PvP does NOT have to mean combat.

[Dubanka]

Folks.. This entire game is a work in progress. It has been restated many times by the developer he wants all types to play in the same world, and that he wants safety for those that are not interested in pvp, BUT that he wants pvp as well to exist here. HE is working out how that will happen. Slowly we are moving there, and one day I'm sure we will see something unique and amazing here. IN THE MEAN TIME.... I suggest we all play if we enjoy it, move on if we don't and ALL try and get into the idea of what the game is trying to do, and see what you can help make.

work in progress...not really. what has changed since feb? stability is a little better (is that because of code, or because the number of people on at any given time is but a fraction of what it was?). Ok we have animals, and trees grow back. What has changed from a gameplay standpoint?
Nothing.
Work in progress implies that progress is being made.

Following two games that released at the same time, in similar condition...xsyon and earthrise...earthrise has made signficant strides in unscrewing itself, but still has a lot of work to do...that is a work in progress. Xsyon is, functionally, in the exact same place it was 6 months ago. It's a sim.

So. Stop the charade, and make it a sim. Remove the ffa aspect...no pvp at all...focus on being a sim. I won't play it (i know, some of you are crushed), but maybe somebody will.

Xsyon needs to decide what it's going to be when it grows up. As has been said by many, many times, despite the devs intentions you can't cater to all the people at all times. PIck an audience. Combat sucks. So pick the other audience.

[fatboy21007]

dont forget dub, xsyon is also attempting a 50/50 balance and alot more has been done, architecture parts was also added-scavenging made a hell of alot tougher-- scheme limits and the next patch adds alot more. So id say this game has progressed, considering earthrise has a hell of alot bigger dev team then xsyon as xsyon only has 3 programmers, and u see several patchs every month id say their progress is pretty decent. I know of games they see 1-3 contents patchs in 1 year. In xsyon in the 6 months ive been here ive seen 2 and that process is speeding up. It neither you have the patience or ya dont. Common sence should have told ya would take up to a year to get the game in a complete state to get new fun things rolling out.

[Dubanka]

oh i don't disagree they've done stuff...that stuff just hasn't impacted gameplay.
there are some more animals
there are some more buildings
there are some more resources
combat animations are different (better? not sure)
but the underlying gameplay, or rather the holes in the gameplay have not been addressed.

and yes, 3 programmers, and overworked hamster running the server and a dev team on the other side of the world...that is not an excuse, it is their business model.

And to go with that business model, well most businesses look to identify their core market, and then maximize their ability capture that market share. The more you deviate from your core market the greater chance you stand to dilute your ability to capitalize on it. Hence, what you want to do, and focus on it.
xsyon will not be a pvp wonderland, a basket weaving paradise and builders dream...at least not at the same time. They simply do not have the staff to spend the time to balance the SIGNIFANT needs of the various game parts. Flow charts. What's important. Need ta, want ta, like ta. focus on the need, make a plan, execute. There are more important things to focus on than new recipes. How about making existing recipes have value? There are more important things to focus on than combat animations. How about fixing desync so you can actually have combat. As has been said ad nauseum by the fan club...it's not a million dollar company. They need to focus their resources on their core gaming mechanisms and make those systems work, then incrementally re add new system.

Eliminate pvp
Primary focus on making the building system phenomenal
Secondary focus on making the crafting system have value (which would involve addressing the resource issue).

Building is the best part of this game. Polish it. Expand it. Focus on it. There were a whole lot of ideas thrown around (regarding totems) that could be implemented on a non combat basis that would give real purpose to building stuff.

anyway. just the peanut gallery. Really not hating, just trying to put out the facts as i see them.

[AlexTaldren]

The players need purpose. How that's handled is up to the developers, but without purpose, people won't play for very long. Even if it was something as simple as mutant NPCs that attack totems at night and need to be repelled. If left undefended, they could eventually destroy walls, buildings, bins, etc. Suddenly, I have a reason to build walls, defenses, etc. Purpose.

PvP is the same way. Just have to find a purpose for it.

[Dubanka]

The players need purpose. How that's handled is up to the developers, but without purpose, people won't play for very long. Even if it was something as simple as mutant NPCs that attack totems at night and need to be repelled. If left undefended, they could eventually destroy walls, buildings, bins, etc. Suddenly, I have a reason to build walls, defenses, etc. Purpose.

PvP is the same way. Just have to find a purpose for it.

true, but if one thing has become a truth, is that pvp players and 'nons' have a completely idea of what purpose is.
instead of trying to accomodate both camps, retreat, focus on fulfilling one, then reevaluate on the others re-implementation.
the dynamics that are required to have a productive pvp environment are simply not here, nor do they appear to be forthcoming...focus on what the game does well, or at least does decently, and then build upon that.

[Shrimps]

I will never understand why all the carebears seem to think that PVP automatically means Quake2011 FFA Deathmatch Online. PVP can be balanced and it's the most fun when it is balanced correctly through a Karma or alignment system. In fact, balancing the Alignment system would be very easy, but it's way too late for that now.

I agree with Dubanka, maybe you could've salvaged your pvp crowd a few months ago, but the second Xsyon posted the announcement that totems are safe forever, he abandoned the pvp crowd and turned his game into a sim. A half complete sim, but a sim nonetheless. If that announcement hadn't been made and there was still going to be pvp sieging further down the line I know that there would be at lest 1 medium sized tribe still subbed and building and preparing. But anyways maybe I'll try earthrise later on, for now AOC is F2P and is the only thing close to a decent pvp MMO out at the moment.

[Mactavendish]

The idea that was stated in the very beginning what that he is trying to build what he feels a the perfect balance between both pve and pvp. An ambitious idea to be sure and one surely worth trying to do.

BUT...

It is one mans dream and a small dev team to pull off. It might be great to just focus on one area and since almost all pvp focused players have indeed left, maybe you have a valid point .. at least from a players perspective. I have NO clue what Jordi and team feel.

It is totally a matter of perspective as to what a person calls progress as well. I actually agree with much of what your saying Dubanka, and agree with the idea that picking focus and staying focused is a HUGE part of what we need to see happen. However, if what he does is try and pull of his original vision, I can forsee that it won't happen fast. I am totally cool with that.

Haven't you noticed that we haven't seen them complaining about lack of funds to keep going like so many games do during development. My feelings are, ( and they have nothing to back them up beyond what we have seen so far... ) that they have the funds to keep developing, are moving as fast as they can with the manpower they have, and ARE making progress in the directions they want to move. I am also cool with that too.

All games appeal to a certain niche of players and that is a given. I can say with full confidence that when he has it where he wants ( even if it evolves into a totally pve game, Not that I am even for a fully pve only game at all. ) and then does some advertising, MANY people with join this game and enjoy what it has to offer.

Added after 9 minutes:

I guess that is the way with some people Shrimps. I am totally for PVP in xsyon, and have always been. Combat pvp is not my style mind you, as I am looking for more complex interactions between players then simple kill them and take their stuff.

And again You seem to be operating under the impression that so called carebears finished off this game when it was never said by Jordi ( ever ) that there was gonna be sieges, nor has he ever backed away from wanting safe zones of some sort in this game. If anything Pvp'rs got the wrong impression about this game due to pvp being in a sand box game. Sandbox does not mean NO rules, it means non linear play where players define much of the content. At the moment thare are NO alignment features working here, nor systems of karma or repercussions for acting evil. You really can't have a viable pvp game without some of those working. So.. pvp here atm is pointless.

[MrDDT]

To the OP, Just to clear up if anyone is thinking I'm for this type of game play. No I'm not, I never posted to this point because I feel people should be able to share there idea's here. No mater how I like them or not.

Now to the rest of this de-railed post that went to shit!!!

Let' blame the Carebears!!!
From almost the start of the Xsyon forums, People that wanted FFA PVP has said that carebears are killing the game. I've read forum members post that said at first the game was going to be FFA PVP. I have never read anything from Jooky saying this. Mater-A-Fact I don't think I would have joined the game if I had read that.

Am I a Carebears, Fanboy, Sim Player? You damn straight I am,
I play the way I enjoy playing, Just like YOU ALL DO!

Do I want FFA PVP? HELL NO!!!

Do want it to be all PVE? HELL NO!!!

I do want PVP,
But do I want it to be unsafe 100% of the time? HELL NO!!!

I do want safe area's to a point, There will be very few tribe(At lest at the start) that can have a 24/7 PVP team in-game. And I damn sure don't want to log in one morning and find that some asshat has come to my town over night when no one was logged in and trashed it so bad that we would have to rebuild everything. How the dev team works out the way medieval siege type play will work, Well thats up to them, And I'm all for it. Do it in a way I like, I stay playing. Do it wrong and I walk. I have no problem with having to fight to keep what I want. I just don't want it to be in a way that people can take my city out when we are not online.

Don't blame the carebears for something they did not do, Jooky said from the start it would never be a Darkfall game, Stop trying to tell everyone it was and the carebears stopped Jooky from doing that. From the first time I read the front page of the website I have never read anything anything that said it would be FFA.

And when it comes to people saying there is nothing to do in the game, And it has no meaning. What do you think will be that meaning? The game will be run by the players, Value is the monetary worth of something, We say what that worth is. What the dev team has to do is slow down how fast we level and how much we all can do across the board. This is already started, and being worked on as well. But for the most part we will be the ones running the nut house. And if you can't come up with something on your own, Maybe you need to start recruiting poeple that can.

God willing, This will be my only rant for the month.

We have said the same things over and over. If you cant see that it has changed since when preorders first game out, I cant help that you cant read.

Safe zones were to be REMOVED once "Prelude" was over. Now its maybe they will be removed with an option if you dont want to remove them haha.
Its clear as day right there things have changed.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post26835
http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-featu...-and-decisions
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post29075


You knew full well that this game was going to be FFA PVP, and had full looting. Times have changed. Im not even sure if you can read all these posts now as they have removed MANY of the posts that changed the way the game is over time.

Carebears have done this to the game, and now they are trying to tell me that this form of griefing the OP is talking about is what people want? You have to be kidding me.

What the OP is talking about are tactics and are griefing, they are used when well known other tools of combat, but alone its 100% griefing. Its not going to be good for the game. Its very clear what needs to be done to spark people into strife and warfare. These tree griefing tactics, junk pile paving tactics, terraforming tactics, and cornering the market tactics are not something devs should focus on to make people want to play, it will have the opposite effect.

Alik I agree even if this does go 100% PVE, it can have a lot of people playing, IF the game was to have well thought out ideas, working systems and a LOT more graphical content. Being that its a sandbox I dont see that happening, it will need to go another route. Like more tools, things like building, better choices for combat/strife with players, and more tools for economy to help spark the market into action.

Making things like "group of macroers would be attempting to farm mobs for some special resource or loot", or "train mobs onto your enemy", or "flood the market with lower priced items". Its a joke to even think those would be tactics you would want to encourage in a game.

[Mactavendish]

I am going to reply this once to you directly ddt.

I am not suggestion anyone grief others like you did with trees and paving over junk piles or destroying structures just because you could.

I was using those as examples of how even in a pve game where there was NO way to directly interact with other players, people would use those tactics to get relief from OTHER players preventing them from doing normal activities.

I am also very careful to say what I mean NOT what you want me to say. Of course some things have been bantered about as to what they MAY do in the future, but as it stands has any of it happened? Were safe zones removed? Has Jordi currently got plans to remove them? Does he want folks to have some form of safety if they do not want to participate in pvp? Come on.. you know the answers to all those questions. WE all do. Yelling loudly what you think does not make it so.

I am responding here to make sure that new players trying the game do not get the idea that you represent active players and certainly not any majority of players that actually play.

Back on Ignore you go.

[fatboy21007]

i think safe zones should stay, finish expansion totems and allow those to be attacked and only tribes who select no safe zones can use them, thus encouraging others to go full pvp. Now with the expansion totems u got 0 saftey, mb add a 3 day timer of a temp safe zone to build defenses up. But after that timer is up, everything is attackable and lootable inside that city with the expansion totem. Bam theirs the pvp needs solved and as for pve we keep are safe zones and keep doing what were doing. I think this game shines on building and custumization, This is something Xsyon needs to truly have fun with and push forward. Once all features are ingame, then having say 1k different arch peices or the ability to make tunnels or caves would add a nice bit of fun to the game. But add zombies in that from time to time attack active areas and they will have their own camp you can do raid and attack. So then boths sides have the same thing pve and pvp get both worlds and everyone is happy. Bam easy solution that doesnt force anyway on anyone.