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  1. #1

    Do you really want another DF or MO?

    I mean really?

    It does NOT seem like the devs want that, but the vocal minority here on the forums seem to believe that its the only way that Xsyon will survive... to make it a basic clone of other games...

    I am VERY happy Xsyon is not like those games.. and that as it grows it will become much better then any of those other games.

    WE can make quests .. PFFT on having NPC hand them out .. been there done that ... left
    WE can develop and build our own safe zones. If after Prelude they are gone it only adds to excitement.
    We can develop the dynamics and politics when resources and rares are much less common... why would I want to let npc, or even the devs determine that, when they will allow US to do it?
    We don't have to have ongoing war to have reasons to play, build, craft, or interact... The devs are trying to make a game where WE can determine how we interact or have conflict.

    Do you REALLY want this to be another clone of what is already out there and losing players???

    Or are you willing to have patience to help make this game what the developer wants it to be?

    Maybe the better question you should ask, do YOU want what they are making? IF not, if what you really want is Darkfall or Mortal online, then why are you not playing those?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    I mean really?

    It does NOT seem like the devs want that, but the vocal minority here on the forums seem to believe that its the only way that Xsyon will survive... to make it a basic clone of other games...

    I am VERY happy Xsyon is not like those games.. and that as it grows it will become much better then any of those other games.

    WE can make quests .. PFFT on having NPC hand them out .. been there done that ... left
    WE can develop and build our own safe zones. If after Prelude they are gone it only adds to excitement.
    We can develop the dynamics and politics when resources and rares are much less common... why would I want to let npc, or even the devs determine that, when they will allow US to do it?
    We don't have to have ongoing war to have reasons to play, build, craft, or interact... The devs are trying to make a game where WE can determine how we interact or have conflict.

    Do you REALLY want this to be another clone of what is already out there and losing players???

    Or are you willing to have patience to help make this game what the developer wants it to be?

    Maybe the better question you should ask, do YOU want what they are making? IF not, if what you really want is Darkfall or Mortal online, then why are you not playing those?


    Sorry how is it a clone of MO or DF? Just because something has difficulty vs reward doesnt mean its a clone of DF or MO. World building in MO and DF are nothing like Xsyon.
    Also DF is growing not losing players. But why dont you use something like EVE online? Whats wrong with that? It has a great system and has tons of people playing it.

    Also there are tons of threads about this already, way dont you jump in those with your thoughts and ideas?


    You ask a detailed question. Here is the answer. Do I want what they are making? I dont know, because that idea keeps changing. When I first started it was open PVP FFA 100% after Prelude, now its, we are going to allow some tribes to be contested if they choose. That's a pretty huge change.

    It seems also like he has some other plans on how to do this, with the rare resources and contested totems, so Im looking to see how that progresses. I made a thread about this already.
    Lots of action on it and a lot of people answer your question here.
    http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ng-to-Carebear.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  3. #3
    you're really politicking for the carebear nation.

    What do the devs want? Well, hmm, lets see, I think there were some items posted recently that kinda spell it out:
    Who is happy with the direction Xsyon is going with being safe totems
    everywhere, and no fighting for any resources?
    As I've stated a few times recently, we're working towards expansion totems that will claim resources to be fought over. The agriculture system is intended to provide these resources, but as being discussed in another thread, I can adjust the distribution and availability of scavenged, and other current resources to provide contestable resources.


    Jordi, speak up please. Make it clear what you want and what you will do.
    Don't leave it to the players, it doesn't work. Let us know finally, and let us
    know clearly.
    I've stated it before, I want a balanced world. These arguments tend to polarize players as if the only choices are either a carebear's or griefer's paradise with nothing in between. What is my vision, carebear PvE or full or griefer PvP? Neither, I want a balanced world that will appeal to both sides. I think this can be achieved step by step and it needs to happen over time (hence the Prelude). If I could set in stone how to achieve the right balance, I would, but if it was that easy it'd be done already by a larger developer and none of you would be here in the first place!

    My vision has never changed. What is required to bring about the vision is what changes because if things don't work out as intended, they must be rethought and reworked. That's how the game evolves.

    The first step is the combat revisions. If combat is more fun and tactical, it should appeal to more players. The next step is finishing architecture so that towns can be protected and we can have contested expansion totems. From the other discussion I see that adding more meaningful rare resources and redistribution of these resources will go further than adding agriculture to provide a reason for contested expansions. All of this is being worked on right now.

    The other thread ( http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...or-the-players) started off providing good feedback that is easy for me to sort through and get some ideas of what the community needs. If I can get more civil feedback like that, without veering into these carebear vs pvp debates, I highly appreciate it.

    We do also plan to send out email polls, but the combat and architecture revisions come first right now.
    Of course this caused an outcry of WTF are you talking about? Could you be any less vague? Specifics!

    And then we got:
    Originally Posted by Larsa
    With all my respect, Xsyon. A balanced world, a good goal - and a goal difficult to achieve.
    I know it's difficult, but it can be done! If I wanted easy I'd be working for a big company right now and thinking of what fun things I can do this weekend.

    I'm skimmed through the discussion and I don't see the sides as wanting too different of a game. It's in the details. The main questions seems to be about balance and risk and rewards.

    For me, balance means enough choices so that both PvPers and non PvPers can enjoy the game, but without forcing players to play a certain way.

    It's clear there are some players that would like to force PvP only on the non PvP crowd. That doesn't make for a viable game.

    For those that want to fight each other, as I've stated before, we will allow tribes to set themselves as warring tribes as soon as we can, and this will have inherent risks and rewards for those who participate.

    PvP in itself already comes with its rewards (you get to loot things rather than make, pay or trade for them). Yes, I realize players can lock packs to prevent looting right now. This will change. Not looting in water is a bug and will be fixed. There will also be death penalties (both PvP and PvE).

    The redistribution of resources that I'm working on should automatically add rewards for risk. Tribal land won't yield the resources that open and expansion land does and a tribe won't be able to claim land near all valuable resources as they will be spread out. Travel will be necessary and travel through open lands is inherently risky.

    I need to get back to work, but I have gleaned some good feedback from this discussion and I think a redistribution of resources and crafting improvements will go a long way. There are many things that clearly both sides of this discussion seek so we'll focus on those first.
    So 'the Man' says he wants a balanced game.

    Most of the back and forth in the other forum is about the balance between the two...how do you balance the pvp goals with the pve goals and make them equally rewarding and not create a dominant 'best' way to play. I will say there are some extreme differences in opinion as to what that entails But at the end of the day, it's our issue to discuss, and Jordi's to implement...and then its up to the players to decide if they like it. So, our discussion over there is just that, a discussion where both sides are being adamant and vocal in their opinions...hopefully some decent ideas come out of it.

    So, now here you come. Declaring that the current vision of a balanced world brings it on par with MO/DF. So while we're debating what balance is, you're declaring that should be no balance, and the game should focus strictly on the pve side of hte equation...hmm, i don't think your ideas represent the devs vision.

    So, to turn things around, if you want a pve only game why not play mine craft, atitd, or any ofthe other countless pve only games?

    It is obvious that the devs wants a game seamlessly integrates the pve and pvp goals and objectives...This is a horribly difficult task, and as the product is still basically a mid-alpha level game, the jury hasn't even recessed to decide if they've achieved it.

    So why again are you coming in here declaring that any pvp focus makes it a mo/df clone?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

  4. #4
    Xsyon Citizen VeryWiiTee's Avatar
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    Because those were the two games he knew had a FPS orientated aiming and twitch gameplay?..
    I got no idea..

    And no it isn't mid-alpha stage. it isn't beta. We passed that a loong time ago.

    It is Prelude stage. Adding to the already content stage, making the game more advanced.
    - Doing what most firms do in an MMO.. Fix bugs, add more stuff etc.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by VeryWiiTee View Post
    Because those were the two games he knew had a FPS orientated aiming and twitch gameplay?..
    I got no idea..

    And no it isn't mid-alpha stage. it isn't beta. We passed that a loong time ago.

    It is Prelude stage. Adding to the already content stage, making the game more advanced.
    - Doing what most firms do in an MMO.. Fix bugs, add more stuff etc.
    I think you should really check out the definitions of alpha and beta. This game is NOT even close to being in beta..
    "Beta is the software development phase following alpha (beta is the second letter of the ancient Greek alphabet, used as the number 2. It is not nowadays usual to speak of a later gamma test). It generally begins when the software is feature complete. "

    "FEATURE COMPLETE" ... do you really think all the game features are in yet? .. If so what about cooking? taming? etc.. etc. lots of things are not present yet in the game.. Hence there is no way the game can be considered "In beta" The game is in a Alpha state and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

    Beta is for final testing of bugs before official "Release"

    Check this out.. Its the life-cycle of software development.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ife_cycle#Beta

    "As the Internet has allowed for rapid and inexpensive distribution of software, companies have begun to take a more loose approach to use of the word "beta".[4] Netscape Communications was infamous for releasing alpha level versions of its Netscape web browser to the public and calling them "beta" releases"

    Just because a company says its "Beta" etc doesn't mean it actually is.. More often then not companies are forced to put out their games due to monetary issues. They call their products "beta" etc to draw people in..

    etc etc

    As for the OP.. While i am not a rabid supporter of PVP.. I do like to do it once in a while.. You make a lot of good points.. And i like the Dev's responces, You can't have a pure pvp sandbox and survive in the game market. Lets face facts , Only a very few people ever pvp full time. you just can not do it. Mainly due to being killed all the time. If you don't have some sort of "safe zone" what winds up happening is nothing gets done except one big gank fest and people wind up quitting.

    Sure the gank fest would be fun.. As long as your skills are high and you have lots of friends.. If your a new player you would be screwed.. And that's basicaly what some people want.. Sense their skills are already up what do they care if some new player can't do anything?? Its the entire reason behind some peoples rabid pro pvp stances here.. They want a advantage over new players and do not want anyone to be able to challenge them.. (its a human trait to want to get some sort of advantage).

    etc etc

  6. #6
    i want new entropia universe open pvp / full loot ( i quit long time ago , but i keep reading updates )

  7. #7
    You get it don't you Wolf.

    ddt and dub seem to need new batteries in their hearing aids...

    I have not said ANYWHERE I wanted pvp gone or to not be a part of this game.

    I always say ( pay attention guys ) PvP make for more excitement.

    I am just extremely tired of seeing the same 2-3 people rant on and on about what they think will fix this game, and when folks don't agree with them they twist the op's words to appear that they support their view.

    ddt and Dub do NOT speak for all the players.. maybe for a small and dwindling % of players... maybe

    I will say it very plainly for those with inflated ego's...

    PvP is and should be a part of this game.

    PvE players are also supposed to be a part of this game.

    I agree with Jordi's stated vision for this game and will support his efforts.

    I am not a fanboi nor am I blind to things that are broken or need fixing, like the invisible walls I run into crossing the middle of zones .. Nor am I going to waste play time arguing with fools.

    I am succeeding quite well in this game and continue to enjoy playing.

    I do not personally want a rehash of the same tired game mechanics and do not believe what 2-3 want will make this game better. Disagree all you want, because it wont matter ... My style of player will still be here long after those whining the most are gone.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    You get it don't you Wolf.

    ddt and dub seem to need new batteries in their hearing aids...

    I have not said ANYWHERE I wanted pvp gone or to not be a part of this game.

    I always say ( pay attention guys ) PvP make for more excitement.

    I am just extremely tired of seeing the same 2-3 people rant on and on about what they think will fix this game, and when folks don't agree with them they twist the op's words to appear that they support their view.

    ddt and Dub do NOT speak for all the players.. maybe for a small and dwindling % of players... maybe

    I will say it very plainly for those with inflated ego's...

    PvP is and should be a part of this game.

    PvE players are also supposed to be a part of this game.

    I agree with Jordi's stated vision for this game and will support his efforts.

    I am not a fanboi nor am I blind to things that are broken or need fixing, like the invisible walls I run into crossing the middle of zones .. Nor am I going to waste play time arguing with fools.

    I am succeeding quite well in this game and continue to enjoy playing.

    I do not personally want a rehash of the same tired game mechanics and do not believe what 2-3 want will make this game better. Disagree all you want, because it wont matter ... My style of player will still be here long after those whining the most are gone.


    I dont know what part I "dont" get but, I speak my mind, I give my opinion and I give the data.
    I try not to speak for everyone, but sometimes it happens. Sometimes people ask me to post something because I can express my and their ideas.
    Do I want the game to be made I want? Of course. I also expect that I wont get it 100% how I want. I express my views of how I want, and I debate them into why I would like them. If you dont want something the way I want it express and explain why you dont want them. Use data and facts to support why.

    So far what you have posted here is really just you upset because someone else is posting their ideas and you dont like their ideas, but have yet to express a better way or why you dont like them.

    I agreed with Jordis vision. However that vision has changed. Im expressing why or why not I agree or disagree with those changes.

    I dont know who you are calling a fool, but most people posting Ive seen are trying to weigh in on the topics that matter.


    I believe that 2 - 3 want will make this game better, considering there is only 3 or 4 devs I would think it would be understandable that few can help a lot.

    Your style of player have quit also, just as others have quit. Im not saying only your style of player have quit just saying many have quit.

    This game has issues and its not just a PVE issue and its not just a PVP issue.
    Heck from this topic I dont even know what you want.

    Ive been here longer than you, and I will be here longer than you, fighting the fight to keep the game alive and giving my opinion on how I think it should be done. Good thing I love about the devs is they listen to well thought out posts and do adapt.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    You get it don't you Wolf.

    ddt and dub seem to need new batteries in their hearing aids...

    I have not said ANYWHERE I wanted pvp gone or to not be a part of this game.

    I always say ( pay attention guys ) PvP make for more excitement.

    I am just extremely tired of seeing the same 2-3 people rant on and on about what they think will fix this game, and when folks don't agree with them they twist the op's words to appear that they support their view.

    ddt and Dub do NOT speak for all the players.. maybe for a small and dwindling % of players... maybe

    I will say it very plainly for those with inflated ego's...

    PvP is and should be a part of this game.

    PvE players are also supposed to be a part of this game.

    I agree with Jordi's stated vision for this game and will support his efforts.

    I am not a fanboi nor am I blind to things that are broken or need fixing, like the invisible walls I run into crossing the middle of zones .. Nor am I going to waste play time arguing with fools.

    I am succeeding quite well in this game and continue to enjoy playing.

    I do not personally want a rehash of the same tired game mechanics and do not believe what 2-3 want will make this game better. Disagree all you want, because it wont matter ... My style of player will still be here long after those whining the most are gone.
    you realize that you're being a total hypocrite?
    You call out ddt and i for speaking our minds, and giving our opinions on various things.
    Yet, I could say the same things about the 'opposition'. I find myself having the same arguments with the same people over the same subjects.

    Both pro and anti pvp players have quit en masse over the last couple months...And at this point they probably quit for the same reason...it's an unfinished product that they are unwilling to pay for. So you're statement presumes that 'your' position is stronger than 'ours' because 'our' contingent has diminished to a greater degree than yours, well I don't believe that's reality.

    So, yes, we've been hhearing the panicked call of the carebear now for quite some time - OMG DO YOU WANT THEM TO MAKE ANOTHER DF/MO OMG GO PLAY IT THEN ALREADY LEAVE US ALONG LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE US TO OUR MUD HUTS AND SKIRT WEAVING AHHHHHHHH- and it's always the same thing. PvP players are rabid psychos only interested in how many people they can kill. That we have consistently tried to explain that this isn't true, present examples demonstrate, and generally tried (without a lot of success) to illustrate how we do want a balanced game makes no difference.


    We get it. You don't like how we play. You'd prefer we're not around. You believe the game should be a 180 from where we want.

    Thats great. Opinions are outstanding at this point...but yours is no more valid or relevant than anyone elses.

    have a nice day.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    www.theburninghorde.com

  10. #10
    It's not DF vs MO vs Xsyon...

    It's simply... games that give freedom and meaning that work vs games that give freedom and meaning that don't. I'm talking about design decisions for the future, not current. I think Xsyon will work better than DF or MO do once Xsyon has been out as long as they have been currently (talking about from development and onward...DF was in development for a very very long time).

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