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  1. #1
    Xsyon Citizen
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    Mar 2011
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    netherlands
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    66

    Future of trade ???

    Hey guys, i am back and i heard poeple cry out they like more trade in this game.
    So my question is, how would you like this in an open PVP game ?

    I played Mortal Online recently, hey i am an fanboy of sandbox games, and i quit there because the game i completely focussed on PVP.
    As trader/crafter you didnt have the skills/experience to defend yourself.
    I got ganked at least once every day and stripped bare, the so called PVPrs preferred to destroy youre stuff rather then leave anything.
    This left me with such an bad game experience that i left.
    How does the community think about this kind of PVP and would we like to have this here too?
    Also i like to know if there are any idears too make sure this doesnt happen in Xsyon too.
    I have seen in MO that all non PVP players leave so you only keep an non productive PVP public who leave because of lack off players.
    And to be honest i loved the crafting in that game and still do.
    I hope we can have an mature discussion here, i am not anti PVP but i like too see an system where non pvp player and pvp players can enjoy the same game.
    I have only seen this in one game till now and that was EVE-Online, i still play Eve after 4 years and i am non PVP mostly.

  2. #2
    MO isnt a Sandbox, its a huge FPS lobby trying to act as a Sandbox so it doesnt attract the true sandbox type of people.
    While MO Attract alot more pvpers since thats the game was advertised

    Trade is beneficial when multiple parties have raritys or regional goods such as metals, specific types of wood, fish, food or other resources such as tar?
    Trade routes can be established and the same with Trade Outposts are a very vital point in this since they will serve as a network of hubs similar to station trading in Eve.

  3. #3
    Its a pickle, no doubt about it. Im not all for FFA PVP and full loot, especially in a game like Xsyon where we have trading with no markets or safe ways of transporting goods, the risks of trade far overshadow the benefits and thats a big problem. I dont think mortal online or darkfall is very balanced in this respect (cant rightly say, Ihve never tried it). I think an idea would be to port your cart with you, if you die. Lets say that if you leave your cart somewhere, the lock is pickable, which takes a little time, but if you die the cart is ported with you. Your corpse would still be lootable but you cart would be safe. This can of course only be done once the game has death penalties. Otherwise we get deathporting all over the place. I dunno, like i said, its a difficult area to balance.

  4. #4
    I think the moral of the story here is that there are crafting/PvE players here that want to be able to craft. build and trade in safety.

    One way that might work is that you would broker a caravan of sorts to transport your goods across open lands where you were venerable to getting ganked and robbed of your stuff. I also think that leaving the neutral tribes a safe zone would allow the PvE players to build and craft in a relatively safe environment other then going out to get raw materials. Leave the Good vs Evil tribes to the tribal warfare and to fight over control of the trade routes and the tax/fees from the routes...IDK

  5. #5
    Well it might just be an idea to cut neutral players out completly and make them PVP-disabled and make their tribelands strictly non-PVP. Thats esentially fully consensual PVP and thats afaik what the devs want to do. If you are good or evil you are PVP enabled, if you are neutral you are free to build and trade. That way neutrals can trade with both evil and good tribes and be able to move goods around safely, that opens up some interesting interaction in the metagame where good and evil players could hire neutral players to be their couriers. If PVPers want to move their stuff around they should have escorts.

    It should go without saying though, that PVP-enabled means that you get some hefty bonusses and advantages compared to PVP-disabled. The extra risk should be rewarded. I think a lot of PVEers actually have a problem with this. Which is pretty sad.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangei View Post
    MO isnt a Sandbox, its a huge FPS lobby trying to act as a Sandbox so it doesnt attract the true sandbox type of people.
    While MO Attract alot more pvpers since thats the game was advertised

    Trade is beneficial when multiple parties have raritys or regional goods such as metals, specific types of wood, fish, food or other resources such as tar?
    Trade routes can be established and the same with Trade Outposts are a very vital point in this since they will serve as a network of hubs similar to station trading in Eve.

    I like this because I notice no talk about PVP or full looting issues.

    I see regional resources that are WORTHWHILE to trade. Right now getting 5% better chance to find nails is not worthwhile of the time to figure out which areas those are. Bonuses on items are minor or broken.

    Travel in this game is very hard, thus the rewards of the rare regional items should be much better, else no one will care to travel / trade.

    Few things IMO to spark trade.

    1) Regional resources. Not 5% better chance to find something, try like 1% chance to find it somewhere else.
    2) Bonuses on items need to be balanced a lot more. All items should have bonuses on them. You already have varied bonus strength based on QL, but why would I use a Brass rivet? Plus the bonuses are so minor, or broken.
    3) Some way to travel faster. 3a) Make roads use 90% less energy. 3b) Some type of energy regen buff (magic, potion, herbs, clothing, food etc). 3c) Mounts.
    4) Contested resources outside of tribal areas. Example: Maybe a mine that has rare metal every 30mins. You have to take 1min to extract it based on resources skill. Cant be claimed.
    5) Resources that are harder to get through harder PVE issues (Raid monsters where it takes 5+ people to kill, but yields good rewards) sorta like mutants only fix the water fighting issues, and make the bonuses more varied, and useful items.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  7. #7
    DDT is mostly right the only thing I would add is animal drawn carts or wagons. Other than that everything else is spot on.

  8. #8
    I don't believe that anyone who comes to a game like MO or Xyson want safety in their sandbox crafting. That would defeat the purpose of the genre. I think, more accurately, people want tools to help them mitigate the losses or risk, to varying degrees.

    Eve is not the end all be all of sandboxyness but they do have that concept going for them, you are never completely safe but there are endless skills, player interactions, mods etc... to actively mitigate either the danger or losses with varying play-styles in mind.

    MO on, the other hand, is on to two things in it's crafting system. The metagame of being a crafter also becomes about hunting rare materials and testing them for their qualities and uses without a rigid mat1+mat2=great bow of swiftness kinda thing.

    I would suggest looking at the current player habits in xyson as an example of what DDT is talking about. Notice the abundance of tribes popping up in the one resource type that has any level of persistent rarity... the junk pile.

  9. #9
    Greetngs,

    Starting out Id like to say even though Ive only been in game a week Im greatly impressed with the players and dev community here. I think the game overall has huge potential and can fill a niche sorely empty in the mmo world. That being said, since I have been here Ive seen a large amount of discussion about trade and economy. Most frequent being how the trading is going to be done and how much things are worth. It seems to me, more important than thise questions, is WHAT are you going to trade. Without a set medium of currency all the other discussion is kind of putting the cart before the horse imo.

    For example I saw in game yestersay that the going rate for a cart is 3200 nails. So for cart makers nails is an acceptable form of currency (not going to address the type and quality issue here). But lets say I dont make carts, I make bone armor so nails are useless to me because I already have a dozen carts sitting around. I want bones. But Joe next door makes water bags and wants tar so nails and bones are worthless to him.

    My point is everyone has a different idea of what is worth something to them peraonaly. The problem with that scenario is people dont want to spend all their time in game trying to figure out who to trade nails to to get bones so they can trade them to someone else to get nails so they can trade them to get tar so they can get that water bag they so desperatly need. Not to mention that noone wants to haul a cart of tar for a hour to get that waterbag. Thats why we all dont still carry beaver pelts to the grocery store

    This of course leads to the question of what to use and how to introduce it to the game. Most games use NPC traders or mission rewards to inject currency into the game. We dont have that here. The other thing we dont have here is a currency sink. So even if everyone decided bottlecaps were an acceptable form of currency, since we can all go and just dig them up to inject them into the game but have nothing to take them OUT of the game, over a short period of time they will be worthless and that beginners crafting knife will cost you a fortune in bottlecaps.

    Sorry for the length of post, and Im not saying I know everything about the game because as Ive said Ive only been here a week, but Ive played mmo's since MUD's and more than pvp, pve, or any other mechanics of a game, a proper or improper economy can make or break a game.

    Just my 2 cents worth!

    Chris

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ceej389 View Post
    Greetngs,

    Starting out Id like to say even though Ive only been in game a week Im greatly impressed with the players and dev community here. I think the game overall has huge potential and can fill a niche sorely empty in the mmo world. That being said, since I have been here Ive seen a large amount of discussion about trade and economy. Most frequent being how the trading is going to be done and how much things are worth. It seems to me, more important than thise questions, is WHAT are you going to trade. Without a set medium of currency all the other discussion is kind of putting the cart before the horse imo.

    For example I saw in game yestersay that the going rate for a cart is 3200 nails. So for cart makers nails is an acceptable form of currency (not going to address the type and quality issue here). But lets say I dont make carts, I make bone armor so nails are useless to me because I already have a dozen carts sitting around. I want bones. But Joe next door makes water bags and wants tar so nails and bones are worthless to him.

    My point is everyone has a different idea of what is worth something to them peraonaly. The problem with that scenario is people dont want to spend all their time in game trying to figure out who to trade nails to to get bones so they can trade them to someone else to get nails so they can trade them to get tar so they can get that water bag they so desperatly need. Not to mention that noone wants to haul a cart of tar for a hour to get that waterbag. Thats why we all dont still carry beaver pelts to the grocery store

    This of course leads to the question of what to use and how to introduce it to the game. Most games use NPC traders or mission rewards to inject currency into the game. We dont have that here. The other thing we dont have here is a currency sink. So even if everyone decided bottlecaps were an acceptable form of currency, since we can all go and just dig them up to inject them into the game but have nothing to take them OUT of the game, over a short period of time they will be worthless and that beginners crafting knife will cost you a fortune in bottlecaps.

    Sorry for the length of post, and Im not saying I know everything about the game because as Ive said Ive only been here a week, but Ive played mmo's since MUD's and more than pvp, pve, or any other mechanics of a game, a proper or improper economy can make or break a game.

    Just my 2 cents worth!

    Chris

    You do have part of the idea, however, the idea behind this trading system is that tribes will set up their own currency. Which some have. Its starting to make its way more and more into the world of Xsyon as tribes are setting up currency of their own.

    If you would have said this 2 months ago I might have agreed with you. But I've seen more people agreeing on currency than anything.

    I think to solve this they should allow items to broken down a bit more. Like metal could break down to ore. Losing some of its QL (or weight). People will start to value the ore based on its weight in KG, and the type of ore it is. Chrome likely being the highest.

    Because of the QL factor, I dont see anything becoming a currency though because that wont be fixed. Using my idea of metal being melted down. You could base it on weight, and QL rating is how much the ore is worth.

    1QL nail could melt down to .1 ore. While 100QL nail would melt down to 10ore. (Whatever type that is).
    Same goes for if you looking to make a 100QL nail again you would need say 10 ore.

    You could even go further with this and make it take more to remake the nail. Say 10% more. So you might not want to just metal everything down.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


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