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  1. #1

    Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    I was interested in knowing how the alignment system will actually prevent rampant griefing, etc. that accompanies any game with PvP. Don't get me wrong I love PvP, I will not play a game that is solely PvE. However, you run into a sort of conundrum with certain players.

    Those who go red usually do so because they can circumvent most if not all penalties put in place simply by using provided game mechanics. I was reading another thread where someone said that the penalties as they were described is not a deterrent. I feel that playing that particular role should not have a "deterrent" per say, but the devs want consequences for those actions and if those consequences can be circumvented the evil players have an equal if not a higher chance for success against their rivals despite constraints.

    I propose that alignment be tied to the entire account and not just to a specific character, since Xsyon has stated that there are currently 3 character slots.

    Crafting seems like and should be a huge factor in the success of a tribe. Being a player with a negative alignment would normally prove cumbersome to most people due to the constraints for that playstyle. Most avid pvp'ers know how to get around a negative rep, namely through blue or good alts that have no formal attachment to their evil or red characters. In this sense a red who has just harassed a tribe repeatedly and stole materials etc can then transfer them to a blue or good alt and have those materials made into a weapon by the very same people they took them from then send the item back to the evil or red player.

    What tying alignment to the entire account does is force people who want to play evil characters to fully feel the constraints set up by the developers. I'm sure there will be people who embrace this and they will be names everyone will recognize. However, this gets rid of a lot of the unneeded noobie, etc. ganking. If those who choose to lead a notorious life are okay with the consequences, more power to them. Just means they have to talk the talk and walk the walk.

    Another semi-related issue that is unfortunately inescapable is the never ending nerf cycle. How do we deal with FOTM builds,skills,weapons? Avid PvPers always want every edge available to them. PvPer's tend to be very adept at figuring out which skill/spell/weapon is the best overall and use that knowledge to have an outright advantage over their opponents. That is fine, I'm a min/max'er myself. However, this behavior inevitably leads to the endless and game killing nerf cycle. This type of play style WILL happen. All of us will do it to some extent or another. However, those more interested in other aspects of game play are at the mercy of those who set out to have the best build etc. From this sparks cries of nerfs and so on and so on. How can we nip this in the bud before we are all doing the same amount of damage with every weapon? I personally think this is the ultimate downfall of a system with so many variables.

  2. #2

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    I agree. apparently some feel that who cares, if i am going to grief may as well grief to the best of my abilities and forget the rep system. It's like telling a criminal he can't steal, you think he is going to care?

    However, a game is an equation, what you do to one side you have to do to another. If you are going to attach bad to an persons entire account then you must also attach good to a players whole account.

    I also feel that being bad should not limit your crafting ability, being a criminal does not mean that you can't return someones wallet.

    There is a part of the game that does not have done to one side that the other side does. Good people going bad get consequences at home, in their own tribe, so why not do the same to the bad? That is, if a bad person does something good it boosts their rep a good deal and they will look down upon when coming home...maybe even have their loyalty questioned.

    However, this doesn't solve the problem at hand still.

    Maybe, someone who has been bad their whole life does not get the option to re spawn or something along those lines. After all, those that are bad end up in eternal dam nation.

    I know its not a perfect idea but it is a thought.

  3. #3

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    I do not condone perma death simply for being red or evil. A feature that severe or serious should be laid out evenly for all players. I merely wanted to address the potential issue of evil players being able to reap the benefits of being a "good" player on another character. Evil players will have less support to draw from but that is the drawback of that lifestyle, you're in effect an outcast to everyone except your own tribe, or maybe another evil tribe with similar beliefs (religious?).

  4. #4

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    How will they have less support? They will have food water weapons and crafters just like all the other tribes, however they have the major advantage of killing with no worries (this is why the dark side is always the easier path, less consequences).

    Maybe someone evil draws the "the dark side" there for making their attacks more powerful, but more expensive vigor wise?

    I'm out of ideas for now but will brood on it. Maybe some of my thoughts will make something click for something else.

    Remember we are not trying to make it worse to be evil, but simply trying to remove the "why should i care about rep if I'm evil" factor.

    There is also the possibility of something being in place that we were not told about.

  5. #5

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    They have less support because as I understand it, you are limited in the number of recipes you can learn. This means you need more than one crafter for potentially each craft type to have acess to all of them. As a good or neutral tribe you can align with other tribes and share knowledge and resources. However, as an evil tribe you are limited due to the likely hood that there will be fewer tribes to align with. If this is true or not still remains to be seen. I was simply trying to address the issue of players not caring about a specific game mechanic that seems integral to the core of the game.

    We tried to brainstorm in IRC and this is the best we could come up with. There is always room for improvement and we potentially may have missed the mark completely. However, these things should be concerns for a balanced system.

    I've always been a fan of the idea of one character per account with no visible alignment. You must deal with people on your own and remember who is trustworthy and who will stick a knife in your ass the moment you have something they want. I think I'm alone on this idea so we must optimize what we have.

  6. #6

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    I like the idea of having your alignment effect your entire account. What's to stop people having a neutral char for crafting where they can trade with goods and then an evil char for going out and raiding the shit out of everyone?
    Brum, brum.

  7. #7

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    I personally dislike the alignment system as a whole. As seen in games like EvE and Darkfall, the community themselves are more then capable of finding out who is good or who is evil. It narrows down the room for player politics, it is also a matter of perspective. However now the game decides what is good and what is evil.

    Also from a story point of view. Who decides that killing a person is evil? There is no law, beside the law the player create.

    However to the alignment to the whole account. I dislike it. To go back to my full faith in the community to deal with such situation, why not make it so that every account has one last name. So all of the person's character have the same last name so the players know that good character X is the same player as bad character Y. Now the players them self have the option to Kill on Sight the whole family or not.

    The problems I see with an alignment system right now is that the only people limited by it are those good, those evil will not care, beside that they will have an hard time trading and such. However with an alignment system those tribes and player will still have an hard time trading and such as player will refuse to trade with them, but still have the option to do so.

    Like I said maybe I am wrong and the system is not as strict as actually putting restriction on the players and tribes on how to interact with each other. I do however fail to see how the game would actually change for those evil whatever or not there is such a system?

  8. #8

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    Redus wrote:
    Also from a story point of view. Who decides that killing a person is evil? There is no law, beside the law the player create.
    Xsyon posted it in another thread somewhere, but tribe leaders can set rules that his/her tribes people must obey by.

    Redus wrote:
    The problems I see with an alignment system right now is that the only people limited by it are those good, those evil will not care
    This is what we are trying to brain storm a solution to. Right now the evil side seems to have a lot more power.

  9. #9

    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    It's an interesting suggestion and something to think about.

    I plan to see how the community reacts and works with the current system first.

  10. #10
    Xsyon Citizen darkrounge's Avatar
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    Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle

    Ah, i still need to donate .
    But when i do your never online!!

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