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  1. #1

    02/06/2015 - Creatures Discussion

    This thread is for general discussion of creature improvements planned and in progress.

    To read about what is planned, what is in progress and to post technical issues and bugs please use the technical issues thread here

    The general feedback rules still apply to this discussion.

    1) Stay on topic. While there are many possibilities and questions with a open ended game like Xsyon, it's more constructive to focus on what is currently in the works.

    2) Keep the discussion civil, polite and genuine.

    3) Be clear and concise. It takes time to read and digest feedback.

    4) State your point and refrain from back and forth arguments with other players. Your concerns will be read, noted and considered.

    Insults and arguments will be removed.
    Last edited by Xsyon; 02-06-2015 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #2

    02/06/2015 - Creatures Discussion

    [Copied from other thread for reference and clarity of follow on posts by Guide Forcas]

    I'm resuming work on creatures and combat this week. We'll keep this thread open for feedback on what's in progress.

    Here is a list of what's on the agenda:

    1) Creatures currently run full speed up slopes. Terrain needs to affect creatures as it does players.

    2) Creatures sometimes go through walls. This is due to the path finding blocking system which needs to be improved.

    3) Creature stats need to be balanced again.

    4) Creatures are not growing in power fast enough. Too few creatures are reaching max legendary power.

    5) Creatures that reach old age but not enough power will die of old age to enable more creatures to breed.

    6) Creature names need to display more information so that players know what they are up against (for example an old age legendary chicken is going to be tougher than a normal run of the mill chicken. It's size is not enough of an indicator of its power).

    7) Creatures need proper collision on ramps.

    8) Creatures need to either attack players on boulders or run away, avoid them and reset.

    9) Creatures should not be able to attack players on walls above them.

    10) Ranged combat needs to be implemented.

    11) Any desynch with creatures needs to be dealt with as best as possible. Desynch is well explained in a link provided by one of our players here

    12) Ranges need to be adjusted. Most likely we need to go with less realistic melee ranges in favor of more playable ranges (like in many other games).

    Our overall strategy for creatures is as follows:

    - Small wild creatures will be easy to kill but will avoid players and should be hunted with ranged weapons.

    - Small city creatures (rats) will be easy to kill and will be attracted to towns. They will mob players in groups.

    - Mid size domestic creatures (cats and dogs) will be attracted to towns. They will pose a medium threat in a fight and will be easy to tame.

    - Mid size wild creatures will often attack and pose a medium combat threat. They will be a primary target for melee hunters.

    - Raccoons will be attracted to towns and scrap piles. They will pose a medium to strong combat threat but will often avoid combat.

    - Deer will primarily need to be chased and hunted and will attack only when they feel very threatened.

    - Bear and coyotes will be aggressive and tough in combat. The largest legendary specimens should require a group of players to kill.

    - Mutants will range in behavior but in general they will be difficult in combat. The larger mutants should require a group of players to kill.

    For now, this is mostly to keep you all informed. If you know of any other major issues with creatures, feel free to post them.

    This is not a thread to start discussions or debates. When changes are ready to test, I will request specific feedback.

    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    amish paradise PA
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    ""8) Creatures need to either attack players on boulders or run away, avoid them and reset.""
    This is my opinion, creatures should run away, and players combat should be disabled so players won't be able to attack creatures with ranged weapons from safety positions, this way players will have time to rest or run away from danger.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:27 PM.

  4. #4
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    2. i agree, also critters, i can see it most of the time on deers, run trought trees when they flee or chased you.

    3. the old system when mutants gave a secondary stat was way better imo. cosinder a normal bear with about 400+ HP gives 1.00 power on bones which give 0.75 str. a mutant bear with 1200+ HP gives 1.00 power for 1.00 Str.! seriously? thats ridiculous! they are not to weak. unlees their body does not cover the center, they are even fightable ( still needs to be fixed ). but the rewarding ist really messed up now, just imho.

    4. i dont agree, they grow slow and if its as your guides said a legendary or unique mob, its fine like that. people who wants to get them on a higher power can still train them. problem is that tey turn too far into the mist and barely come out! there are plenty, just unavailable. https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...bddb8c38e55ac3

    5. wouldnt it make more sense to change it that all will reach max age/power and let them die after a certain time? unique?

    6. 1-5 star bosses? i agree so far

    7/10. great idea, i used boulders a lot, still doing to make it easier if i hunt alone. but boulders will be a big problem once archery comes ingame. reset when cliffing sounds well!

    13. the point you forgot prolly. animals with low hp/atk should be/stay in the zones they are supposed to be and where low hp/atk player are supposed to be to fight them.

    once we have rats in our tribes which maybe make trouble, we should ( once we have taimed animals ) be able to use taimed animals which fight them, maybe? would make sure that taiming is not something you do one time and then you have pets over years. it would help to kill pets and keep taiming active, imo ( yes i know i can open a thread in suggestions..) :P
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:27 PM.

  5. #5
    Xsyon Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    amish paradise PA
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    Reset is a bad idea, leads to frustration, and boulder could be used by two or more players as a way to easy kill, one player will run around boulder wile other player shoots from safety if combat is not disabled on boulders, then take turns when runner don't have enough stamina.

    I have another question: How will grouping work? will there be invites? How will group loot distributed, will it be like WOW = free for all or it will be distributed evenly for every one to avoid player frustration, personally I dislike WOW's loot.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:56 PM.

  6. #6
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    The system of using a rock to regen your HP but the animal can't get to you and doesnt regen is not a good system. With this tactic no animal in the game would be hard at all to kill (like now) and if that is the case why not just have them die in 1 hit?
    I can understand using a rock/tree/wall/fence etc to get safe, but the animal should be able to heal up and run away also. If someone chooses this tactic it should be in defense not as a way to rest up to kill it while it can't heal up.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:57 PM.

  7. #7
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    Could you expand on your plan for ranged combat? It sounds like you intend it to only be useful for small creatures that will run away, and you would need the damage that a melee weapon provides to take on anything large?

    The boulder problem is going to be very difficult to solve, and it will depend heavily on how ranged combat turns out. Your best bet is probably to either let creatures attack people on boulders, or to make ranged combat very ineffective against the type of creatures you would want to use this exploit against.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:57 PM.

  8. #8
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    so melee is also only for small creatures? if you fight a bear with any melee weapon, maybe even unarmed, you do hit and run. you dont stay in front of him and fight! at least thats how to fight them, unless you have 2k hp maybe xD

    where is the problem to do hit and run with an archer?
    and still we have to wait how ranged combat works anyway. its not a corean game where you target a mob and spam skills. i prefer the old RPG way like gothic had.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:57 PM.

  9. #9
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    [Quote edited out as quoted post deleted from thread by Guide Forcas]

    Sitting on a rock safe from the creature while you heal up is the exploit.

    I dont believe this was ever intended.

    I believe its actually a bug, standing on the rock removes the player from being on the ground and from being at the same elavation as the creature, this causes the creature to lose the player as a target and can no longer hit the player. It explains why standing on a player made ramp has the same affect. (although standing on some roofs and floating floors actually allows creatures to hit you)

    IMO if the creature can reach you then it should be able to hit you. Just because you are sitting on a tiny rock the creature loses the ability to hit something that is 1 inch away from it. That is the exploit.

    Small rocks should not offer any protection from creatures. period.

    IF the player stands on a very large rock then the creature should regain its all its health the instant the player goes out of combat. Players managing to get out of combat and be unreachable always cause the creature to regain all its health instantly on other mmo's ive played.

    Standing on a rock and healing up while the creature you just attacked cant get to you should only be allowed if the creature heals up to full very quickly.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:57 PM.

  10. #10
    [Moved from other thread by Guide Forcas]

    Note that the biggest problem with critters and cliffs isn't so much that they run full speed up cliffs, but that they can go up cliffs that players can't climb. Unless critter speed going up vertical slopes is slowed to a crawl, this will not affect game play much, i.e. when a player can get one more bow shot to finish a wounded critter as it slows to climb a cliff.

    Critters that can't get to a player on a rock or a wall should not run off and reset. If they cannot get to a melee player they should wander off after 15-30 seconds. If they are being hit by ranged and cannot hit back, they should run off immediately but not reset.

    Allowing critters to regain hp fast would make cooking and fires (i.e. most of Jordi's work for 2014) much less useful.

    Having critters vacate the area if they can't get to a player could be exploited to make an area temporarily safe. Say you want to scavenge a junk pile, but there are three big shadow bears there. If you could agro them, climb up on a rock and then they would all run away, you would make that area temporarily safe at little risk to yourself.

    In rebalancing critter stats, look at lowering the speed of attack on rats, the damage moderation on marmots, and possibly the hp's on small mutants.

    Note that the primary target for players training melee will probably remain revs.
    Last edited by GuideForcas; 02-06-2015 at 04:58 PM.

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