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  1. #1

    Angry 4 Things that need fixing in Xsyon

    1. Scavenging: Before the loot tables changed I genuinely enjoyed scavenging. Now I spend half my time deleting metal studs and plastic sheets (things that are LITERALLY useless).
    I enjoyed scavenging because it was a lottery, your next scavenge could be a sought after arch or cart blueprint that could sell for 3k currency easily.
    The chances of me getting a blueprint now are so extremely rare it would be more useful to search abandoned camps for blueprints instead. In 29 hours of scavenging I have found 1 x Mason Corner Floor BP, scavenging in nearly every area in-game.
    Hardly anyone trades BPs because they are TOO rare.

    Way to fix it: Remove useless crap from loot tables or increase the chances of getting blue prints.


    2. Too many Revs around: Give players a reason to kill revs. Hardly anyone can even kill a 350 HP rev solo, and why would high HP players risk their armor trying to kill one?

    Way to fix it: Lower the max HP of Revs to 150-200 AND make them drop something of value.


    3. Too many large animals around: Make animals in general easier to kill. Players complain that they were killed by rats, rabbits, etc.. I thought this game was aiming for realistic? Getting 1 shotted by large animals is not realistic or fun.

    Way to fix it: Lower the amount of strength animals have, at least by half.


    4. Combat lag: Many players are getting frustrated with 1-2 second lag spikes while fighting creatures or other players. Especially when 1 second a 350 HP was not behind you then all of a sudden it is = 67HP lost (Most players 1 shotted).

    Way to fix it: Optimization.


    I feel as if this game is steering away from community suggestions, which is sad.
    I will not be returning until the farming patch, or at least when 2 of the above are fixed.


    /rant
    DangerTwig
    z980 - 900/800
    Xsyon World Map

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanargu View Post
    1. Scavenging: Before the loot tables changed I genuinely enjoyed scavenging. Now I spend half my time deleting metal studs and plastic sheets (things that are LITERALLY useless).
    I enjoyed scavenging because it was a lottery, your next scavenge could be a sought after arch or cart blueprint that could sell for 3k currency easily.
    The chances of me getting a blueprint now are so extremely rare it would be more useful to search abandoned camps for blueprints instead. In 29 hours of scavenging I have found 1 x Mason Corner Floor BP, scavenging in nearly every area in-game.
    Hardly anyone trades BPs because they are TOO rare.

    Way to fix it: Remove useless crap from loot tables or increase the chances of getting blue prints.


    2. Too many Revs around: Give players a reason to kill revs. Hardly anyone can even kill a 350 HP rev solo, and why would high HP players risk their armor trying to kill one?

    Way to fix it: Lower the max HP of Revs to 150-200 AND make them drop something of value.


    3. Too many large animals around: Make animals in general easier to kill. Players complain that they were killed by rats, rabbits, etc.. I thought this game was aiming for realistic? Getting 1 shotted by large animals is not realistic or fun.

    Way to fix it: Lower the amount of strength animals have, at least by half.


    4. Combat lag: Many players are getting frustrated with 1-2 second lag spikes while fighting creatures or other players. Especially when 1 second a 350 HP was not behind you then all of a sudden it is = 67HP lost (Most players 1 shotted).

    Way to fix it: Optimization.


    I feel as if this game is steering away from community suggestions, which is sad.
    I will not be returning until the farming patch, or at least when 2 of the above are fixed.


    /rant


    I think it's odd you talk about Blueprints as hardly traded yet they are literally the most common item traded from scavenging, even more so than currency I think, or at least a close second. I believe the problem is the fact is that's all you really caring about when you scavenge. There are major issues with that, not the how rare they are or whatnot it's the usefulness of ALL the other items even the items that have a use, but the usefulness of them is so low that you are only caring about the Blueprints.


    Rev's issue I think there is to little reward for doing much of anything. I also do not think the Revs are to hard, but they offer nothing for how hard they are. If they gave out 100 blueprints every time you killed one, they wouldn't be hard enough.
    So are they to hard? Yes but only because they offer no reward what so ever.


    About the larger animals, when I think "larger animals" I think bears, and coyotes, along with the mutant versions of them. I really don't think there are to many around, there are none around the lake, so you are likely in high danger areas, where there should be larger animals.
    Now having said that, I think the small animals (rabbits, rats etc) need to be toned down. Leave their HP, but lower their damage by a factor of 20, YES 20! So a rabbit currently hits for about 20 to 30 on a naked player, it should be like 1 to 1.5 damage.
    Them having higher HP allows players to still fight, without dying in 1 or even 10 hits. So they can get more attacks in and feel like they doing something in combat, and getting more skill uses.
    Most of the animals if not all need to be changed in this way, some slightly (like shadowbears should be hard, hitting for near what the hit for now)

    Combat lag clearly needs to be fixed, and even just overall server lag.



    So all in all I agree with you, but not on how to fix it, or the reasons you stated in some cases.
    The biggest one is the scavenging issue. Blueprints are really the only resource/item people care to find in the scav piles people are always upset about it. Even when it was much higher than it is now. The reason is that blueprints and building really is 90% of the this game, so people only really care about getting them so they can build. ALL the other items in scavenging are next to worthless, and with little use or reason.
    Last edited by MrDDT; 11-18-2013 at 10:53 AM.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  3. #3
    Yea, I think I agree with DDT here. Not for the blueprints or scavenging part, but we could debate about that until the servers close... but the rest of it seems fairly reasonable and would help the game, I think.

  4. #4
    Xsyon Citizen Ragnar's Avatar
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    Well, as a new player just about 2 weeks into game, I see many issues that I feel could be adjusted to enhance the game. No, one developer can't make all those changes at once and must prioritize to ensure most bang for his developmental buck, but I think he is doing that and making good, solid changes to benefit the game, at least since I have started playing.

    As for the issues you have stated need to be changed and your reasons and solutions, here is my input from a new player perspective.

    Blueprints. Blueprints are as valuable as the person wanting them is willing to pay. Doesn't matter what price DDT puts on his price list or anyone else, you are only going to get what a player is willing to pay. That said, they are far too common. I don't know how or where you scavenge, but I normally find about 3 blueprints an hour when I focus on scavenging. No, they aren't all great and rare ones or the one I want, but they do give me a variety and some merchandize with which to trade. The truly sad part is that 2 weeks into the game, I have all the pioneer cart blueprints for all 4 levels of carts plus I decided to go with the Mason style of building, which is commonly liked in game, and I have all of the ramps, all the platforms, the gate, the wall, the limestone wall, the two posts that aren't art deco, both floors and 2 of the 4 roofs. I also have ample currency to buy the others if I so desired. I have traded or bought most of those as the areas I scavenge tend to drop other styles. But at 2 weeks into the game, there is nothing you or anyone else has that I need or desire. That is the problem. I should not reach 'end game' in 2 weeks. The only things truly of any value, and again that value varies greatly by individual, is blueprints. Make them more common and they will be as unwanted as the schemes are. The stuff is out there both in scavenging and via purchase/trade with others. What we need to do is find a way to bolster/create the in game economy that is needed here. The trading posts obviously aren't doing it. Most people get what they want so easily they just hoard up things as they don't need the currency yielded by selling them. Other than buying the few items in game from others or paying for the totem bonus, currency has no use or value and the 5 varieties of currency often make it difficult to buy from totems as many are set to dollars leaving you with a disproportionate mass of the other 4 currencies yet all of the currencies are the same essential value and seem to have approximately the same drop rate. More structure towards the currency and providing more uses for it in game somehow, like more robust vending, would aid that. Yet, in order to have more robust vending and sell things, there has to be things people want to buy and right now, that doesn't seem to be the case. You can do everything therefore there is no need to deal with other players if you don't want to. Once you have your blueprints you want, you can become a recluse and just build over and over again. There really is no motivation to interact with the rest of the game at that point. And that point, with the current availability of blueprints, is very early in play.

    Too many revenants isn't really an issue. I don't do ANY fighting with my crafter, which is my choice. I could fight, but I am focusing on being a tradesman and feel fighting isn't a part of his role. That said, there are many that massacre revs at will or get a small group together to kill them. I have even seen some veteran players hired to clear an area for a new person so they could set up their homestead safely. I like that concept. The problem is there is no motivation, in game, to kill the revs. They don't drop anything anyone killing them would want. They carry no currency, not that it would have any real value but it would motivate some to hunt them to hoard the currency, but there just is no real reason to kill them. They are easily avoidable and the only time they are in the way really is if you are trying to loot the camp they are associated with. Well, the number and strength of the revs is somewhat tied to the strength of the abandoned camp and therefore, one could estimate, the value of the abandoned contents of the camp, provided they haven't already been picked through. I have looted a few smaller camps with up to 8 to 10 revs and had no issues and didn't fight any of them. So, from the information of those that do hunt revs, it isn't difficult, it just requires you to understand the combat system, have appropriate armor and weapon, obviously not a blade, and pray the server lag doesn't leave you high and dry during the fight. So, essentially, they don't need to be easier, they need to be purposed and motivation to fight them provided.

    As for the animals, the large ones are there because no one killed them before they got large. I hear many complaints there aren't enough animals. I think the issue may be more about animal distribution than quantity. As for the difficulty, again, I don't feel I should be able to fight the toughest creature solo just 2 weeks into the game. As it is, I can work up my skill, learn the combat systems and such fighting select smaller creatures. Sure, I get owned by a bear in extreme zones...but they should own me, they are pretty much the boss mobs of the game at this point. I think more variety and a better understanding of the animals and their capabilities being provided to starting players would help make the fighting of animals simpler. As for realism, with a destroyed world and probable radiation effects and a 'green mist' locking us into the small area we live in, I don't find larger and more aggressive animals to be unrealistic at all...revenants on the other hand are a bit harder to buy into...but hey, many folks enjoy a good zombie hunt. Effectively, learn the combat system and how to fight the animals and which ones to fight at your level. Learn how to stat yourself and equip yourself and you shouldn't have much issue with the animals except for a few of the toughest which I think there should be some motivation to group up and tackle the toughest mobs. Again, there is that motivation word. The issue with the animals is that unless you are grinding bone and leather or hunting, there is no reason to kill them either...and thus they grow old and large. I like that they don't run about with purses full of coin, but perhaps some chance of significant rare mat drops or something might give incentive to players or even cause crafters to hire hunters to gather such. There just needs to be a reason to kill them and currently, there is little incentive to do such. Especially with the lack of any form of healing in the game other than just resting. Fighting equates to little or no real profit/gain and additional down time while you heal. Not a motivating combination.

    Lag just needs to not be if possible. I agree with you but not just about combat. The lag in the chat window alone almost makes me want to quit the game. Hit return and start typing...and watch return not be recognized due to the lag and then you are running around and windows are opening and closing and you are trying to regain control. Sad state of affairs. Optimization via code and quality hardware and bandwidth/hosting is really the only fixes that I know of for those issues and sadly nothing we players can help with.

    All in all, the framework of this game is amazing and the potential staggering, but certain issues, such as the lag, economy, tutorial, long term player retention, in game play purpose and many others, some of which I undoubtedly have not had the opportunity to experience yet due to my limited play time, are things that do need to be looked at in my opinion. I am sure the developer has many things on his to do list but as he is doing them alone, he has to prioritize and we aren't privy to all the elements that go into his decision processes so we can't honestly judge his decisions fairly. What we do know is that some changes are needed to ensure the player base grows through attracting new players, like Steam will do, and then being able to keep them playing. The tutorial I am told is in the works should help with that, but more is needed. If I can accomplish pretty much everything I can do on a 1 player homestead in under a month, why would most folks continue to play? If I was not interested in building, I could have optimized my character for crafting or fighting in but a few days it seems. May not have been perfect, but easily over 90 in the relevant skills. At that point the benefits are much more minimal per advancement. Yes, supreme 100+ quality armor and weapon are better than simply premium, but the difference isn't nearly as great as say premium vs low quality. And since it takes but a few days to be able to craft decent quality items, you quickly reach the high end of the game.

    Again, this is my opinion and is not perfect nor infallible. Just what I have seen so far. Instead of making this game even more simple and easy play wise, we need to focus on better initiation of new players information wise and incentivizing play and activities in game to actually put a game and reason to play into Xsyon.

    Thank you ryanargu for opening the topics for discussion and caring enough to want to improve the game. I appreciate it and as someone intending to keep playing the game, I hope more folks like you are seeking ways to improve the game instead of exploit or break it.


    "...so what if I'm descendant from the Scottish kings, it didn't get me a castle..."
    Kethinon, Honor and Chivalry Traders, Xsyon Lake Tahoe West Coast, z896 Pos 770/305

  5. #5
    My main problems with XSYON at the moment:

    1. Server Lag during fights
    2. Animals and Revs going up down near vertical walls (players can't), not even slowing down. (I hate this one)
    3. Small animals (Rats, Squirrels, etc..) do too much damage. I find it stupid having to run away from a Racoon.
    4. Coyotes should be wolves. A coyote should not be so dangerous to an adult.
    5. Too many bears and coyotes in Low/medium areas. (I live in the border of Low/Medium an see the all the time) I lost a lot of time and died plenty to them until I finally got a wall of posts up

    I agree with MrDDT on the need to lower small animal damage

    As far as BPs, I dont think I've even seen one. many patterns and schem, but nothing that sais BP

  6. #6
    Glorp here....mO.Om....

    This topic has not received alot of post but sure has stirred up good conversations in TS.

    I have had my ups and downs with Xsyon but i feel as if i am playing the game as the designer intended. I am not a hard core grinder and let the points fall where they land growing in experience as challenges arise. I have help lead a tribe, fought side by side with others in hunting parties, Traded goods i have to those that need them or in turn for what i need and i try to mentor to the new players in my search for another who is willing to work side by side.

    Lagg in game is something i can deal with knowing either coding has to be revamped or a new server purchased.

    Scavanging seems to go in spurts. I dont have a true scavenger but when i compare what a weak scavenger gets versus a more skilled one i do get more rares but they are usually plastic boards and useless. I have had good and bad weeks for Blueprints. sometimes i can get 10 or more in a day but other weeks i get just a cart BP. But if you loosen BP's up then the new players will have what they want without trading...out goes the economy and the player leaves soon after also. Keep the BP's scarce imo.

    Animals.... no...Xsyon has done a great job lately with animals...ya id like the small animals to hit less but again....if you did that then the new players would be gone because it was too easy to kill stuff. Keeping it harder helps promote group activities.

    Combat...well here is an issue but dont know how it can really be fixed...in pve, if you have a lagg, get safe...pvp tho...if someone has good ping/fps and the other does not then the defender is screwed...I have seen it where on screen i was sprinting same speed as the attacker yet he was hitting me from behind.

    All in all....this game keeps me attracted and wanting more. I love to just roam almost everyday... looking for a camp to loot, new people to help out. my last comment is...Dont let the people take your vision away...THIS IS YOUR GAME JORDI...Keep it.

    Hope this one posts as i have been having trouble posting on here and ea time i re type stuff i lose the origional feeling i had.

    Glorp out...mO.Om

  7. #7
    I really don't think there are to many around, there are none around the lake, so you are likely in high danger areas, where there should be larger animals.
    wrong mr. ddt. ive met coyotees, mules, bears in any kinda danger zone. not that much in low, true, but we already had a couple of aggro high hp - raccons, mules, coyotees around our low-area-camp the last 2 weeks. not that i dont want em there. i just run them out, lure them away. but if its meant to find them only in medium, high, extreme zones, they are kinda wandering like they want atm

    to the revs:
    i see a large lack inbetween the handable ones and the 350 hp-ones.
    the highest i saw in low hp was 163 ...then a hughe jump up to the 350 hp. nothing inbetween.
    and its not true that the strengh and ammount of revs depending on the player, who was living before in his now abandoned tribe. my low-lvl Ziteng once had a little camp in a high danger zone. nothing worthy in it, just a little amount of building, just fences around - 5 revs now spawning there, all 350 hp :/ ... wouldnt be able to kill one of em with my nowadays-active-tribees (three we are) all together *sniffs*

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ZitengWang View Post
    wrong mr. ddt. ive met coyotees, mules, bears in any kinda danger zone. not that much in low, true, but we already had a couple of aggro high hp - raccons, mules, coyotees around our low-area-camp the last 2 weeks. not that i dont want em there. i just run them out, lure them away. but if its meant to find them only in medium, high, extreme zones, they are kinda wandering like they want atm

    to the revs:
    i see a large lack inbetween the handable ones and the 350 hp-ones.
    the highest i saw in low hp was 163 ...then a hughe jump up to the 350 hp. nothing inbetween.
    and its not true that the strengh and ammount of revs depending on the player, who was living before in his now abandoned tribe. my low-lvl Ziteng once had a little camp in a high danger zone. nothing worthy in it, just a little amount of building, just fences around - 5 revs now spawning there, all 350 hp :/ ... wouldnt be able to kill one of em with my nowadays-active-tribees (three we are) all together *sniffs*

    When I made that post it was correct, don't forget that animals can wonder anywhere, and can be dragged to any zone. You can pull a shadowbear to a low area and it will wonder around it for a while. What you are seeing is likely larger animals like mule deer and coyotes due from over time and lack of being killed moving into lower areas. Your "low" area is also likely near high areas too, try looking on the lake edges and you will see very little of the large animals compared to other areas. Animal spawn areas have been reset/changed since I made that post. Likely due to the posts here in this thread. Xsyon is good about reading feedback and making these types of changes.
    Animals are not meant to ONLY find them in med+ areas, just more likely, which is how it currently is.

    About the Revs. The strength/HP of a rev is not a factor of how strong or new the player was that lived there before, it's based on combat EXP that rev has been in, and also time. Over time Revs get stronger/HP. So why you see a large jump from >163 to 350HP Revs is because 90 to 160ish is relatively new Revs, 350HP is max. So you are seeing a lot of "old" Revs or "new" Revs. You likely wont see them in the middle stages which is pretty brief. (Like 1 real week)
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


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