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  1. #1

    Feedback Request - Skill/Stat/Level-up changes

    Hello Survivors,

    The Test server is online with the latest build.

    See the changes here...

    The Developers would like feedback on the following issues...

    skill / stat / level up changes


    • stat gain / loss (too fast, too slow)
    • skill balancing / loss (too much, too little)
    • health based on stats / skills comments

    Please Note: All Stats are gaining at 25 times the normal rate, for Testing.

  2. #2
    Very hard to test it when the server has been down the whole time.

    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    Very hard to test it when the server has been down the whole time.
    The Server is now back online.

  4. #4
    Keep the thread on topic, regarding the feedback requested.

    Thank you.

  5. #5
    Stats and Skill:
    Gained 3.0 stats overall except spirit and intellegence which decreased by 0.1 each only = to less loss of stats in my opinion

    Did some crafts - just a few actions each that i liked to keep up (Tailoring, Basketry, Leathercraft)
    Skill gained from a midd skill (Bonecraft) - it was 45 and now up to 64.. for that i lost 0.2 Weaponcraft (64.6), 0.2 Woodcraft (67.2), 0.4 Firebuilding (5.5) and Wainwright (6.7) by 0.5
    So i lost 1.3 Skillpoints in exchange for getting 19 Skillpoints (I didnt count how many i got from the 3 i wanted to keep up, probably about 3-5 Points more)
    Why i didnt loose any Toolcraft (99.3) or Masonry (39.3) for not beeing used all the time?

    Anyway getting a mid skill at close to a high skill at the cost of a few spread points = way to less loss of skill in my opinion


    I dropped from ~175 (public) to 119 (test-server). (Edit: with my skillpoints used (Clubs 10-72) it would be 129

    If i remember right someone said animals will be more tough to kill.
    So i got throwed back miles with that patch and feel a bit sqishy against animals (I didnt test it now on the test server because when i tested at 04. April test patch it felt the animals HP went down to fast (because of the x25 speed?)

    So you want the HP to balance with the animals along, please.

    New display/notifications on skill and stats:

    Nice display on the new learned bonecraft skills when i was testing.

    But the display on stats only shows the progress being increased while stepping from .0 to .1 and whatever which of the 2 stats go through that step for being used at that for example craft - they are both shown up (Bonecraft = STR / DEX, - DEX went through the .0 to .1 and both be on display). (On public its the same, on test now just with the stats inside the message)
    So the correct message now would be: "Your Strength OR Dexterity have been increased"

    Might preffer a display on every +0.1 stats increase? I would so.

    Architecture = Intellegence & Spirit:

    I get 0.1 increase for Intellegence every 5 or 6 posts i build. Compared with the x25 speed it will be 125-150.

    Dont you consider to give someone creating his hole homestead a few stats points? Most people dont reach even 125-150 for a single stats point.

    Done with testing for now.

    Added at 13:30 PM:

    Experience and Level Up Revisions
    - Level up panel is ready for testing.
    - Leveling up skills gained adjust stats as if gained through actions.
    - Leveling up skills are balanced in order selected.
    - Leveling up skills gained do not gain experience.
    - Actions such as running and swimming do not gain experience.
    How will this work for those people, that allready put their skillpoints in? So can you track down what was used for a skill and rework the stats to what they should be after putting them in? Or do we finally need to make new characters?

    Not to be the negative guy - i preffer this setup alot more than the old one before on the test server

    I just dont see the specialization much in here in meaning of the quality output which still can be boosted to nowhere with stats gear.

    But might be also someone with very high skills at all get better results with testing it.

  6. #6
    Thank you for this feedback so far! The skill balancing has been adjusted already as I caught a problem with it incorrectly measuring the use count to decay least used skills.

    Regarding players that already used past experience points to increase skills, it shouldn't be a big issue. The main goal of these changes are to allow players to adjust their skills and stats over time instead of just increasing them. There will be more opportunites to gain experience points that will allow this happen (quests, using skills already at 100).

    Right now we will continue testing, revising and fixing bugs with the current changes. When we think these changes are ready for the public I will post about it. In the meantime, I look forward to more feedback or issues with what is currently live on the test server.


  7. #7
    Skill window and level up window display different values for a skill. Gained .2 grinding masonry and my 100s in that group remained 100s in the skill window. Going into level up panel, however, my leathercraft, toolcraft, tailoring, basketry, woodworking, all show as 99. I know it drops the decimal in the level up panel, but dropping the .0 from 100.0 shouldn't be 99.

    New info...after making some grass thread, string, etc. I got the shuffling sound and my skill panel reset as if I had gained in a skill. Nothing had changed, but in the level up panel my basketry was now shown as 100. Is this just bad display of a rounded number? Most of my 100s were gotten with the bugged skill panel that didn't update correctly. Had to log out and back in to get it to show the 100s, but maybe it wasn't actually yet at 100, just rounded up?

    After additional testing...
    Using skill points to level up skills is a total farce. Why does it take away other skills when using points? I used points to raise wainwright to 75 and my other skills got socked. Several of my 100s went from 100 to 96.9. The overall skill gained is higher than the skill lost in pure numbers, but in time and resources that is an earth shattering loss. I have already busted my butt gaining the XP to level and have earned those Level up skill points. Level up points should be above and beyond what you have earned via grinding. I thought intent of Leveling up was to represent what your character would be doing while the player is offline, without having to kill yourself grinding 24/7 to get all the skills you want. The old cap of 90 for leveling up a skill with points is even more crippling, as you can't even spend points to fix the damage done raising other skills.

    The other half of the joke is that you gain a good amount of the stat that represents the skill you raise, but what if you don't have any skills left to raise that are influenced by a stat you want? You are stuck raising some crap skill you don't care about that will ruin your other skills that you do want to keep or you simply can't do it (if skills pertinent to your stat are 90+). If you choose not to, your Level up points are totally useless.

    I guess it is best to spend your points in the current live system, before they become almost useless in the new system. (Note to players : Don't do this yet as we don't know what the final version will be like.)

    I can suggest 3 options at the moment. Skill locks a la UO, allow a total reroll of our skills and stats to set us up in the new system without legacy issues, or scrap the entire XP and Level up point system.
    *edit 2* A fourth option is a 100% sure-fire way to prevent loss that doesn't eat up 75% of our playing time just to maintain what we have spent a year getting to.

    Added after 1 6 minutes:

    I did a test simulating a new skill being introduced and using points to level that skill up. From a 5 skill in bonecrafting (4 in the level up panel--?) I raised it to 30 on the first go. A lot of my skills went down, including losing some 100s. I had not used them on test yet so they were obviously flagged as "least used". The bigger issue is that I had 14 recipes and by raising to 30 I had 71/91 schemes. That seems a bit much, no? On the second go, I took it all the way up to 90, and got to 103/107. I don't think the rate of learning schemes needs to be that liberal.

    As far as the "least used" status of a skill issue, I would say we need to have a week on Live to establish our least used and desired skills before the auto-balancing kicks in. If the new counter goes into effect from one day to the next, the first few days after this release are going to be spent doing nothing but establishing our desired skills lest a single gain in a lesser skill destroy our current build.

  8. #8
    Stat gain is faster, skill gain seems to be about the same.

    One thing I dont like is that you cant see the changes unless something hits a full point.
    Also it doesnt say anything when something goes down.

    Stat gains over 100 seem to be working, I couldnt really see the diff in over 90 in a stat or not. Seem to move just as fast.

    I noticed also that skills at 100 did go down just as fast as skills at lower even without training. I believe that lower the skill the faster they should decay because they are easier to get back.

    Hard to test stat changes in combat when no animals on the test server spent about 2 hours looking for animals.

    I love the new display for hunted items and some other bonus items (comfort), so you can see what the bases are. Need a better way to stack rank the skills higher level than others. Losing .1 from 100 to 99.9 takes hours while going from 5.0 to 5.1 takes seconds.

    About getting recipes Drevar that might be for another topic, as I only got 17 out of 35 recipes for wainwright, going from 5 to 90 skill, I started with 1. I think it might be something to do with your stats which might tie into this.
    In which case I would be happy if this was from having high stats vs low stats.
    Soon recipes will be easy to get with getting recipes after 100.

    About the using skill points through the level up panel this is good 1 problem I see is that if I lose a skill from 100 to 99. I cant use the exp to train it back up. So seems like the best thing to do is keep your skills around 90. When really it should be 100.

    Next thing is that how do I change my stats? I believe leveling up and older vets should be able to have options to change stats based on their levels of exp, and when you level up with exp. This will allow people to have more control of what they want to focus, able to do things outside their primary stats/skills and able to make it back up using skill from exp level ups, and stat points from exp level up.

    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

  9. #9
    The reason high level skills can decay right now at the same rate as low level skills is to allow players to shift from one profession to another (and not be stuck with the high level skills blocking them from fast gains in other skills).

    It's a dilemna and I think the best solution is skill locks as mentioned above. I'm working on that right now. When it's done we'll be ready for more proper testing.

  10. #10
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Vienna, Austria
    Well for players with many high skills it will be like Drevar described - they will loose some of their high skills to level them "back" to "late starters". Eventually some will find themselfs as "generic" crafters at (some) high levels and some will pursue a more specialised crafting career and become the most famous "high end" crafters.

    I believe that sacrificing the "everone can be excellent at everything" for a more divers world is a good step.
    If I have to give up (or in that case loose) some high skills for that new world order, I am fine with it

    However it is already quite hard to find a player with a high-end forestry skill that would collect VHQ/Master branches for me ... I hope that this will change? It quite depends on how fast people can swing between gathering skills - and if scavenging/forestry/foraging/resources/logging/hunting exclude each other, or its just about the crafting skills...

    I very much like the interdependencies in the crafting skills - like needing master cloth straps to create master tools/weapons, master leather straps for master bone/cloth armor (and some tools). Today there is practically no trading of these "basic prepared" materials I think and hope that this will change with the new system.

    Locking of one/some skills would still be very nice and give players more control about how they want their character to envolve!

    Thank you for your work on the game - I like the direction the game is going
    "Thou shalt not follow the null pointer, for chaos and madness await thee at its end."

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