Xsyon or Wurm

[MrDDT]

Great post Poundcake, I think we agree on most things and I like your top 5.

I do not agree with the inventory system at all though, I think the unlimited inventory system and the way it's done in Xsyon is great. I believe the biggest issue I have here is the lack of moving many items at once, and the way items can't be broken down to allow better stacking. Other than that, inventory is great. I would like to see other containers like chests, barges, and cabinets. The woodcraft skill would do wonders here (barges would go in wainwright of course).

All in all, there are many things to be done with Xsyon and I still see hope.

[Hodo]

MrDDT, I was like you once, I clung to one game with a great deal of hope, but that game died. I still think it was one of the best sandbox games outside of SWG ever, and that was Roma Victor. It like Xsyon was built on horrible code, and was developed by a group of people with less money then a third world begger. They eventually gave up on the game, even though it would have probably florished under player development as an Emulator. But saddly that did not happen.

I had high hopes for Mortal Online and Xsyon, but they both turned out... well to be nice, poorly. I am no quite jaded on the gaming world and it is real rare I even put money into a game anymore. I just wait, watch youtube videos of it, read the forums and look for things I know I would dislike. Unfortunatly Xsyon has more flaws and problems then they will overcome anytime soon, and I doubt they will EVER overcome them. Fact is Jordi is underfunded, understaffed, and underskilled to complete this massive task of this game. And it will most likely end up like Roma Victor and a few others, and dieing quitely with a few die hards still hanging around the forums praying for a miracle to save the game or trying to come up with a plan to keep the game alive.

Not saying you should jump ship now, no far from it if you enjoy it hang on to it for as long as you can. But don't be shocked when Jordi makes a post about how he can't sustain this project anymore and will be shutting down the servers on X date. Or he vanishes for months on end with no response, no updates, no bug fixes or even so much as a login on the forums.

I have seen it before, and it will happen again.

[MrDDT]

Hodo, haha you should know I played RV also. This game has better chance than RV IMO.

If he were to shut down before even trying to release it on Steam, I would think that would be a major mistake. At the very least I would throw it out on Steam as is and see how it does, but with just a few minor issues I think this game could be Steam ready enough to get some new life and get back on project. I stated those changes already.

Having hope doesnt mean I'm betting on it to be the best game ever, it just means out of the sandbox games out there and up in coming I believe Xsyon still has the best chance to be the game I want to play.

I do not believe it would take a "miracle" to save Xsyon, unlike RV that game was poorly coded in so many ways it was bound to fail. Xsyon has a solid core, with a few minor shortcomings that if were worked on could be fix/put into place and released on a hugely popular form of distribution known as Steam.

I have no reason to jump ship, I'm waiting around for content just like most people. I've done everything, and have all the skills that there is no more progression for me. So I'm just biding time and fooling about until something new comes out in Xsyon to play with, with new people.

[Anon386]

I've played both. Have been in wurm for at least 6+ years. I recently tried out Xsyon when it started a PvE server.

Wurm has more freedom to change land. You can dig and build off deed, change rock, tunnel into rock making caves. In general Wurm gives you far more freedom to change the lands.

Wurm has a better economy !BUT! the only reason it does is because you can use game currency to pay for subscriptions costs and other game related costs. You can even sell it for real life cash. An end game goal many people strive for is to get good enough craft/priest skills that you can sell goods and pay for free.
Wurm doesn't care about or try stop players from selling game currency. Although, only a handful of players are able to actually do this frequently. I'm not sure how to explain it well but I feel that this currency selling is actually detrimental to the masses.
Xsyon's economy troubles are pretty much the same in Wurm. Players can easily make and gather all things they need removing the need to trade. The rate at which one achieves self sufficiency is the main reason to trade. Both games don't give players a lot of tools to deal with different play times between players. Transporting goods is difficult. Wurm has better transport but that is only because Xsyon is missing draft animals to pull carts.

Wurm is full of fanboys. Although, I don't agree the game is unfair on the forums. I've posted a lot on Wurm forums. My name is different there. They don't penalize you or delete your post unless you attack, insult, or defame the game, its developer or sometimes other players. I have often told Wurm or its developers that they are wrong and are making a mistake. Never have I gotten in trouble.

Xsyon is less grindy. Both games rely on the idea of doing some task over and over, repeat 1000's of times. Wurm uses a diminishing returns curve for skill progression. The effort to go from 98 to 100 might take as much or more time as it took to get to 98. Thankfully the actual difference between 98 and 100 is very small. Even 95 and 100 are not significantly different. 100 is mostly just a title for epeen players.

Wurm refuses to explain some important mechanics questions to the players. The Wurm model seems very complicated: crafting skills, specific tool use skill, tool qualities, toon characteristics, difficulty of the raw material your working with, difficulty of the final product your crafting, and a boat load of randomness thrown in for good measure.
Xyone doesn't explain things either but I have consistently gotten better answers on how things work in Xsyon. I'm guessing why Xyon gives better answers is tied to its slow progression and smaller development staff. In Wurm asking how something works often results in an hour or two long discussion amongst players. It also doesn't help that its rumored Wurm developers frequently make changes to mechanics and don't saying anything.

Wurm has a better wiki. Like Xsyon its player made so both can have errors sometimes.

The graphics and customization are better in Xsyon. For example, all character of the same kingdom wear the same cloths in Wurm. Armor does change the look of your toon. One exception is, as I stated already, in wurm its far easier and you have far more freedom to alter land anywhere.

Wurm has a wider breadth of crafting diversity. Xsyon has more depth for a given craft. For example, Wurm's main tool making skill, blacksmithing, has considerably less options then Xsyon's tool craft.
For Wurm its almost as if the game was created with a wide breadth of crafting branches but a lot of them have never been improved upon: toy making, dairy food making, beverages.

No commit on the combat part. Well, I actually like wurm's "stand there and wait for the opponent to die".

Finally, if I new to both, new what I know now, and where choosing between Wurm and Xsyon. well I choose Xsyon and mostly because of the cost to play. If you don't have good skills and lots of free time Wurm can be very expensive. I still play Wurm more than Xsyon. Mostly this is because I want to achieve some things and it takes a lot of time to do.

[azzymor]

Anon386 and PoundCake42 (excellent posts btw) both gives examples of features that would be nice to see in the game and would increase the immersion. But, .. (I'm guessing wildly now), I think the engine the game runs on (hopefully there is one) is pretty non-modular, inflexible and outdated that most of the suggested features would be close to impossible to implement.

Examples of things that would be nice to do/see

• Build tunnels
• Build anywhere I want. How come I don't know how a shovel works just because I'm outside of a tribe?
• A correct fluid system (not a surface as it is today)
• Build bottom->up instead of the opposite.
• Be able to rotate/tilt buildings/plans by any degrees.
• To be able to scale plans before they are built (not just stretch the bitmap, like it is for trees as they grow).
• A ballistic system (bows, spears and anything else that can be hurled)
• Birds, where are those?

These are just the technical aspectes of the game. My biggest grief though is about the reasons to play the game. There really is no need to build at all, no need for cloth/armor, no need for food/water. You can sit on a rock and craft all day long for no reason at all. That is my major concern.

[unclean666]

While I will not argue that they can use some improvement but armor does have its uses Def and Stats with half the stats having action based effects like run faster do more dmg ect.Food and water also has a need for hp and energy regen and lose.

[chaosegg]

As old as Xsyon or Wurm are, they are still the only games in town when you want to be in a true sandbox.

"True sandbox"? Is this fanboi zeal or a joke?
Sorry in advance if this is a bit troll-flame-tastic, but I guess I'm just a "bittervet".

[chaosegg]

Is there a 'third option' in this either-or?

There really is no need to build at all, no need for cloth/armor, no need for food/water. You can sit on a rock and craft all day long for no reason at all. That is my major concern.

Both Wurm and Xsyon sound like garbage to me, just from reading these posts.
Though I've not actually played Wurm, I loved what Xsyon has to offer... till what azzymor said above hit home for me, and I moved on to spend my time somewhere else.

[MrDDT]

"True sandbox"? Is this fanboi zeal or a joke?
Sorry in advance if this is a bit troll-flame-tastic, but I guess I'm just a "bittervet".

If you followed the topic, you can see why I believe this.
Also with the new cooking update you can see just how much sand is in the box. Millions of different combos for recipes on cooking, and the feel you get makes it feel closer to being a "cook" rather than click button craft.

[MrDDT]

The presence of those crafting mechanics is neat (though I cast huge doubt on how polished they will be and whether they actually live up to his words), but they will ultimately be worthless since there is no need for their output.
Who cares if you can make a million different kinds of recipes when the game doesn't call for it? There's no evolving PvP game that would drive people to experiment with consumables. There's no need for min-maxing when you're just slapping dumb AI.

I'm curious to see what this patch look like in something other than text.

It's on test server right now. I like it a lot, still needs a few bugs worked out and likely some timers fixed but I like it a lot.

I agree with your thought process though, but this is a good step in the right direction. I hope with cooking he will rework the survival aspect of the game a bit more.