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  1. #1

    Final Feedback Request: Skills, Stats, Quests

    I would like some final feedback on the coming Skills / Stats / Quest patch.

    In particular:

    1) Stability. How do ping rates, loading times, lag and desynch compare with the main server? Are you getting any or frequent disconnects?

    2) Movement speed. Base movement speed has been increased. Movement speed dependant now on the following factors:
    - Agility
    - Running or swimming skill
    - Current energy level
    - Surface (movement speed on roads has been increased)
    - Encumbrance

    Do any of these factors seem to have too much or too little effect?

    3) Skills set to minus. I have received conflicting feedback on whether stats should be gained on skills that are set to minus. This is an easy switch to make and can be set either way.

    I am tending towards allowing stat gain on skills set to minus as this allows players more flexibility to build stats independent of their high level or gaining skills.

    Currently on the test server skills set to minus are set to not gain stats. This is change from the previous build (and reversion to the earlier setting).

    4) Are there any critical issues that would prevent this patch from going live?

    Note: The UI art on the Test Server is not correct. Please ignore this. The correct artwork can't be patched out until this build is made fully live, as the artwork would affect the current main server UI.

    Notice: The Test Server is set for In House Testing only for a few hours while we work on a few things. I will post again when it's open for Public Testing, and it will be noted on the launcher.

  2. #2
    Here is a full list of what is in this coming patch:

    IOCP
    IOCP system for improved connectivity and command processing.

    Combat
    Per player position thread to reduce combat lag
    Creatures can attack in water (animations not implemented)

    Skills
    Skill tracker working
    Resource skills revised for balanced use of all stats
    Terraforming moved to the resources group
    Wainwright moved to the construction skill group
    Schemes can be gained beyond skill 100
    Unlearn based on current skill level (you can unlearn auto learn recipes if your skill has dropped)
    Schemes can be gained on level up
    Working skill soft cap
    Skill balancing reduction after gains beyond soft cap
    Action skills not soft capped
    Construction not soft capped
    Balanced decay on least used 4 skills
    Skill decay chooses skills set to minus first (as if they had 0 recent uses)
    Skill locking system
    - Normal: skill can increase or decrease
    - Minus: skill locked for decay only. Stats will not gain when using this
    - Locked: Can’t change. Stats will gain when using this skill
    - Plus: Can increase only. Stats will gain when using this skill
    - 2 skills can be locked
    Skill recent use count displayed as a tooltip on skill locks

    Stats
    Stats can be adjusted through a stat adjustment panel up to four times. This may be reduced to less times for now and we will increase the count every time we make significant changes such as adding more skills.
    Agility bonuses affect movement speed.
    Current energy affects movement speed.
    Surface effect on movement speed adjusted.
    Running and swimming skills affect movement speed.
    Agility affects combat speed (including bonuses)
    Base movement increased
    Max movement increased
    Strength including bonuses affects encumbrance
    Encumbrance minimum increased
    Encumbrance maximum increased
    Stat gain on all skill actions regardless of setting
    Minor fixes to the stat panel display
    Balanced decay on least used 4 stats
    Stats above normal display as green in stat panel

    Health
    Health based on stats and skills
    Health (hit points) shows as a value on hover

    Experience
    Gained per action not skill gain
    Stats can be gained through the level up panel for skills that are increased using experience points as ifthose skill were actually used

    Quests
    Quest expiration
    Expired quest removes quest from questor
    Quest limit
    Quest quality
    Craft and hunt quest require you to craft and hunt the delivered goal items
    View and drop quests from Tribe Quest Panel
    Improved quest panels
    Quests show tribe and creator
    Quests give experience based on
    - Type of quest
    - Difficulty of item
    - Amount of item
    - Quality of item
    - Distance between tribes
    Experience for both questor and creator

    Scroll bar
    Fixed scroll bars for all panels
    Town member scroll bar
    Town rank scroll bar

    Interface
    New interface panel art implemented (in progress)
    Walk mode default key bindset to G
    Chat reply default key bindset to R

    Chat
    Pressing R allows automatic reply to last whisper
    Whispers show more clear who you are whispering to receiving a whisper from

    Items
    Hunted items give bonus based on power of creature killed
    Materialitems display possible bonus in tooltip
    Mergingstacks should properly balance bonus power (for hunted items). Quality and duration should also balance as usual
    Splitting and merging stacks should properly balance bonus power, quality and duration.

    Tribe
    Confirm menu on abandoning tribe.
    Players must collect quests before abandoning a tribe.
    Quest for a deleted or removed character are deleted.

    World
    Scrap surface requires clearing before paving or terraforming.

    Bugs
    Long text message rendering fixed
    Npc removal crash fixed
    Tribe names can accept spaces.

  3. #3
    Here is a list of skill and stat associations (including skills planned for the near future)

    Resources
    Fishing: Dexterity Intelligence
    Hunting: Agility Dexterity
    Logging: Strength Agility
    Terraforming: Fortitude Strength
    Scavenging: Charm Perception
    Forestry: Spirit Charm
    Foraging: Intelligence Spirit
    Resources: Perception Fortitude

    Combat
    Unarmed: Strength Agility
    Armed: Strength Dexterity
    Parry: Agility Intelligence
    Dual Wield: Agility Perception (Future Skill)
    Block: Fortitude Strength (Future Skill)
    Resist: Fortitude Spirit (Future Skill)
    Throw: Dexterity Charm (Future Skill)
    Archery: Dexterity Perception (Future Skill)

    Axes: Strength Fortitude
    Blades: Agility Dexterity
    Clubs: Strength Fortitude
    Picks: Fortitude Strength
    Poles: Fortitude Strength (Future Skill)
    Staves: Agility Spirit (Future Skill)
    Bows: Dexterity Perception (Future Skill)
    Spears: Dexterity Charm (Future Skill)

    Crafts
    Basketry: Agility Spirit
    Bonecraft: Fortitude Charm
    Leathercraft: Strength Perception
    Tailoring: Dexterity Agility
    ToolCraft: Intelligence Fortitude
    Weaponcraft: Perception Strength
    FireBuilding: Spirit Intelligence
    TalismanCraft: Charm Dexterity (Future Skill)
    Masonry: Fortitude Charm
    Woodcraft: Agility Spirit
    Scrapcraft: Perception Strength (Future Skill)
    Bowcraft: Dexterity Intelligence (Future Skill)

    Construction
    Architecture Intelligence Spirit
    Wainwright Dexterity Strength

  4. #4
    1. Ping rates seem the same as on live. The only issue in this category I had was that the UI while crafting seemed much less responsive. It may have just been a fluke or something to due with Test server resources (I was the only one on, though). Basically I would right click materials to add to the crafting UI and sometimes it just would not take. I would have to click again and then wait for it to show up in the craft UI. On live I can go quite quickly, and only if the last crafting result is slightly lagged will the next click not register. The inventory UI is totally hosed, hehe, but that is due to the missing new artwork..I hope..LOL

    2. The relevant stats for this are mediocre, so I didn't notice a big change in speed, etc.

    3. Gaining stats while - is fine, but either way will work for me. Just go with what you want

    4. Nothing critical but there are a few issue I hope will be addressed:

    Firstly the notes need to be clarified a bit on a couple of points.
    "Skill decay chooses skills set to minus first (as if they had 0 recent uses)" This is not entirely true..it simply forces the effective recent uses to 0 so that it becomes ONE of the least used skills that CAN decay/balance. It does not force decay on that one skill over all others. I really think it should bias that skill to decay first, over and to the exclusion of all others until there are no more points left in that skill.
    "-Minus: skill locked for decay only. Stats will not gain when using this" and "Stat gain on all skill actions regardless of setting" sort of conflict...
    There is no mention of the stat reallocation feature. (Or is this purely for testing? Seems odd that it would have limited uses if only for testing )

    My biggest issue, however, is with the changes in stats and skill not updating as they happen and rounding causing wrong skill amount to display...still. This is an old issue and the more possible changes that can occur the worse this "bug" affects us. Stats do not update except on full integer changes or on skill gain. If you are in the upper 90s you can gain/lose several stats and not see it until you gain the next .1 skill or manage to roll the stat over to a whole number. This has made tracking the changes a bit hard on test. The other part is that the balancing appears to reduce skills in increments less than the .1 displayed, resulting in a displayed value that is deceptive. I can gain a couple of .1 in a skill and the others remain at 100, but if I toggle a lock it suddenly updates the list and several skills then fall to 99.9. The uses also does not update until a refresh is forced via skill gain or toggling the locks.

    I am not sure what caused this, but using the skill up panel was acting a bit wierd. With wainwright at 47.1 I would spend 5 SP (1 skill point) and click level up. I would get the system message for raising the skill *twice* and my total would then be something like 49.4. I could repeat this over and and over, each bump of wainwright by 1 point would result in 2 points gained, effectively saving me many many points. On the other hand, raising weapon crafting 1 point from 83.5 resulted in a flat 84.0. I haven't checked on live recently, but I know before it would simply add 1 point and carry whatever decimal existed over and then sometimes crafting once after using the skill up would result in an immediate gain. Not sure if this is simply applying that gain instantly now rather than saving it up and waiting for a force skill gain check through use.

  5. #5
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    194
    Bug:
    -) The quest panel in tribes (own and others) cause the client to stop receiving data from the server (probably only if quests are available).

    -) graphics in the baskets are still broken (basket grid does not match position of items), pouches are really off ...

    Response time / Lag seems ok for me.

    Drevar:

    If I would speculated (which I love doing btw) I would say that spending points in a skill is like doing "20" actions in that skill - so you would get (depending on INT and other things) quite random results with raising the skill. So its no longer "raise skill by 1 point" but rather like "simulate to do about 20 skill uses" when you apply XP points to a skill. Xsyon should probably be able to elaborate on that

    Skills and Stats: this sort of really messes everything up ! I created my toon to be a good basketry (at that point needing PERC, INT and DEX) - so my STR/AGI/FORT are normal where my CHARM has dropped to 0.4 (from 10) - I did a lot of foraging/basketry ... so now with the changes every skill I aimed for, will be in direct conflict with the Stats I have gained/lost the last 10 months.

    Will there be any chance for the veteran players to adjust to the new situation (like the interface on test ... be able to redistribute the stats - probably only once) ? That would really be nice!
    "Thou shalt not follow the null pointer, for chaos and madness await thee at its end."

  6. #6
    Guessing that is exactly what it is for, otherwise why would it have a limited number of uses (4) if it was soley for testing?

    It is kind of broken at the moment, though. When you choose to reset your stats it drops the decimal values you had and makes them all XX.0 Not fun if you have say 99.9 and reset and end up with 99.0

  7. #7
    IOCP
    IOCP system for improved connectivity and command processing.
    +
    My ping went from 125-140 to 105-120 and it doesnt seem to be hopping much

    Combat
    Creatures can attack in water (animations not implemented)
    Good job!
    Mule Deers look a bit funny for now!






    Skills

    Working skill soft cap
    Balanced decay on least used 4 skills
    Skill decay chooses skills set to minus first (as if they had 0 recent uses)
    Skill locking system
    - Normal: skill can increase or decrease
    - Minus: skill locked for decay only. Stats will not gain when using this
    - Locked: Can’t change. Stats will gain when using this skill
    - Plus: Can increase only. Stats will gain when using this skill
    - 2 skills can be locked
    Skill recent use count displayed as a tooltip on skill locks
    Feels like that the amount of decay from different skills by using a very high skill (~99) is less than using a middle skill (~65).. Why? Isee the point on still getting everything up to 100, but i think its to less decay for the least used skills of using very high skills

    Stats
    Agility bonuses affect movement speed.
    Current energy affects movement speed.
    Surface effect on movement speed adjusted.
    Running and swimming skills affect movement speed.
    Agility affects combat speed (including bonuses)
    Base movement increased
    Max movement increased
    +
    Movement feels alot better now, more fluent compared to the old one!
    Also seems to be better balanced. Jumping is not anymore a need to be faster, for me at least

    Edit:
    -
    Agility seems to be to much of a factor to combat speed

    Strength including bonuses affects encumbrance
    Encumbrance minimum increased
    Encumbrance maximum increased
    +
    I like this change, specialy for hunting.. Now we are not overload of encumbrance after looting a single animal



    Experience
    Added myself:
    4 times Stats point repick
    I think 4 times is to much, 2 could be enough.
    But i do agree as there are alot changes

    --
    All stats will drop the decimals to .0 if i do a repick, even if i changed only 1 stat
    --

    If you remove stats from beyond 90, lets say 95 i cant add them to other stats beyond 90. So stats repick only works for stats below 90?

    I mean if there is a chance to repick you should give the chance to repick for all those changes on crafting skills.

    Example:
    Now a scav specialized guy can swap his stats from perception (100.0) to charm (0.8)

    So he can only put that stat up to 90 and all his work beeing the scav guy starts from the begin?

    Thats the bad point i still see with this





    But so far very nice work!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevar View Post
    1. Ping rates seem the same as on live. The only issue in this category I had was that the UI while crafting seemed much less responsive. It may have just been a fluke or something to due with Test server resources (I was the only one on, though). Basically I would right click materials to add to the crafting UI and sometimes it just would not take. I would have to click again and then wait for it to show up in the craft UI. On live I can go quite quickly, and only if the last crafting result is slightly lagged will the next click not register. The inventory UI is totally hosed, hehe, but that is due to the missing new artwork..I hope..LOL
    My ping goes from ~143ms down to ~126ms. So a decrease of about 16ms.
    What Drevar describes can be observed on main server, too! It happens right after your skill increased (also a sound is played), then the first right click is ignored on next crafting.

    I made a chart of the new Skill & Stats relation (see attached image).

    greetz,
    Tybor

    Added after 1 10 minutes:

    Hi,

    During skill lock testing, it happened that I missed some skills in my skill window! I found out, that these skill are below 5.0 and therefor not showed in skill window.
    They were shown in skill point distribution window as 4 (see attached screenshots).

    So I increased them by adding some skill points to them and they were visible again after relogging.

    Now I tried again to lower a skill (Hunting) and although in skill window it was limited with 5.0, the skill distribution window showed 4!!

    So it is possible to decrease a skill below 5.0 (although I think only happens on test because of increase usage rate).

    greetz,
    Tybor

  9. #9
    So far looks great.
    There are some minor bugs, but nothing major.

    I love the new base movement speed increase. Having 10AGI is sorta an option now.

    Thanks for the update on crafting skills, and future skills that will help a lot in planning.

    Ping is better, about 50ms now steady vs 65ms with some changes.

    Attack speed with AGI is now much better before (on test) it was much to strong now its been balanced its good.

    STR effect on weight very nice, much better overall for all players.

    Fort has a good effect now, I think it can use a little buff.

    Hard to see live stat/skill changes rates will be like, so might have to balance that out on live on the speed of stats/skills.

    Stat soft cap is good (almost a dead stop at 125 right?)

    I think that combat stats are still a little to effective for crafters. (STR/FORT/AGI) They are going to be a large choice in most crafting while they should be less of a choice. PER/CHA/SPI/INT/DEX should have more of an effect in crafting. While the combat stats would have more effects in combat area.
    What I would do is change it around so that mostly primary stats in crafting are from the crafting stats (PER/CHA/SPI/INT/DEX) and the secondary are combat stats (STR/FORT/AGI) for crafting. Then in the combat area, it should be the other way. Primary stats for combat weapons should be STR/FORT/AGI mostly, and secondary should be crafting stats (PER/CHA/SPI/INT/DEX).
    Resources should be good mix of the 2 types. Neither focused on combat or crafting.

    One thing I noticed is that its hard to see which stats go DOWN. You can see when they go up a full point. But cant see which were lowered.

    Combat lag is a lot better, movement speed seems good.


    Like Drevar says, I dont see the recent uses updating correctly. Also hard to see which stats are being changed with what skills when you use them as they dont update correctly until you remove an item and stuff.


    tomduril,
    You get 4 times you can fully change your stats around. There is a + near your skills + that allows you to do this. I believe this is what you were asking for.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  10. #10
    Notice: The Test Server is set for In House Testing only for a few hours while we work on a few things. I will post again when it's open for Public Testing, and it will be noted on the launcher.

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