Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27
  1. #1

    Combat Feedback: Newest Combat Video

    I wanted to show how long combat lasts.

    In this fight, we are using very good weapons (Master knife for me with a preorder Axe which preorders still do the most damage in the game, Roth is using a Master Axe and Club).

    Roth isnt wearing armor here (leather shirt and leather pants, not armor).
    Roth also didnt eat or drink before the fight so is at 0 food and thirst.

    I have very high skills in combat, so my damage should be upper end.

    The fight lasts over 3mins (I cut out a small part where he stopped and was talking on ventrilo, for about 2 seconds near the end).

    No parries or dodges were done (active), Roth has really poor combat skills.

    What are your guys opinions on how long the fight lasts?

    A few comments about my opinions.

    I believe the fight lasts WAY to long for really just "forced" fighting. Meaning he wanted to attack me, and I wanted to attack him. Normally if someone were losing a fight, they would do more things like run around and heal up, parry, block etc. Which would cause the fight to last many many times longer.

    Weapon types matter very little.

    Swing types matter very little.

    Charged swings are worthless as if you get hit, you lose the charge which is 3x number of normal attacks missed.

    Charged attacks only do 2x damage. (Or really 2.1x)

    Still major dysnc issues. He was saying how he was behind me most of the fight, and I would say 30 or 40% I was behind or behind side of him.

    Many attacks miss that look like they should hit.

    No reasons to parry, or dodge because you are just losing your own damage. Only reason maybe is if, they charge an attack (which no one does) or you are holding out til help arrives.

    Parry or dodge is sorta hard, as you have to time the parry or dodge to the attacks, and the attacks can be very fast. Preorder stuff isnt all that fast but still pretty fast, but knives and fists are very very fast.

    Holding a parry doesnt cost stamina.

    Attacking costs 0 stamina, thus parrying or dodging an attack is really no loss to the attacker.

    Combat is very very boring. No special actions, no real choices. Just circle around the target to try to hit his back, while they are doing the same or trying to get away.

    Movement speeds are very close. Roth has very low AGI, and I was able to catch him, but only because our stats are 50+ points off in that fashion. Someone with close to my AGI would easy be able to get away.

    No way for someone with low AGI to get away from someone with high AGI. No special skills, no speed potions, no mounts, no smoke bombs, or stuns or anything. Not saying all those should be in game just saying no options at all. Either you have high AGI or you cant get away.

    This type of combat, is really just boring to me, and its all prep work for who is going to win. Who has better weapons, Who has better armor, Who has faster AGI, Who has food/thirst, Who has better skills.

    Very little comes down to Who does better choices in combat or Who has better aim, or Who does what at the right time. If anything really.

    Also fighting 2 people or more at the same time, gives the person thats solo or on the lower number ratio almost no chance at winning.
    No AOE attacks, no ARC attacks, Stamina issues in running around, without anyway to gain it back.

    The list goes on and on.
    Really need someone that understands combat better to look at this and see what is up. I know a lot of work was done for parry/block and directional swings, but all that work is for naught if no one wants to use them because they hurt or are break even.

    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

  2. #2

  3. #3
    I would have to agree with ya MrDDT, even with stat armor, it takes way to long, I liked it how it was to begin with, dont know why they changed it in the first place. I like the added stats, but its way to boring trying to kill someone, and you really cant kill someone cause now they can actually get "away". This type of combat is only good for duels between players that are looking to face one another. Either increase damage amount, aim, or decrease defense.

    By liquidblade at 2012-02-18

  4. #4
    Hrmmm not much of a PvPer myself but agree combat missing something I was thinking maybe if doge and perry were just calculations that would if successful make toon doge er perry this would free up alt and control for maybe a kick move or a grab hit or someth'n...but also don't wanna see combat get an overhaul either I like the way it works just needs a little someth'n more and perhaps make these new moves if critical incapacitate for a few seconds

    also was wondering ...since I didn't start with 90 srt dex and agil even if I had the best armour and gear I would never be a match for someone like MrDDT who did if he did I know make'n mortar will increase srt over time but thats still real years away lol so other than entertainment (and it is fun )me in PvP would be time wasted no?

  5. #5
    I really appreciate this type of feedback, so first of all, thank you very much.

    I need to make a few comments.

    Roth has very high hit points. This is one reason for the length of this fight.
    The difference between your agilities is 22 points.
    Leather pants and a shirt is armor. The base armor parts account for about 30% of a total set. There should be a significant difference between leather pants and a shirt and a naked player.
    A fully charged swing does 3.5 x more damage than a completely uncharged swing.

    I agree that as a 'forced fight' this takes too long, however it appears that swing power is hardly used at all.

    When we test in house we take advantage of what the system has to offer (directionaly swings, block, dodge and swing power) and we feel that combat is more fun and it does not take so long. So what are the main reasons that instead of actually using the system, players are running around in circles like this and using quick swing that deliver little power, thus drawing out combat?

    1) The main reason you are not parrying or dodging seems that swing are too fast. How much slower should they be? (2x, or more?)
    2) Parrying can be held and you can switch between a held swing and a held parry. Have you tried this? If so, what is the problem with it that it's not being used?
    3) Held swings (charged attacks) are not always cancelled when you are hit. Please test this. There is a 50% base chase that the held swing will be cancelled. If they are being cancelled too much when you have high skills I will adjust this. A high skilled attacker should not have his held swings cancelled.
    4) Do rear attacks increase damage by too much? Is this why you are constantly circling each other?
    5) Am I missing something else? What other reasons are causing players to fight like this rather than use the system as designed?

    To me this looks like a matter of tweaking variables so that players use the system that we've spent so much time implementing. Once that has been achieved we will work on special attacks and defenses.

    Thanks again.

    PS: This thread will be moved to our Feedback section.

  6. #6

    when you say use system as designed, do you mean we need to stand still and use parry/dodge and not move around???

    If so then that is a big flaw to be honest please clarify??

    Also if you charge your swing could someone not hit you twice quickly therfore cancelling your swing everytime?
    Ur ye Scottish? A um. Ye ken ur a true Scot if ye can properly pronounce Ecclefechan,Auchtermuchty and Aufurfuksake. Yer used tae 4 seasons in wan day. Ye kin faw aboot pished wioot spilling yer drink. Ye kin make hael sentences jist wi swear wurds. Ye know irn bru is a hang-er cure. Ye actually understawn this message

  7. #7
    Parry can be held down and dodge cannot be.

    Also, dodge only does 25% damage mitigation where as I've seen parry do 100% full mitigation.

    What is the point in dodge skill?

    Damage done by all chars should be increased by 4-5x and damage done by all NPCs should be increased by around 8-10x. This would create a system where NPCs can actually kill me when I go afk, but also a system where we can kill them without it taking 2-3 minutes, preferably more like 30 seconds - 1 minute depending on the damage per second done by the player.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by inhabit
    when you say use system as designed, do you mean we need to stand still and use parry/dodge and not move around???
    I mean use the advantage of swing power and yes, parrying or dodging. It seems that players are ignoring all of this to get the advantage of rear attacks, which is not so much of an advantage without a full powered swing.

    Also if you charge your swing could someone not hit you twice quickly therfore cancelling your swing everytime?
    No. If you have high defense skills, your swings should never be cancelled. If this is not working properly, I need to fix it. Actually I will change this to be based on your attack skills, not defense skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalGooey
    Also, dodge only does 25% damage mitigation where as I've seen parry do 100% full mitigation.
    They both have the same range of damage mitigation and this is based on your skills and stats. Parry will damage your weapons, but you are right in that there should be more of a difference.

    Thanks again for the feedback. I will check in for more feedback later.

  9. #9
    I see. Well I have never gotten a 100% with dodge where as it is quite common with parry skill, even when both skills were at level 5. Even if they were both equal in mitigation at the same skill level, parry can be held down, and that alone is enough to use it instead over dodge, every time. The timing of mitigation with parrying 100x easier than dodging.

    Perhaps something to be looked into.

    Also, attack skills do not affect combat damage. I have tested this thoroughly. So has DDT, who probably has the highest combat attack skills in the game.


  10. #10
    I hope the system isn't designed to just stand toe-to-toe while trading blows and using dodge/parry. What makes a melee combat system fun and visceral is the ability to gain advantage through movement in and out of weapon range while feinting strikes, timing blocks, and counter striking. In Xsyon, players instinctively circle their opponent because it is currently the only mechanism that allows them to gain an advantage on their opponent.

    Sorry to keep bringing up Mount & Blade but it is the best example I know that exemplifies fun melee combat. Here is a video showing how a player with a very short ranged blunt weapon uses movement and parry to get in close and land a clean strike on players with longer ranged melee weapons. If I had to pick one main factor stopping people from using parry would be that it doesn't cause a weapon kick back animation effectively causing a delay for when they can swing again. This video shows how a successful parry is clearly effective in combat and also clearly communicated to the player by visual and audio cues:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts