01/30/2015 Multi-Story Building Discussion

[Bejaymac]

Pwnuts let's take your place as an example, only the ground floor of that multi story is actually working correctly, that's due to them being attached to the ground. The other floors lost their attachment to the ground when you terraformed the dirt from under them, I don't have access to the logs, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a very long list of errors coming from them.

Now errors are bad for a game, even more so for an online game, they affect the stability of the client and server and can even cause them to crash, they also add to the LAG/latency players suffer from, and from what Jordi has posted it also screws up the critter AI.

Jordi could have been evil and just went "F you lot" and crashed all of our buildings down to ground level, and then blocked us from making any more multi story buildings. But he hasn't, instead he's given us a new system, one where each item is attached to the ground either directly or through other items, while at the same time he's added something to our existing structures that has "bolted" them all together, just try dismantling a 1st story item on the test server and you'll see what I mean.

Last time I seen a real treehouse it was bolted to the tree or used a separate support structure, which is kind of hard to do in game.

As for that tribe you mentioned, if he doesn't finish it before this goes live then he's in for a bit of a nightmare, as most of his ghosts will have to be removed as he wont be able to build them, he'll probably have to redesign the whole place. Ghosts shouldn't be an issue any more, as you can only see the ones in your own tribe now, all we can see of other tribes ghosts is the pegs and frames.

[MrDDT]

Bejay, the floating buildings is not causing the issues you are talking about, its the overlapping buildings or (drop placed) ones.

The issue you are talking about has to be fixed either way. Whether you have support items or they are floating.

The point you saying it is "kinda hard to do in game" the fact is still you are REMOVING options from the game. You are mixing a lot of issues that are being fixed without the new change to building. Like the ghost lagging people. Has nothing to do with the new building system, and it on way limits players choice in buildings.

Bejay, he could have come back and said that yep. However, he would have seen even less people building as there would only be single story buildings and Xsyon's building system wouldn't be impressive. Now currently, Xsyon has one of the best building systems I've seen in an MMO. You put limits on it, and you are pushing Xsyon back into an era where it's just lackluster even more. Instead of limiting people he should be EMPOWERING people to be able to build more.

Just think on how you can build a room larger than 1 tile above the ground without silly posts in your way. It looks so silly I can't even start on how bad it is. Let alone the amazing things we have like Ravenmoons totem "Raven" or Elite's Tree house, or "Tower of Power". Just kiss them good bye. Because any new buildings CAN'T be built like that.
Bridges? Nope, can't be done.

Instead of limiting it, I would much rather have seen the work, time and effort be put into ADDing ways to do it better, and more wondrous things. Like bridges he always said we will be able to do. Well players found ways to do it, and now he is removing them. Unless of course you are ok with a bridge that has 4 pillars per for tile and in only shallow water.

[Pwnuts]

well, my 2 cents are there. back to the topic. once you gone "fix" (as you say ) architecture, there are 2-3 things should be done as well.

1st i'd like to see that all pioneer walls fit to each other. right now the gate fits only with the Log Wall III. all other walls will have diffrent high's on the logs.

2nd i'd like to be able, even with the new system to make a patio again. so remove the blocking of walls which a player wants to move under a roof ( its not unrealistic to make this at all )


3rd create a expandable frame. to show how it could work i drawed a explaination. -> http://kaoz-subs.de/peanuts/stütze.png
i just made the normal one to explain how it can be. a corner frame (still the same just with 2 instead of 1 short sides) would be neccessairy to expand in 2 directions.
for sure in 4x4 and 8x8

4th all posts are higher than 4m. change them to 4m high so we can still build a post over another one without collision.

no commercial for other games, but a frame under every constructions is not neccesairy to make something realistic. this short part of another games trailer will explain a physic of building i really like. http://youtu.be/wwJUlQID3nM?t=3m26s

[Xsyon]

To Pwnuts:

Regarding Pioneer Walls: All walls and gates fit together well now. The only exception is the Low Limestone Wall that needs revised placement bounds. Some walls and gates may visibly extend beyond their placement bounds and may overlap slightly when placed together. I may adjust the visible meshes in the near future, but these are fine for now as placement and collision is proper.

Regarding Patios: If you mean the mason floor in the screenshot, something like this can be easily done with the revised system. Walls align with their centers to floor edges. Floors slide under and in between trusses.

Regarding an 'expandable frame': This is a 'Cantilever Truss', which is already on the Test Server being tested.

Regarding posts: The collision and placement bounds for all posts are 4m high. The visible meshes may extend beyond the bounds, but for construction purposes only the placement bounds are used. Stacking columns to create interior spaces of any height is easy with the new system.

With this update players will be able to:

- Sink parts into the ground to create sidewalks and steps from platforms, low walls and fences, sunken columns and other situations.
- Stack floors and 2m high platforms in addition to all 4m high parts.
- Build ramps and platforms inside frames.
- Actually stack parts on floors rather than placing objects within each other at the same height level.
- Build interior spaces of any height easily that can have room parts inside the interior spaces.
- Build from ground up (which makes sense!) This allows for adding stories without restarting (which as I understand is not possible with the current trick methods).
- Renovate without tearing down.

Maximum spans are currently 8m but will increase to 16m with a second update (with new parts).

Bridges will be easy to build at any height.
Trees houses will be easy to build but will require some minimal visible supports.

As an example I've attached a simple bridge rendering using 8m cantilevers that will be part of the second update. It also uses fence parts (that will be included) as rails. Something like this will be easy to build over any river or gorge, by using base posts under the trusses.

In my opinion this will look much better than a simple row of floating platforms.

I've already seen a few things built with ease on the Test Server that I've never seen on the Main Servers.

[Mactavendish]

Thank you for that info Xsyon, It really will help people to see what can be done.

I look forward to the patch very much as you are aware!

Oh, one thing I did notice you cannot use the scavenger board roof ( the flat topped one that can slide under easy now ), to support anything as its a roof. I doubt I will ever use it again now, since a truss will be cleaner looking. Had thought to use it as an awning around the edges of other structures like apartments, but with its rough uneven looks I would rather use cantilevers now.

Still trying to see how I can use a corner wall on anything but the ground, since it needs to be supported... May have to do more testing

[Xsyon]

To Mactavendish:

You should still be able to use the scavenger roof as awnings and I'll be adding more roof parts based on the current parts with a near future patch (by request).

As for the corner walls, they can be off the ground supported by regular, corner, cantilever corner trusses or posts. Here's an example of a corner wall off the ground. In the background there is a corner floor on a regular truss.

This is just a preview of what will be possible as more parts are in the works allowing for players to build with flexibility and ease.


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[Pwnuts]

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3...qk7we7_png.htm
was not about the floor. the floor is currently in a position everyone could simply move it. the wall and the gate are under a roof, which is not possibile without dropping. thats what i meant.
thanks for the response

[Bejaymac]

Skill capped atm so can't check, but I don't think you can do that with an 8x8 roof, however you can do it with 4 4x4 roofs and with relative ease.

[Xsyon]

To Pwnuts:

Walls can be inserted inside 8x8m frames and roofs at the 4m line. Here's an example from my test projects.

[Xsyon]

This is an example of what can built using trusses and 4x8m cantilevers that will be patched out in the second building update.

This was built without moving any dirt or building any additional temporary ramps. I did build temporary floors in the truss towers to help me construct this. This spans more than a homestead in width. It's a work in progress, but shows off a bit of what's to come!

The second image uses a truss that was original part of a bridge truss piece (never patched out). Trusses like this will also be part of the second building update.