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  1. #1

    Feedback Request 06/25/2013 - Creatures (Test Server Only)

    The Test Server is open to the public with the next round of creature improvements. Please provide feedback on the current changes.

    Important Note: For testing the range of creature power, a script was run to distribute creatures' age and combat power evenly. A full range of creatures from babies to maximum legendary adult exist should be found.

    Current changes:
    - Creature hit points reduced and revised, in particular small creatures and children of all species.
    - Creature damage slightly revised.
    - Creature speed reduced by lack of energy.
    - Creatures that have been in combat gain additional power gradually over time.

    Changes 07/04/2013:
    - Migration adjusted to better assign creatures to appropriate danger zones.
    - Mutants migrate and balance across extreme and high danger zones.
    - Creature hp revised and reduced, especially for small creatures and children.
    - Large creature attack range reduced.
    - Max hp for normal large creatures reduced.
    - Amount of material resources on creatures increases with age and power.
    - Energy use affects speed.
    - Energy use affects aggression.
    - Server side AI and breeding system improvements.

    Planned but will not be worked on in this phase:
    - Collision.
    - Correct animations for directional attacks from creatures.
    - Towns as attractors for rats.
    - Movement on slopes.
    - Improved aggression.

    As usual I am looking for feedback on overall balance and specific creatures.

    If you feel there are any additional important issues please bring them up in this thread. Not everything can be worked on at this point, but all comments will be noted.

    Last edited by Xsyon; 07-04-2013 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Great work on the balance guys!

    I went around and killed around a dozen of each animal and a lot of it feels more rounded.

    Seeing much more baby cats with larger moma cats, this is great, the hp difference is for sure there. A kitten should die in a hit or two, while a fully grown cat should take a few more hits at around 60-80hps. Cats feel perfectly where they should be.

    Same as the cats, I'm seeing a lot more puppies with larger adult dogs. The puppies seem to be slightly stronger then the kittens, but still die in a couple hits, right where they should be. Larger adult dogs should have a "wardog" feel, as they do at around 90-145hps and standing as tall as me (the biggest possible skin) they feel where they should be in both health and damage. However I would like to see some kind of AI where if I say.. Attack a puppie of the same type of animal, that same type would come help, or the same type that's in a near group or part of the group, would help it out. I would think that if I was beating on a puppie, its mother whos right next to me, would do something other then run away, but who knows maybe im just scary enough for the AI that it doesn't bother? I find dogs attack all my weaker newb friends on sight, however they leave me alone.

    They're perfect, they should die in a couple hits, I see most 20-30hps 28-29hp being the avg on most of them, right where it should be, not in the 100s lol. The damage also seems to be spot on.

    First off, I love that rabbits attack you back, No complaints there, however it may be unrealalistic. I also feel that a rabbit should be fast, I was able to chase down a 29hp "moma" rabbit in a group with a 10hp baby rabbit, without using "x" to run after it, just regular run. I personally don't think this is right, I feel that a rabbit should be faster and I should actually have to use X sprint to catch such a "known for speed" beast. Other then that, the damage and health of the rabbits and baby rabbits seems spot on.

    Found coons between 140 and 170 health. I took some test hits from the 170hp and it seems like the coons are hitting within more reasonable damages now, when a coon of 160hps used to deal 18-20+ damage to me, a 170 coon is now dealing around 9damage to me, this seems more realistic and better balanced, since the 170hps already makes this a powerful foe at triple to quadruple the health of the mass majority of people who play this.

    Okay not gona lie, I only seen one marmot and it was the size of a dog and had 137hps. I'm thinking marmots need to be relooked at for health, I think they should be maxing out around 50-60 maybe 70, nothing over a cat, since they should be smaller then a cat and thus less health. Didn't see a problem with its damage, however with how fast it attacks mixed with the health it could be a larger threat then it seems for a new player walking up to it.

    I think manx should be slightly stronger then they currently are, since they're basicly a big wild cat. I seen some larger ones and they felt like they should be like that, it may be an idea to up the overall size of the manx so they seem bigger then the other cats. Other then that they feel about where they should be, maybe slightly on the weak side damage wise, but their health seems on point.

    WOH. JUST WOH. 38 damage from 4.89meters (im sure he could go more) Thus bear littorally stands twice the high as me and has 524hps. How am I supposed to deal with that without some kind of long range or healing? This is littorally impossible when I parry and it still hits me for 14-16health and its 100% to hit me every time since he out ranges me he can hit me before I can hit him. This patch makes bears unhuntable and beyond what they should be. I feel bears where find where they used to be, the last patch that just recently updated things, made the bears about perfect, you could find 200-250hp bears that are killable and 290-350+ bears that you could take with a couple buddys. The range of them even then was a bit insane, you couldn't get close without getting smacked first with the larger 290hp or more ones having 4.8+meters range on their attacks. If your going to give them large damage, you'll need to reduce the range on them so we can at least get "first hit" so we can parry, otherwise its taking a massive hit to the face just so you can throw your own minor hit on him, that now with 524hps hes going to laugh at even more. I strongly feel that the health should be reduced back to 200-250 for the avg and 290-400 for the "strong adults" anything past 400 should be a mutant. I also think the range should be reduced from 4.8+ to around 3 to 3.5, this would give them enough range to still hit us and if given the chance, to deal a lot of damage if you made a mistake, but it would alow the ability to avoid or dodge better, verse knowning that without a doubt you will get smoked if you try "anything" it makes it not worth trying to hit it when you know your just going to take massive punishment without the slightest chance of avoiding or dodgeing or parrying it if you walk in with a charged up hit. There should be the ability or the "lure" to keep trying, by reducing the range, this would make players attempt to try things like repeatedly hitting it if they think they can avoid a hit or parry it. But no ones gona keep trying to attack something when they do around 10 damage and this thing is going to hit you for 38, most players would die in 2-3 hits while this bear would take over 50 hits to kill, this makes it impossible even for a group of people. Weakest bear I seen was a 240, it seemed about as strong as a teen bear should be. The bears also seemed to be about as fast as they should be, the 500hp being much faster then other bears. They also seemed to slow down and start walking when they where low on energy GREAT JOB HERE!

    Deer are almost where they should be, their range and damage seem to be about spot on, same with their speed. Their health seems a bit high, they used to be around 200-300 and now I'm seeing peaks of 390+, again the same thing, a 390+hp deer would be impossible to solo for prettymuch everyone but 5 people on the whole server and by 390hps it should be a mutant. Aside of the over health issue, deer seem to be spot on for range, damage and speed. They're also effected by low energy, so they're running slower when they have low energy, this is something I really wanted to see in hunting so I'm stoked to hear you have them moving slower now on low energy.

    Overall things seem to be more balanced with young and old anaimals everywhere, verse it being just purely adults and teens, it seems much more rounded. All animals in general seem way more rounded as well for damage and health aside of bears and deer, they both seem to be more beefier then seemingly needed, moreso the bears that have too much range or damage, one of the two needs to be reduced.

    ~Other thoughts
    One of the main reasons why I think the balance of both bears and deers should be relooked at, is since these are the main materials used for all bonecraft armour parts. Aside of being able to use others to grind your skill, like dogs and cats, you cant really turn them into anything, so again your forced to look for deer and bears. If bears and deer become near possible for people to hunt, alone for small ones, or in small groups of 2-3 for larger/stronger ones, that makes bonecraft a "purely team sport for the 2+ year players" where only one person gets to reep the rewards, its kinda hard to convince a bunch of people to fall to their death repeatedly for one persons small amount of spoils.

    Now I agree that a newb shouldnt be able to just run into a high or extreme zones, but thats what the mutants are there for, the added challange for people who can take monsterous animals of 800 to 1,000+ health, lets not confuse the subject and think that the same team of 2 that could take a 250-300hp bear could have as much luck with a 800-1000hp bear. The larger mutant bear gives you something to look forward to while your contending with mid danger wilds.

    I'm just saying if your going to make the core materal for a craft something, there needs to be a middle ground for people who are stronger then the majorty of the purely crafters at under 100hps, but not strong enough to hunt the 1k hp mutants, but still need bones to make useful things. To be honest, I've seen multiple people fall trying to take out a 300hp bear, as they should for under 100 hp people, so these are still a major threat for 90% of the server.

    Again theres always going to be that mutant in the high danger and xtreame zones and they give the more powerful and more useful bones, so that gives people something to work towards, it gives a larger lure to invest time towards, but if you take out the middle step and make deers and bears impossible to hunt in a small group of tribemates, your asking the mass majortiy to view bonecraft or hunting anything past a dog hunting as a useless thing since the rewards are not worth you and a few of your buddys dying multiple times if you where to legitly fight these things without using rocks or a player who has been in the game for 2-3 years. I don't think someone should have to grind 1-2 years for the right to bonecraft or fight deer/bear in duo. the whole goal here right is to have it balanced enough so that people dont need to use rocks anymore right? I know I see people luring bears to their tribe and just repeatedly dying throwing themselves up agenst the bear till the bear died, but again I dont feel that in a survivor game it should promote this kind of combat, from someone who has 180+hps, so they've obviously spent a good deal of time raising their health, they should be able to take something like a deer or if he brings a friend or two should be able to kill a bear without using dirty tactics like respawn and rocks, it should be doable by parry or shield blocking with counter attacking, this is how I try to get the majority of my hunts since thats more real. I know I have a long way to go before I can start taking out mutants, but if theres nothing but dogs n cats to hunt till I'm able to take a few of my buddys to even try a regular bear at 500+hps for less then a single set of armour for one person, it just doesnt seem worth the constant effort to get to that point when theres no progression of things your able to take, its would turn it into a cliff wall grind, verse a steady climb and raise of things your able to take. Basicly it would give a monopoly of all deer, bear and mutant bones to players of 2-3 years who grind endlessly and it would make it seem like a wasted direction for anyone new, thinking they wouldnt be able to even take a simple deer or duo a bear till they're 2 years deep into the game, thats a hard pill to swallow for anyone who looks at bonecraft and actually wants to use it. Not to mention there is a whole section in waincraft that purely use's bear bones.
    Last edited by GreenSpade; 06-26-2013 at 07:38 AM.

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