characters.

As far as speed goes -- i dont believe it needs much increase either. If we could run at normal run speed, while hiding, what reason would there ever be to go out exploring and not have Hide activated? Can you imagine how dumb it would be if 90% of the population running around xsyon was always in "hide" and we all just kept coming across more "ghost like" people? I kind of liked the idea of faster movement at the cost of reduced hiding. So maybe 100% effectiveness of your hide level when moving slowly, 50% while moving at run speed, something like that. I would be more amenable to that idea.

[MrDDT]

I don't know if hiding needs any improvements. Its quite balanced compared to who you're hiding from. A pvp-build with high combat stats and high perception deserves to see hiders better because they sacrificed points they could have put in Con, Str, Int, etc. They designed a character meant for seeking out people and fighting and i dont think that should be negated. Perception adds to your ability to hide, as well as your ability to detect it. If you have high perception, and high hiding, you will be very difficult to find to anyone who doesnt literally run into you, except for those who have a similar build as you. This gives a purpose to players who make "spotters" or "hunters" with their characters.

As far as speed goes -- i dont believe it needs much increase either. If we could run at normal run speed, while hiding, what reason would there ever be to go out exploring and not have Hide activated? Can you imagine how dumb it would be if 90% of the population running around xsyon was always in "hide" and we all just kept coming across more "ghost like" people? I kind of liked the idea of faster movement at the cost of reduced hiding. So maybe 100% effectiveness of your hide level when moving slowly, 50% while moving at run speed, something like that. I would be more amenable to that idea.

I already addressed this. I said how to make it so you wouldnt have hiding on 100% of the time. Just make it take energy while hiding, and faster movement. You can even make it take more than sprinting if you wanted to really make it worse off.

I think the better idea is like all 3 of us said. Make it more effective while moving slow, and less effective while going faster.

Well anyways, right now I dont see any use in using hiding in any fashion everyone I know that has trained it up never used it in the way it was meant to, and are very unimpressed with it. So I thought it needed a change to make it more useful.

I think really this will be a skill used for people to avoid fights than to start them. Without hiding I can sneak up on people pretty easy. If I were moving 100% of the time in hiding maybe I could see peoples point in PVP griefers but, I movement speed is very lacking there, would be more effective to run full speed non hiding, soon as you see someone drop into hide and hope they didnt see you.

As a defensive hiding skill, you see someone you can drop into hide, run away, til you find out more intel.
Also while running from an attacker, you drop around a corner, or building and hit into hiding mode and try to sneak off.

Just some of the uses while in defense IMO. Which would be used way more often IMO.

[Jadzia]

As a defensive hiding skill, you see someone you can drop into hide, run away, til you find out more intel.
Also while running from an attacker, you drop around a corner, or building and hit into hiding mode and try to sneak off.

That would be plain stupid, seriously. Just imagine a PKer attacks someone, and the victim hits a button and disappears...lol. You'd better implement PvP flagging then, that would be less frustrating.

[MrDDT]

That would be plain stupid, seriously. Just imagine a PKer attacks someone, and the victim hits a button and disappears...lol. You'd better implement PvP flagging then, that would be less frustrating.

I said run around a building or something. Not just POOF. I dont want poof at all.

Running from people is pretty easy in this game, and if they are in armor and with weapons they are likely slower than you are.

The dropping into hide when seeing someone get attacked is talking about SOMEONE else getting attacked.

I dont see why you think PVP flagging has anything to do with it, you want to explain that?

[Jadzia]

I said run around a building or something. Not just POOF. I dont want poof at all.

Running from people is pretty easy in this game, and if they are in armor and with weapons they are likely slower than you are.

The dropping into hide when seeing someone get attacked is talking about SOMEONE else getting attacked.

I dont see why you think PVP flagging has anything to do with it, you want to explain that?

If they made it 3x more effective (as you suggested) it would be poof disappearing. That would mean PvP would always be consensual...if someone don't want to fight he would just hide. PvP flagging is the method for consensual PvP.

[Yzandor]

When you guys say POOF, is that include a cloud of smoke? ;-P

[Jadzia]

When you guys say POOF, is that include a cloud of smoke? ;-P

Lol of course, what would it be worth without a cloud of smoke ??