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  1. #1

    Architecture - broken or not?

    I could have posted this on the weekly questions part, but the question is a bit too long and requires some elaboration.

    Background
    After seeing all these posts about people not learning as many recipes in architecture as they would like I came to think about my own experiences from it after May 2012. I checked my spreadsheets and could verify that no character started after 2012 had a lot of recipes. The best stat was held by my "jack-of-all-trades" with 32 recipes at level 92. Some of those were learned from paper though. Hardly scientific stuff.

    I decided to start out fresh with a new character. I created Shiela and gave her 90 INT/SPI which are supposed to be primary and secondary stats for Architecture. My first question was in what way, except for the maximum number of recipes you can learn, they affect architecture, my only hope was that they somehow was connected to in what rate you pick up new recipes. While grinding it I kept tabs on new recipes. What I found is on parity with other players experiences.

    The way I did it was to just build the same type of post all the time. I had a large supply of materials lying in a basket and started out. I noticed the difference in quality of the long posts mattered when it came to how many times I could re-use the same post when dismantling. The number of re-uses never changed while the architecture skill increased. Perhaps its tied to another skill (woodworking) or no skill at all.

    Quality Re-uses
    Junk-Low 1
    Moderate-High 2
    Very High 3


    I forgot to record the number of uses for the skill the first 70 levels, that's why it appear at level 70. Will perhaps continue to level past 80 but not sure I can motivate myself to do it...

    Level New Total Uses
    5-10 10 13
    11-20 2 15
    21-30 1 16
    31-40 1 17
    41-50 0 17
    51-60 0 17
    61-70 0 17 577
    71-75 0 17 668
    76-80 1 18 776



    Conclusion
    Not sure what to say about the results so far more than it is a huge difference between skills when it comes to the ratio of learning new recipes. Tailoring/Toolcraft/Weaponcraft/Leatherworking/Bonecraft are all very easy to pick up new recipes. Tailoring is exceptionally easy where you very fast hit the maximum number of recipes.

    If the design is like this and intentional than I'm very curious as to why specifically architecture was chosen?
    Last edited by Azzym; 01-03-2013 at 10:50 AM.

  2. #2
    I have the same obsevation and question. It seems like the Devs wanted to make architecture schemes very rare so as to create an economy around Arch BP's. If that's the case, fine, what can you do. But I don't like it as an Architect who grinded to 90 for essentially nothing --at least make the grind worthwhile. As it is now it most definitely is not. To rob the benifits of a long skill grind to make the rescipes for that skill very rare does not make sense to me. That's like saying screw you Achitects the economy is more important than your investment in this skill. There should be plenty of other ways to stimulate the economy.
    Last edited by wastelandstoic; 01-03-2013 at 10:33 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by wastelandstoic View Post
    I have the same obsevation and question. It seems like the Devs wanted to make architecture schemes very rare so as to create an economy around Arch BP's. If that's the case, fine, what can you do. But I don't like it as an Architect who grinded to 90 for essentially nothing --at least make the grind worthwhile. As it is now it most definitely is not. To rob the benifits of a long skill grind to make the rescipes for that skill very rare does not make sense to me. That's like saying screw you Achitects the economy is more important than your investment in this skill. There should be plenty of other ways to stimulate the economy.
    The economy aspect of it can't be the reason. If all skills had been the same then yes, but not single out one or two skills.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzym View Post
    The economy aspect of it can't be the reason. If all skills had been the same then yes, but not single out one or two skills.
    Why cant they have a single 1 or 2 skills have harder recipes to get than others?

    Really also when 1 or 2 of those skills are not even in the same pools as others?
    I think from an economy standpoint it would be really well to make rare recipes for Architecture.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  5. #5
    I'm not opposed to rare recipes for Architecture I'm just a little off put that with a 90 Arch skill I have, from that investment, 33 total recipes and six of those were donated to me by my tribe, so 27 earned from the grind. I was going to comment on those 27 but lets just say there is nothing there worth mentioning or that I will build, other than the post to grind the skill with.

    A rare Architecture recipe would be Metal plated Dome Roof or Decorative Limestone Floor NOT Mason Brick Wall or Log Wall I, IMO.

    Here's an idea or two:

    How about letting the novice Architect pick a speciality and that speciality would greatly influence the recipes roll as he gains new recipes from grinding so that by 90 he might just have a good percentage of the recipes in that group (IE Bamati, Gadu, Pioneer, Mason etc..)

    And/Or at say 70+ skill allow Architects (with the specific gatherd componets, of course) to create a BP from their set of known BP's and trade it for ones that they do not know.

    Any Architect of 90 skill should have several walls, floors and roofs to choose from not to mention a few platforms, tents, etc. Not a repitore of stick and grass ruffage. If there is a need for rare Architecture pieces (to stimulate the economy) in addition, create some that are decorative and status like pieces and make these very rare.

    Just some player input here, and my opinion only. I think I'm moving on to try some other skill sets.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    Why cant they have a single 1 or 2 skills have harder recipes to get than others?

    Really also when 1 or 2 of those skills are not even in the same pools as others?
    I think from an economy standpoint it would be really well to make rare recipes for Architecture.
    Of course they can choose any skill they like to be a bit harder. I'm just curious as to IF this is intentional or if it is accidental.

    If it is intentional it raises the question if it relates to economy and that in turn raises many more questions. Why on earth put all those recipes for tailoring, leatherworking, bonecraft, toolcraft, weaponcraft in the junkpiles if I sure as hell get them anyway when grinding? If economy/trade had been the explanation it would make much more sense to make all skills equally hard. That would surely stimulate the recipe-market anyway. As it is today I wouldn't even want a cart-load of recipes other than for architecture/wainwright (and a few other exceptions).


    And the other aspect DDT is what wastelandstoic puts his finger on. As a master architect it is today possible to be totally unaware of concepts like "Gates" and or various building styles. Stone? Wow, can you build walls using it? Hmm, this gate thing, what's it for? What's wrong with stamped earth? Doesn't sound like a master architect to me, sounds like someone who skipped Architecture 101 and the rest of the courses all the way up to exam.

  7. #7
    Xsyon Citizen
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    I too have noticed this and would like to know if its intentional. Espicially as the guides have a Architecture compition on this month.

    I have got my Architecture up to 94 skill and still have only 34 BP's (6 or so given by my Tribe). I was also out for a few hours scavanging with (80+ skill) to only recive 1 BP whilst getting 6 Tool recipes and a few Leather and Tailoring recipe's.

  8. #8
    I always felt that to build wooden structures, arch and woodworking should be required, and like for brick/stone structures, masonry and arch (metalsmithing/arch for the metal type structures)...where the type of buildings you make are determined by other skills, not just arch. The quaility of final structure to be product of quality of materials used. Of course alot of refining and thought would need to go into it, but those are the basics of my idea.


    EDIT: To determine which schemes you could learn would be a combination of those skills...sort of like cart making. Anyone could scavenge any scheme...but to use it reqired a certain skill level in one or more skills.
    Last edited by Deacon; 01-04-2013 at 04:38 PM.
    The truth will set you free....but first it will realy piss you off !!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon View Post
    I always felt that to build wooden structures, arch and woodworking should be required, and like for brick/stone structures, masonry and arch (metalsmithing/arch for the metal type structures)...where the type of buildings you make are determined by other skills, not just arch. The quaility of final structure to be product of quality of materials used. Of course alot of refining and thought would need to go into it, but those are the basics of my idea.


    EDIT: To determine which schemes you could learn would be a combination of those skills...sort of like cart making. Anyone could scavenge any scheme...but to use it reqired a certain skill level in one or more skills.
    I like the ideas Deacon. You could start out with a very basic set of recipes (each set including a wall, a gate, a floor, and small building of some sort) , a collection from all branches of construction (wood, grass, metal, hides/bone, ...) To gain new recipes in any of these areas (or be able to understand scavenged ones) you need knowledge of architecture as well as of the area the recipe is from.

    The overall quality of the construction could be based on materials, your skill in arch/area, tools and more.

  10. #10
    Thanks for the feedback.

    Architecture gains are working as designed though some players will gain more schemes easier than others. As crafting recipes have been revised (for example with Artisan and Master sets for all armor), architecture will also undergo further revisions and checks for the current crafting update. This feedback is useful.

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