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  1. #1

    Guides using special powers to remove old tribe areas.

    Why are guides getting involved with this?

    Is there a reason for guides to do this? Why are guides effecting the world in a way when it should be about the players.

    I believe many players have worked very hard on those lands, and they are not part of Xsyon history. If a new player chooses to remove it, that's fine. Guides shouldnt use special powers and choose to remove these old tribe areas.

    These buildings are not BUGGED, let me just be clear on that. Because I think people might be confused. Floating buildings are not bugged they were built this way using in game system of using dirt then removing the dirt. Xsyon already says this is ok.

    My point is if this is a player's world why are guides making choices on how to change the areas to their liking?


    My thoughts on it is, if players dont like it, or want something in the land different drop a totem. Just like if I want a road built I do it. If I want junk piles removed and level out the area I would drop a totem and fix it.
    If I want a river I would drop a totem and do this. It takes resources effort and time. ALL things guides DONT bother with and instantly remove or change the areas with special powers.

    I don't want guides changing things in the areas I've worked so hard with. I even pay off players to leave my areas how IVE built it.
    Last edited by MrDDT; 05-21-2013 at 06:51 PM.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  2. #2
    As I recall, the guide asked if anyone knew of floating structures they would like removed and they would take care of it. This is not randomly going about the world destroying everything they (the guide) don't want to see. This is about things no one want to take the time(which not all of us have a lot of free gaming time) to remedy that are completely out of place.

    I understand your point about non-interference, but there is no reason why bazaar dead tribe floating garbage should not be removed. For server lag issues if nothing else.

    If removing structure's like this were an event with some type of reward, I'd be all over it, but I do not have the time to leave tribe to fix every 'ugly' spot I see. There's grinding to be done!


    Be thankful the guide asked in global instead of just taking it upon themselves to wipe it out.

    That said, if there is a no-interference clause for the guides, how the hell are you going to move a abandon cart that's right in the middle of somewhere your trying to work?

    That's my 2 cents.

  3. #3
    You are the one DDT actually causing the confusion by claiming that guides would remove
    whole buildings when in fact we are talking about a single item a floor tile, not whole buildings
    and not whole tribes.

    No Guide would remove a whole tribal areas buildings that players have spent 100s of hours on
    which is what you are claiming.

    The reason you ask why a guide got involved is because a player asked for help in removing 1
    single floating floor tile.

    And your answer is just drop a totem so players can do it ?

    No player is going to give up their own tribe to remove a piece of floating arch.

    they might do it if it was a whole building they wanted to take ownership of, but
    again we are not talking about whole buildings or big tribe areas, we are talking about 1 single
    floor tile.

    Tidying up single pieces of detritus left by ex-players should be part of a guides mandate
    because players are not going to spend their own time doing it and why should they.
    Last edited by cerveau; 05-21-2013 at 09:33 PM.

  4. #4
    What I agree with is guides should not be allowed to use special powers to make Xsyon what they want with their special powers. I completely agree with MrDDT on this.

    What is in question is special powers, are we talking about power ranger powers here cuz i'll have to break out my candy cane and hang glider if so.

    I see no harm no foul from a guide taking down a few architecture pieces that have been long abandoned and nothing but a soar sight to the eyes. As I agree with Cerveau last statement.

    Nothing that happened was game changing and the guide in question was trying to be helpful at request. But in all reality this is a video game and nothing here can be taken to serious. Just relax and enjoy the game, unless the guide committed a heinous disposition to the players of the world Xsyon it really doesn't matter in the long run.

    Guides using special powers to remove old tribe areas.
    Why are guides getting involved with this?- MrDDT
    (your words bro)
    Do you have proof this happened?

    Personally I think this got blown way out of proportion. I've seen Game Masters ban players for talking rudely to them in other games in the public chat channel. But what I do not know is how much power a guide has, is a guide a game master level? If so then I am surprised you didn't get the ban hammer, if not then the guides have no real power so this topic is mute.

  5. #5
    The reason is because Xsyon said before that players are the ones to change the game world. Its not up to the guides to change it.

    Just like a broken road. Players should fix it. Old players terraformed in the roadway. Guides were asked to "fix it" or change it. They were not allowed. Why would they be allowed to tear down someones old tribe area?

    Many players have come back, and new players have taken these old tribe areas and rebuilt them. There is no bug here.

    Sandman you have 4+ accounts why not use one of them to change the land how you want it? Guides should not be involved with changing the world when bugs or harassment etc are not involved. Every guide has a personal attack also, if they feel they don't like something they have the option and right to change it. Using special guide powers and instantly changing the world because YOU or THEY don't like it shouldnt be an option.

    Should I call a guide because I don't like a hill near my totem? Or what if someone terraformed a river and I don't like it, and it is now outside a tribe land? Call a guide and have them "fix" it?

    About me being banned. You can say it was rude if you want. I never cursed called them names, spoke down to them or anything. I asked "Why" and explained other times where Xsyon didn't allow things like this.
    I've seen players like you be banned for abusing the game masters and using them for personal gains. In this case it was so minor I wouldn't even bother with reporting it, however, what about next time? Or like the other times you have done?


    Guidelines for guides should be pretty clear. In my opinion here are a few.

    1)If its not a bug don't get involved.
    2)If its not harassment or TOS issue don't get involved.
    3)If its not a teaching issue don't get involved.
    4)If the player isnt stuck don't get involved.

    Player politics, and pricing, and PVP, PVE, building, terraforming, planting etc are not choices for guides to make, players control these things. If players are not breaking the rules, or things are not bugged why would a guide be involved?

    Guides are here to asset the players create a world, not change it themselves. I know the guides do a lot of extra help and that's great, but there should be limits on how they effect the world. World events are not the same as choosing to remove a terraformed area or an old tribal area. Players can do this themselves, there is no bug, no exploit, no issues other than players being lazy and not wanting to use the time or resources to fix it.

    Industrial Strength goes out of its way to keep its area clear, this includes cleaning up old tribe lands, fixing terraforming mistakes, teaching people in the area how to build and doing beautification projects around its lands.
    Players have the tools and options to change the world how they want it. If you don't like a terraformed piece of land, or old buildings in your area, remove them, or fix them.
    Getting a guide to use special powers to do this shouldn't be an option.


    100s and even 1000s of man hours go in to players changing the world. If you want to change it, nothing is stopping you from doing it. Guides doing it is a whole other story.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  6. #6
    I was interested to watch this conversation unfold last night online. This was my first foray into this game and I found it interesting that there was an argument that these kinds of things would drive off new players. Quite the contrary, I found it encouraging that players were passionate enough about the online world that this kind of issue was being discussed. It didn't seem like it got out of hand, but maybe it escalated after I logged off.

    Seeing players passionate about defending what has been created in the game versus players wanting to clean things up to improve the game is a valuable community discussion and, I would hope, demonstrates a vibrant community. I prefer this to logging in and being greeted with no player banter or, worse, childish meme-spouting or spam.

    The bigger hurdle for a new player (such as myself) is the learning curve of the game itself and the limited information presented during character creation and when you enter. The game still has a certain spark that's intriguing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    Personally I think this got blown way out of proportion. I've seen Game Masters ban players for talking rudely to them in other games in the public chat channel. But what I do not know is how much power a guide has, is a guide a game master level? If so then I am surprised you didn't get the ban hammer, if not then the guides have no real power so this topic is mute.
    How was DDT rude to the guide? I don't recall him ever cursing at or calling the guide names. He just simply said I don't think you should be able to do that.
    Also to use your own words:
    do you have proof?

  8. #8
    Oh my - my 2 cent in something i might better shut up about - but i cant help it.

    I do see your point MrDDT - but you let guides move carts or ressource pieces that arnt visible and hinder you from leveling a piece of earth as well. So the definition of 'What is a reason to call help from a guide' seems to be non-defined at all but a matter of personal taste, definition and need.

    Let me quote a few words that really bug me in the post earlier:

    Quote "Industrial Strength...fixing terraforming mistakes, teaching people in the area how to build and doing beautification projects around its lands." All that is a personal taste first of all. What is a terraforming mistake? You stated players should be able to change - but you also call things a mistake in the same sentence basically. You state YOU have the right way and solution to something somebody ELSE made. So how i read it it contradicts your former words.

    Its a bold assumption that behind everything that happened in Xsyon so far was some greater positive meaning - i personally doubt that a lot. Creating tribe land right in the middle of roads and thereby blocking access to certain parts might be a strategical decision - but might also be pure dumbness or lazyness to flatten out a proper piece of land. You see - 2 options for the same fact. Assuming that all floating things have had a deeper meaning might be working for you personally if you knew that particular person - for newer people like me its a different angle to view the world.

    My short version is: if a guide is allowed to move a cart or a stack of ressources forth and back to help a landowner then your situation is the same for me. If i place my cart as a tactical annoyance and a guide moves it because the owner of the lands want it - that would be the same unfairness to me then. So obviously there is no clear line of what those 'guidelines' are you stated - everyone seems to have a personal definition of them.

    Last but not least - of course did some players already invest a lot of time into this world before newer people like me come here - and i do respect in general if hard work was done. But we are talking of clearly abandoned land here. Are you seriously saying that every new player should get an even higher hurdle than older ones had? You probably had everything nice and clean to start out with - just pointing out the difference in difficulty.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by toolkit68 View Post
    Oh my - my 2 cent in something i might better shut up about - but i cant help it.

    I do see your point MrDDT - but you let guides move carts or ressource pieces that arnt visible and hinder you from leveling a piece of earth as well. So the definition of 'What is a reason to call help from a guide' seems to be non-defined at all but a matter of personal taste, definition and need.

    Let me quote a few words that really bug me in the post earlier:

    Quote "Industrial Strength...fixing terraforming mistakes, teaching people in the area how to build and doing beautification projects around its lands." All that is a personal taste first of all. What is a terraforming mistake? You stated players should be able to change - but you also call things a mistake in the same sentence basically. You state YOU have the right way and solution to something somebody ELSE made. So how i read it it contradicts your former words.


    Toolkit, you make a great point and let me tell you the difference.

    What I asked a guide to do players CANT fix. No player can move someone else's cart. Only a guide can do this, I've asked the Devs to change it and they are working on it. So the temp fix is for a guide to move it.
    About an invisible object in the game. This is a BUG. Players can't fix it, they cant use anything to remove that object.
    You placing a cart for "tactical" reasons when there is NOTHING a player can do is the difference here. I'm ok if these carts could be destroyed by PLAYERS or some other way a PLAYER could fix/change this. They can't and Xsyon said he is working to fix the issue but has no thoughts on how.

    This tribe lands that are being removed by guides CAN be fixed/changed/removed/modified by players. It just takes a little elbow grease.

    Last but not least - of course did some players already invest a lot of time into this world before newer people like me come here - and i do respect in general if hard work was done. But we are talking of clearly abandoned land here. Are you seriously saying that every new player should get an even higher hurdle than older ones had? You probably had everything nice and clean to start out with - just pointing out the difference in difficulty.
    This is where you are wrong. See new players have cleared areas, that are most likely flat, and have been "prepped" for terraforming. Also in the cases we are talking about are PREBUILT! These are built objects in the world, that means they have the mats and already built for the new players, they would simply have to take a little time to build/terraform to them. I've known and see other players take over these buildings and do many things with them.
    Saying it would be harder for a new player is just wrong and a lack of knowledge here. Older players had it much harder than new players now. So when you say "nice and clean" you mean not flat, tons of junk in the way? Yes this is true, but its a lot more clear/clean now due to old tribes that have done most of the ground work PLUS less people. When most tribes set up, we had to fight with 100s of other tribes.

    Its a bold assumption that behind everything that happened in Xsyon so far was some greater positive meaning - i personally doubt that a lot. Creating tribe land right in the middle of roads and thereby blocking access to certain parts might be a strategical decision - but might also be pure dumbness or lazyness to flatten out a proper piece of land. You see - 2 options for the same fact. Assuming that all floating things have had a deeper meaning might be working for you personally if you knew that particular person - for newer people like me its a different angle to view the world.
    I think you are misunderstanding if you think everything players do to the world is some greater positive meaning. I'm simply saying its the PLAYERS living in the world's choice, it shouldnt be left to the guides that put almost no effort into removing someone's hard work. Whether you, guides, or I like it or not. We as players can change it to make it better or worse. Doing so requires some effort, resources, and tools.
    I've seen a lot of tribes do things I think mess up the lands, I've had people say my tribe is messing up the lands. That is very different than a guide doing it. At the rate I can mess up land I have to put effort into it 1000s of hours. Guides have special powers that by pass this effort and use of resources like shovels or bricks.

    I'm happy with guides doing things for events and things like that. We are not talking about things we are talking about removing someone's hard work. If you or I don't like these things we have the option and powers to remove or change them. Why is a guide being involved?
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  10. #10
    You went completely around the point regarding the cart placed for possible tactical reasons - let me rephrase the importance what i wrote there:

    Things are as they are RIGHT NOW. So placing a cart somewhere can/could be a tactical decision with the current setup. Hence you make a difference in moving a cart and removing someone elses annoyance by a guide - thats the whole point i made. Games are played by the rules that are in force - not the ones that had been in the past or might be in the future. So based on current status quo you would have to treat both situations like the same - which you dont do either. All i am saying.

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