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  1. #1

    A Griefer's Paradise?

    There's an interesting thread on MMORPG about XSYON being a griefer's paradise. I agreed, and here is why:

    What is the difference between "griefing" and normal PvP? The normal PvP game has a goal, with benefits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or, you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat. Xsyon has nothing like this. There is no actual PvP in that sense, since there is no reward for winning and no loss when you lose.

    Griefing is player-vs-player too, but the goal is purely to kill the player, there is no other reward. In PvP, I may kill you for a reason, in griefing, killing you is the reason. Xsyon is a griefer's paradise, since there is no normal PvP.

  2. #2
    Not really. It would be if it was easy to kill someone. But if the victim chooses to run away its very hard to catch him/her. A griefer can't grief if his victim can escape.

    Plus there is some benefit of a kill, the loot. Not much, but many games have even less.
    Soon we will have expansion totems to fight over.

  3. #3
    You good sir are very much wrong. And here is why:

    "PvP has a goal, with benifits to winning. For example, you may get "Realm Points" or Something to spend on improving your character skills or gear. Or you may be attacking or defending a thing, a keep for example, and if you win or lose it it has an effect on the game. For example, take the keep and everybody gets a bonus stat."

    There, you stated your own reason for being wrong. The purpose of killing people in Xsyon is to take what they have to "improve your character skills or gear", or to "attack or defend a thing", your territory and resources for example.

    So, I will admit that some who kill do it for no good reason. But fact is if someone kills you they may want to take your stuff or run you off from the area. Now, you may claim, "Well if you kill some guy who is doing nothing more than being out scavaging, and you don't even take anything of real value then it's 'griefing'" Well, that I would say does also have the indirect effect of screwing them up by causing them a lost of time and resources which may not help you specificly, but hindering neighbors could very well be the goal you had. Many would salt peoples farms in the past, not because it helped them, but because it made it so their enemies could not feed their own troops.

    I do not claim people will or do not grief in Xsyon, but the accusation is biased and short sited. It is also nothing more than complaining and offers no solution to the problem you are attempting to propose. People do not want to hear complaints, they desire possible solutions.

    Now, I ask you to think outside the box and see the reasons why 'open pvp' can and does have more function to simple griefing.

  4. #4
    So the only reason it is not a griefer's paradise is that griefing is hard? There is no other mechanic for PvP, right? So griefing is all we have, except dueling.

    I'll correct myself, it is a griefer's game world, but it's not paradise. Until the game adds real PvP (with risk/reward), there is only griefing. Looting, as you pointed out, is mostly worthless since there is nothing special to loot.

    Until they add something to defend and attack, say a pumpkin patch, then there is no real PvP in the game. Nothing to win, nothing to lose. Kill players just because you like how it feels, not for a goal.A griefer's paradise.

  5. #5
    I sorta agree and sorta disagree.

    1) It is very easy to avoid PVP in this game. Thus griefers that are griefing through killing have a hard time.
    2) Killing someone in combat is not the same as griefing someone. Killing them as they respawn over and over, is griefing, attacking someone near your tribe area, or something like that is not even close to griefing its just PVP.
    3) Loot in this game is next to worthless, however, bone armor and some of the higher QL weapons are the some of the more rare and better loot. Few people use this armor. Also depends on what and how you get someone. Ive come acrossed someone with with 500+ screws on them, and other nice resources. Thats a pretty good loot too me. Also Ive got at least 5 to 10 sets of bone armor. Bone armor isnt the easiest thing to make nor get a hold of (2 sets were high QL too which is really rare).
    4) There are a few things to defend, like trees, and animals. They are not always protected and are pretty rare in some places (most places for animals).

    Yes they do need to add some more conquest stuff, rare resources, etc. The other major problem with it not being a griefers paradise is the fact that there is a HUGE desync in combat, so its very hard to kill someone unless they are mostly AFK, or really want to fight you.
    Griefing someone by killing them at the spawn points is impossible due to the safe totem issue.

    Now things you CAN do to grief someone is, drop a safe totem near their totem and kill them anytime they step food outside their area. Also dropping totems around their tribe and terraforming them in with walls or pits. So yes there are ways you can grief people. Ive not really seen this done yet. But it CAN be done. Due to the "safe" totem issues.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  6. #6
    griefing is when you are doing something to a player who does not have any other option but to deal with it or quit.

    see rez killing.
    see mob stealing
    see lowbie ganking
    see etc. etc. etc.

    a) xsyon does not current have much pvp to speak of atm, so despite being able to, there isnt enough to call it a 'griefers paradise'
    b) you can run away from any engagment you don't like. There current is not a way to slow down, or otherwise impede an opponents movement to a degree to which they can not run away from an engagement.
    c) currently tribal areas are 'safe' you can't be attacked in them. You can do everything your little heart desires from within the comfort of your own mudhut.

    it is currently impossible to grief in xsyon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

  7. #7
    Now, I ask you to think outside the box and see the reasons why 'open pvp' can and does have more function to simple griefing.

    I understand, thanks for the good response. I did not say that everyone in the game is only griefing. There are some scenarios where it is not, as you pointed out. That does not bear on my point, though. There is no other PvP mechanic, so that makes it attractive to those who would only grief. This is my point. The game is attractive to griefers due to the lack of any real game content or PvP mechanics.

    My best PvP experience was with DAOC, I loved RvR! There, you had to get to 45-50 to even get started (except for battlegrounds). Then, as you PvP'd, you augmented your character with new skills. Xsyon has nothing like this. You can jump in as a lvl 0 player and start killing from day one. Naked and bare hands is as good as anything. No griefer would take the time to get to DAOC PvP, but Xsyon provides nothing like this. A griefer's paradise. Not the same as saying everyone's PvP is always griefing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by billpaustin View Post
    Now, I ask you to think outside the box and see the reasons why 'open pvp' can and does have more function to simple griefing.

    I understand, thanks for the good response. I did not say that everyone in the game is only griefing. There are some scenarios where it is not, as you pointed out. That does not bear on my point, though. There is no other PvP mechanic, so that makes it attractive to those who would only grief. This is my point. The game is attractive to griefers due to the lack of any real game content or PvP mechanics.

    My best PvP experience was with DAOC, I loved RvR! There, you had to get to 45-50 to even get started (except for battlegrounds). Then, as you PvP'd, you augmented your character with new skills. Xsyon has nothing like this. You can jump in as a lvl 0 player and start killing from day one. Naked and bare hands is as good as anything. No griefer would take the time to get to DAOC PvP, but Xsyon provides nothing like this. A griefer's paradise. Not the same as saying everyone's PvP is always griefing.

    If someone was naked and punching me, I would laugh for about 3mins, then if they were jerks, I would kill them in 1 or 2 hits.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  9. #9
    You confuse pointless PvP with griefing. What makes the difference inbetween this 2 is the goal. The griefer wants to annoy his victim. This is not really possible in Xsyon. I can run away, and even if I'm caught I can die in water or log out, or drop my bins. So I don't lose anything thus not annoyed. This makes the griefer mad since he wanted me to be frustrated and angry.

    If Xsyon was a griefer paradise we would have griefers. But all of them left.. though there was a nice number of them before Only DDT is back because he is more creative and found non-combat methods to annoy people (ok no offense DDT JK )

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    You confuse pointless PvP with griefing. What makes the difference inbetween this 2 is the goal. The griefer wants to annoy his victim. This is not really possible in Xsyon. I can run away, and even if I'm caught I can die in water or log out, or drop my bins. So I don't lose anything thus not annoyed. This makes the griefer mad since he wanted me to be frustrated and angry.

    If Xsyon was a griefer paradise we would have griefers. But all of them left.. though there was a nice number of them before Only DDT is back because he is more creative and found non-combat methods to annoy people (ok no offense DDT JK )
    This is good, I haven't really played in about 2 months. I am in Hopi, and came back to find it, uh, well. If what you say is true, I'll take back half of what I said ))) If they all left, YAY!

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