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  1. #1

    Feedback Request 03/29/2013 - Crafting Revisions

    Crafting revisions are open for public testing. Please provide any feedback, bug reports or other issues here.

    Crafting Panel
    - Crafting panel now has a search box to filter schemes by name.
    - Multiple items can be crafted in a row by setting an amount to craft (currently up to 20 for stackable items and up to 5 for non stackable items).

    Improvements
    - Item quality revised to a maximum of 125 supreme quality.
    - Item quality number now displays in item icon information tooltip after the quality level.
    - Tools affect skill of the player instead of adding directly to the item quality. This provides higher bonuses to higher skilled players and less effects for lower skilled players.

    Armor
    Armor scheme components categorized:
    - Primary Material
    - Secondary Material (Artisan and Master sets only)
    - Fastener
    - Primary Decoration
    - Secondary Decoration

    Artisan and Master armor sets are composed of more components thus having the potential of holding more and higher armor bonuses.

    Armor stat bonuses revised.
    - Armor can hold up to a maximum of 5 stat bonuses.
    - With each additional bonus, the overall stat bonus total limit is increased, but divided among the applied bonuses. For example an armor set can use one stat bonus at maximum power (near +40 stat points for one stat, or 5 bonuses at a lower value for each stat (total of near 70 stat points).

    Armor decays in combat when hit, based on the location of the hit.

    Materials
    - Plastic materials added.
    - Additional plastic components added.
    - Additional metal materials added.
    - Crafting components revised so that some parts used in schemes can be metal or plastic (such as decorations).

    Update April 3 2013
    - Stack limits revised to enable full use of crafting multiple items at one time.
    - Leather scraps can be sewn together to create Leather.
    - Leather can be cut into leather scraps.
    - Materials added to many components that were not getting materials applied when found (scavenged or sorted).
    - New crafted components (such as leather fringe and piping) functional.
    - Overall stat bonuses limit on worn armor removed. Individual per part limits applied that fit the new system.

    Update April 15 2013
    - Tools apply quality bonuses based on the specific tool group.
    -- Forager tools affect Forager tools and Basketry.
    -- Trapper tools affect Trapper tools and Bonecraft.
    -- Pioneer tools affect Pioneer tools and Leathercraft.
    -- Scrapper tools affect Scrapper tools and Tailoring.
    - Tools no longer apply duration bonuses.
    - Beads combined to use one bead scheme (in Masonry)
    - Feldspar added as a rare material on Basalt surfaces.

    Notes for future patches
    - Grass craft still needs some improvement.
    - Weapons will be revised next to apply useful combat bonuses and not stats.
    - Additional non stat armor bonuses will be applied later.

    Testing

    If you notice problems with any of the following, please respond on this thread.

    - Are there any stack limits that should be increased to allow for crafting the full amount (20 or 5) of a recipe?

    - Are any new found objects (scavenged or sorted) missing materials (plastic, metal, cloth)?

    - Are any crafted objects not getting the correct bonuses applied from materials? End products (armor right now) should get full bonuses applied. Component parts (for example, thread) should get just the material passed.

    - Is tool quality having a noticeable effect? Should it have a greater effect?

    - Are there any critical or obvious issues that you notice?
    Last edited by Xsyon; 04-15-2013 at 11:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Just now getting in to try this out. Its what I've been waiting for going on two years now. LOL.

    The multiple crafting is great, but could we maybe get a checkbox for "practice" where all the normal checks, resource burn, tool decay, xp gain etc are done but no item is created? This would eliminate having to delete grind items one at a time, and would help the database by not hitting it with item create and delete transactions.

    Multiple crafting with stackables where the limit is up to 20 will need some revisions on resource stacks. Items like string which require 10 thread will need 200 total thread to complete, which is impossible since the thread stacks are limited to 100 and you can only work with one stack of thread at a time.

    I am wondering how the durability tools were affected, as quality is no longer a bonus. Why would you use say a scrapper tool over a pioneer tool now? Also, why would one want to use different material types like brass screws vs iron screws if the stat bonuses don't affect tools?

    Small quirk with multi-crafting: If you select your resource stacks first, then change the amount to craft you have to reselect the resources so it fills in all the new requirements fully.

    Crafted grass fabric has no bonuses inherent to it. Scavenged (color) grass cloth and scraps do still have camo and spirit, but cannot be used in grass recipes.

    Cloth can be cut into scraps to bump its quality up before being turned into thread. Grass has no such mechanic.

    I was able to find cloth lining while scavenging. It had no bonuses, but wouldn't you want to limit intermediate goods to being crafted only?
    Last edited by Drevar; 03-29-2013 at 02:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Crafting revisions are open for public testing. Please provide any feedback, bug reports or other issues here.

    Crafting Panel
    - Crafting panel now has a search box to filter schemes by name.
    - Multiple items can be crafted in a row by setting an amount to craft (currently up to 20 for stackable items and up to 5 for non stackable items).
    I love the search box.
    I love the option to craft more than 1 item per click stacking. Can we get an option to type in the number of crafts (like most options like splitting a stack) instead of using arrows only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Improvements
    - Item quality revised to a maximum of 125 supreme quality.
    - Item quality number now displays in item icon information tooltip after the quality level.
    - Tools affect skill of the player instead of adding directly to the item quality. This provides higher bonuses to higher skilled players and less effects for lower skilled players.
    I love the increased QL options, good to see that.
    Love the display QL levels.

    This effecting our skill vs QL of the item. If we have 100 skill does it give us a bonus?
    Are tools still split into 2 groups? +QL and +Dura for the type of tool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Armor
    Armor scheme components categorized:
    - Primary Material
    - Secondary Material (Artisan and Master sets only)
    - Fastener
    - Primary Decoration
    - Secondary Decoration

    Artisan and Master armor sets are composed of more components thus having the potential of holding more and higher armor bonuses.

    Armor stat bonuses revised.
    - Armor can hold up to a maximum of 5 stat bonuses.
    - With each additional bonus, the overall stat bonus total limit is increased, but divided among the applied bonuses. For example an armor set can use one stat bonus at maximum power (near +40 stat points for one stat, or 5 bonuses at a lower value for each stat (total of near 70 stat points).

    Armor decays in combat when hit, based on the location of the hit.
    Much easier to understand now with the mats split up like that.
    Like the Artisan/Master recipes now giving them worth.

    Love the new armor stat system. I see it's still not working perfectly but good to see it in the works. Looks like some of the stats are not transferred correctly to the item.

    Have not tested decay, but good to see its being worked on. Before it was really low decay and only under armor got effected first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Materials
    - Plastic materials added.
    - Additional plastic components added.
    - Additional metal materials added.
    - Crafting components revised so that some parts used in schemes can be metal or plastic (such as decorations).
    Is plastic going to have bonuses?

    I noticed that some of the metal stats were changed (Chrome is AGI now) is this meant to be that way? Some of these metals were very rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Notes
    - Crafting changes are not complete and I am working out a few bugs.
    - Weapons will be revised next to apply useful combat bonuses and not stats.
    - Additional non stat armor bonuses will be applied later.
    - The system is set up to allow for higher stat bonuses as additional influencing factors get added in the future.
    Some of the components are not working in the recipes (I've yet to be able to make master items because of it)
    IE. Fringe, Leather Piping

    Also looks like weapons wont have stats?
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  4. #4
    You've probably noticed by now, but plastics do indeed have different stat bonuses for each "type". Some of the plastic stuff doesn't have bonuses yet, like handles, blocks, boards, etc. I would hope at least the handles get bonuses to use on weapons.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevar View Post
    You've probably noticed by now, but plastics do indeed have different stat bonuses for each "type". Some of the plastic stuff doesn't have bonuses yet, like handles, blocks, boards, etc. I would hope at least the handles get bonuses to use on weapons.
    Thanks for the info, I was only using my stored plastic stuff which have no stats. I went scaven and there are new stats on it. More sorting to do for me hehe.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  6. #6
    Could we maybe get a checkbox for "practice" where all the normal checks, resource burn, tool decay, xp gain etc are done but no item is created? This would eliminate having to delete grind items one at a time, and would help the database by not hitting it with item create and delete transactions.

    To clarify: practice mode would simply not create an object? Thus it's the same effect of crafting and deleting the objects in one step, correct?

    I am wondering how the durability tools were affected, as quality is no longer a bonus.

    I'll explain the change better: Tools still provide a quality bonus. Previously it was a direct bonus to quality (such as +10 quality). Now it increases the player's skill by a percent, which in turn raises the quality of the end product. Players with higher skill will receive more of a bonus from tool.


    I am considering revising tools to apply a quality bonus in all cases, rather than either a quality or duration bonus. Specific tools will effect specific end products, for example Foragers tools would affect the quality of Basketry and Bonecraft products.


    If we have 100 skill does it give us a bonus?

    Yes, skill can be effectively bumped up beyond 100 with the tool bonuses.

    I noticed that some of the metal stats were changed (Chrome is AGI now) is this meant to be that way?

    Yes. We are going to update the distribution of all objects and materials. We have a much better visual tool to help with this now.

    Also looks like weapons wont have stats?

    Weapons will have other combat related bonuses. Those will be next up on the Test Server.

  7. #7
    Thanks for all the answers and info. Looking forward to the next round of testing. I will be testing this current one later today.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  8. #8
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    194
    Wow - I did not have time for testing - but just from looking at the description - WOW
    "Thou shalt not follow the null pointer, for chaos and madness await thee at its end."

  9. #9
    In response to the practice clarification, yes, that is exactly what I mean. The effect would be the same as a creation and deletion in one step, but without the actual create/delete actions so as not to hit the database as much.

    Kind of wondering about the need to change Very High quality name to Superior. In my own mind Superior would rank above Premium. I would have chosen Exceptional if a new name was really needed. I was perfectly fine with Very High, though. The Master/Master thing definitely needed a change, so Premium quality works there.

    I may just not have found the proper mound yet (resource redistribution), but I have yet to figure out how to acquire some items like beads or metal rings.

    All of the plastic item types appear to be generating properly with their material types now.

    Was thread, string, etc. intended to inherit the bonus from cloth? If so this is a huge change to the crafting dynamic (trying to match the proper thread with the material types so as not to dilute the bonus, etc.) In any case, the bonus from the thread is only passed on when it is used in a final product. Intermediate products like lining and fringe do not pass on the bonus from the thread, only it's primary resource bonus.

    Tools seem a bit weak. I tried some leather and cloth crafting. Using the same QL materials and only swapping out one tool, the difference between a normal QL 57 Pioneer tool and a Supreme Master Pioneer tool was a whopping +5 QL difference in the final product. For stat bonuses I tested some leather using Aramid (Dex) thread and Mule deer leather (+fort). The difference in the final products using the same tools as above was +.05 Fort and +.01 Dex with the Supreme Master tool over the QL 57 normal tool. Again, less than stellar. The tests I ran were on normal tier items, since I don't have the Artisan or Master versions of the armors to see if a higher tier takes on more of the bonus by default or not. Also tried the same materials using newly created tools, same effect. Adding a second master pioneer tool at 96 QL to the mix (both tools now Master Pioneer) the final QL stayed the same and only the Fort bonus went up by an additional .02. There seemed to be no difference with old tools or new, so the difference is in the sim calculation it appears, not any specific trait of the tools themselves. In making the new tools to test with I also noticed I could no longer achieve Supreme quality with the materials I had previously been able to, so effect of the % of skill bonus is indeed less than the original flat +quality.
    Last edited by Drevar; 04-05-2013 at 09:34 PM.

  10. #10
    One small annoyance is back. When you craft an item the scheme list resets back to the top. Your active selection remains, so you can keep crafting, but meh, just feels "wrong".

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