Armor Nerf Issue!

[Tesla]

I have debated on whether or not to respond to this thread. I do have an opinion that most of you will not agree with, but thats fine. You asked, so here it is. Like some of you, I was upset when I learned that my mats were nerfed and I wouldn't be able to craft a super suit like others I have seen in game. You see, I missed the curve and was not focused on crafting at the time these +80 suits were being made. But now i can make supreme armor but the stats are no where near my old vhq suits.

But, one statement from Jordi's recent answers to the weekly question stands out to me. "None of the game systems were designed for stats in the range of 150-200". This is all I need to hear. I can move on now. I trust that Jordi knows his game better than I do. The new crafting revisions and hopefully an armor decay system may work well to address concerns with economy. I have no desire to crunch numbers or get into a debate on the specifics. For me it is simple, when I no longer enjoy playing, I will move on. But I have high hopes for Xsyon and will be patient.

[MrDDT]

I have debated on whether or not to respond to this thread. I do have an opinion that most of you will not agree with, but thats fine. You asked, so here it is. Like some of you, I was upset when I learned that my mats were nerfed and I wouldn't be able to craft a super suit like others I have seen in game. You see, I missed the curve and was not focused on crafting at the time these +80 suits were being made. But now i can make supreme armor but the stats are no where near my old vhq suits.

But, one statement from Jordi's recent answers to the weekly question stands out to me. "None of the game systems were designed for stats in the range of 150-200". This is all I need to hear. I can move on now. I trust that Jordi knows his game better than I do. The new crafting revisions and hopefully an armor decay system may work well to address concerns with economy. I have no desire to crunch numbers or get into a debate on the specifics. For me it is simple, when I no longer enjoy playing, I will move on. But I have high hopes for Xsyon and will be patient.

Even after the change / nerf players will have over 150 in a stat just FYI.

[Drevar]

That begs the question, then, if it was not designed with 150+ stats in mind, then was it intended for someone with a skill rating in the Moderate range to be able to create gear putting players at the intended stat maximum?

[lordadamar]

The nerf was because the # was to high, not really the effect according to what Xsyon posted. He sees that +80 is too high of a bonus.

The reason why everyone (pretty much) will be using the STR/FOR/AGI/SPI is because the effects they have on everyday play.

STR effects how much you can carry
FOR effects how long you can do actions (crafting, running, attacking)
AGI effects basic movement speed
SPI effects exp gain


Also you can easy put all 4 of those on items using animal parts.
SPI is pretty much going to be on anything that has ANY animal part once mutants are back in due to the way they are buffed everytime from mutant parts.

The above mentioned stats are mention and complained about because they adversely effect attack, damage and survivability for the most part...

But so will the stats that do not work as intended at the moment, i.e.

1. All resistances
2. Damage
3. Armor
4. Speed
5. Healing

If these worked, which they do not now, most of the bitching would stop because you wouldnt need to always have STR/FOR/AGI/SPI at above optimal levels to be effective.

I think his cap on STR/FOR/AGI/SPI is a somewhat arbitrary number aimed at slowing world depletion of animals, and thats it because none of the other game systems function at a 100% or were designed to function quick enough to maintain a heavily populated world..

Its really not a question of NERFED stats, it a question on too many stats not working... What will happen when my armor actually adds +50 to armor and +45 to damage ( probably another nerf ). You wont need master or supreme armor to be effective just good adds....

Trade would increase if all the other stats actually meant something if they could actually tip the scale in a new player living or dieing...

I understand and sympathize with Vets and the complaints on the changes, I have quit many MMO's that turn into WoW clones and took the thought and customizations away from the players instead of finding better ways they took easier ways... It was to much change at once in an already unbalanced system, But I think you would agree that if all other stats worked as intended it would have been less painful...

[Mactavendish]

I am convinced that this thread and most others that complain ( including my posts as well ) are a total waste of time. If he listens to the very few players that post here, he is already making a big mistake as we surely DO NOT represent the average player nor most of those that came and went already.

There is also the fact that, very few will be at the very top of this game due to simpler things than non-working stats or abilities. ( although I agree with ya for the most part adamar )

1. Most are not that driven. ( this is after all, JUST A GAME )

2. Crafting in general is very tedious. ( delete made items 1 at a time anyone? )

3. Other obvious problems that have left this game with maybe 50 players max.

4. Most things are balanced against the player on the heavy side. ( stats, gains, rewards, resources, effort to accomplishment. )

It is still funny to me that the players complaining the loudest, are the alpha types which make up less than 1% of the player base.

I hope that Jordi will just stick to what he wants to do, and not listen to me OR ddt, and just make what he wants. We can all decide if we like it or not and choose accordingly.

[MrDDT]

The above mentioned stats are mention and complained about because they adversely effect attack, damage and survivability for the most part...

But so will the stats that do not work as intended at the moment, i.e.

1. All resistances
2. Damage
3. Armor
4. Speed
5. Healing

If these worked, which they do not now, most of the bitching would stop because you wouldnt need to always have STR/FOR/AGI/SPI at above optimal levels to be effective.

I think his cap on STR/FOR/AGI/SPI is a somewhat arbitrary number aimed at slowing world depletion of animals, and thats it because none of the other game systems function at a 100% or were designed to function quick enough to maintain a heavily populated world..

Its really not a question of NERFED stats, it a question on too many stats not working... What will happen when my armor actually adds +50 to armor and +45 to damage ( probably another nerf ). You wont need master or supreme armor to be effective just good adds....

Trade would increase if all the other stats actually meant something if they could actually tip the scale in a new player living or dieing...

I understand and sympathize with Vets and the complaints on the changes, I have quit many MMO's that turn into WoW clones and took the thought and customizations away from the players instead of finding better ways they took easier ways... It was to much change at once in an already unbalanced system, But I think you would agree that if all other stats worked as intended it would have been less painful...

First off there is no way for you or I to know what those bonuses (not stats) will be like.
Next is that it doesnt change the fact that the bonus themselves are an issue of worth vs time. If a player with 50 skill can craft 95% as effective as someone with 100 skill and it takes 10 hours to get to 50 skill and 500 hours to get to 100 skill, plus being limited to only 4 skills at 100 vs 8 skills at 50 you can clearly see an issue here of value.


I dont know what +50 armor means. But if you did +45 damage then armor would still be effective based on QL because it removes damage based on a %, if you dont have a high % resist you would be killed in 1 or 2 hits vs 3 or 4 hits.


I think you are missing the point of what the 25 stat cap means. Its about its effect and worth AND LACK OF CHOICE. Everyone will have the same stats due to the CAP, which is easy to reach.

Added after 9 minutes:

I am convinced that this thread and most others that complain ( including my posts as well ) are a total waste of time. If he listens to the very few players that post here, he is already making a big mistake as we surely DO NOT represent the average player nor most of those that came and went already.

There is also the fact that, very few will be at the very top of this game due to simpler things than non-working stats or abilities. ( although I agree with ya for the most part adamar )

1. Most are not that driven. ( this is after all, JUST A GAME )

2. Crafting in general is very tedious. ( delete made items 1 at a time anyone? )

3. Other obvious problems that have left this game with maybe 50 players max.

4. Most things are balanced against the player on the heavy side. ( stats, gains, rewards, resources, effort to accomplishment. )

It is still funny to me that the players complaining the loudest, are the alpha types which make up less than 1% of the player base.

I hope that Jordi will just stick to what he wants to do, and not listen to me OR ddt, and just make what he wants. We can all decide if we like it or not and choose accordingly.

Unlike you Mac, I understand the crafting, combat, and building system very well. I'm also not looking to just buff myself or just care about myself. When I read your posts, its about ME ME ME. You dont really care about things that are not happening to you. Which is fine, I agree with a lot of people posting their own opinions. Devs need to read that and understand its coming from your point of view.

When I post MANY MANY times its to nerf something that is of a great advantage to me, for the better of the game.

Also like this post, I'm posting this because most people dont understand the effect this is going to have on the game, effects that are not even directly buffing OR nerfing me. This nerf to armor is nerfing CRAFTING (Bonecraftings, Leathercraftings and Tailors).
Granted I am a leathercrafter and a tailor but its not my focus. As most of you know COMBAT is my focus.


If you guys let this go, and just think I'm just huffing and puffing you will not see that this is the biggest mistake so far that I've seen in game. Even worse than the mess up with tools, and even worse than the mess up with killing animals in water. This here will bring down the whole crafting system as bad as adding more of a grind to it.

Grind of crafting is likely one of the worst parts of this game, its boring. The ONLY hope people had was being good at something after all the hard work. If you grind for 1000 hours to get your stats and skills to the correct level and understanding of how crafting worked only to see a +2% damage bonus, you will be very sad, and likely even before you put all that work into it you are likely to quit.

I understand a lot of you are not at this level yet, but a few are. The few that understand crafting and how it works with trading.


Anyways, I'm going to leave this thread here post what you want and your opinions I'm glad for everyone that chimed in, I'm just making it known where I stand and why. Ive said a lot of things and bitched about a lot of stuff, this here is the worst.

Any questions about crafting and asking for my opinion I will surely post, but I dont want to kick a dead horse.

Final thoughts.

This isnt about a # of +80 needing to be on armor. Its about WORTH of items. If crafters that are mid level or avg crafters are making near top end gear very easy there will be issues with trade and crafters wanting to be crafters. If the effect vs time is kept near it is now to make lack luster effects on gear after putting 1000s of hours into it, crafters will stop trading with gatherers and hunters will not need anything from crafters.

[lordadamar]

Im not going to argue semantics on stats meaning bonus' or what ever the fook..

Any Number im trying to craft for whether its +4.8 to damage or 2.0 to STR is a stat.

If these appeared in stat window as jordi says they will soon with crafting fix would you still call them a bonus?

So refrain from nit picking...

I know exactly what your point was with the cap, and offered an alternative saying what if these stats worked, And common sense would assume that
Armor = defense
Damage = dps
Speed = in which you attack
Healing - Regen rate

These skills alone would create a need for people to mix and match a seek out players who can make items with these adds... And void the fact that the +25 gain effects them..

[MrDDT]

Im not going to argue semantics on stats meaning bonus' or what ever the fook..

Any Number im trying to craft for whether its +4.8 to damage or 2.0 to STR is a stat.

If these appeared in stat window as jordi says they will soon with crafting fix would you still call them a bonus?

So refrain from nit picking...

I know exactly what your point was with the cap, and offered an alternative saying what if these stats worked, And common sense would assume that
Armor = defense
Damage = dps
Speed = in which you attack
Healing - Regen rate

These skills alone would create a need for people to mix and match a seek out players who can make items with these adds... And void the fact that the +25 gain effects them..

It wouldnt void anything.
It would simply swap the "bonus".
Also I wasnt trying to "nitpick" I was making it clear so people get less confused. Just like you saying "skills" above. When it should be "bonus"

Anyways it would add some flavor to the mix however, people will still pick the best 5 "bonus" for them. Being there is only a few real choices due to balancing and other issues, most people will be in the same gear.

Meaning if Healing is very powerful, just about everyone will have that bonus PLUS 4 others.

The old system made it where you could have 1 very very strong bonus using very very rare mats, or you could mix them using less rare mats. Also stacking 1 type of stat (or in the new cause it would be bonus) had diminishing returns.
It was in a sense a true version of choice. Still had balancing issues, but 1)Balancing issues are more clear in it {Hey look 90% of the server is wear XYZ type of bonus}. Plus allowed people to mix and match how they saw fit. Also the effect was able to overall greater.

Its like you are a DEX player (from what I understand), so instead of stacking DEX you will be FORCED to stack DEX/XYZ/YZX/XXY/YZA if you want the best armor. Sure you can mix that up with maybe a little YYX, or YYZ but you are still forced in stacking stats you dont really care for, and might not even fit fully into your play-style. This averages everyone out to the same type of builds.

Anyways, really no point in explaining this to you, I can see you are going to reject it either way even when I can tell you don't understand the system nor the reasons why. I can explain more, but really no point.

If more want to chime in I will be happy to answer any questions and field any comments.

[Xsyon]

My main problem is the effect of stats, and the fact that you are forced into 3 or 4 stat types on your armor other than crafting suits.

Now everyone is going to be running around in the EXACT same armor as everyone else, with pretty close to the same EXACT stats.

People are going to Have 25STR/25AGI/25FOR/25SPI armor on because of your nerf, and just about everyone will have pretty much max STR/FOR/AGI because its so overpowering.

On top of this, getting the quad type of gear is very easy to make, sure might not have 25 in every stat but going to have 15+ which means that even crafters who are crap, and gatherers who are crap will be able to get these suits.

This is not how the changes are going to work. As stated before the current 25 point limit is temporary and does NOT reflect the full system changes we are working on. It was a quick change to adjust overall stat limits before revenants were released. Players will not be able to wear suits that add 25 to those four stats.

When our revisions are in place I will solicit feedback and we will make appropriate adjustments. At the moment, this is all pure false speculation and only serves to distract from our development. Because of this I am locking this thread.