Some critics

[Jadzia]

Everyone has access to basic resources. Its about limited the resources.
I dont know why you think its "pure annoyance" when its limited the resources. If you have 0 trees in your area, and ocoma has 100s, well guess what? He has a resource YOU dont have, thus will promote trade. Maybe you have resources he doesnt have.

You need to look outside your little safezone box and understand how economy works. Strife and limited resources promote trade and economy. Create a need for something, and demand will go up. Limit the supply and it becomes more of a value.

Right now there is limited need, because supply is through the roof. Also demand is low, because of lacking of a many needs.

I do believe you are wrong. If this would be some high level resource I'd agree with you. But you are caving and destroying junkpiles. Now imagine a new player enters the game and he can't find a junkpile due to your unselfish action. He can't trade because he has nothing to offer. He can't skill up because there are no materials to train with. What can he do ? To leave the game. Thats not good for anyone.

And about trading. How could I trade long logs with anyone lol...running with it is like slow motion and you can carry only 1. So if I wanted to buy 200 long logs who would carry it to me ? I would never be able to pay so much for people to carry it...so I'd just give up. That doesn't boost the economy because its kind of impossible.

Access to basic resources have to be easy for everyone, otherwise people can't play and can't progress. High level recipes and high level crafted items are the ones which need to be traded, and resources that are rare.

[Azhul_NS]

I do believe you are wrong. If this would be some high level resource I'd agree with you. But you are caving and destroying junkpiles. Now imagine a new player enters the game and he can't find a junkpile due to your unselfish action. He can't trade because he has nothing to offer. He can't skill up because there are no materials to train with. What can he do ? To leave the game. Thats not good for anyone.

Right. It isn't good, but it's not the players' fault. It's the way the game was made. So your wrath is misdirected.

[Jadzia]

Right. It isn't good, but it's not the players' fault. It's the way the game was made. So your wrath is misdirected.

I agree with you that its mainly a development mistake. I hope they will fix it, it would be a very very easy fix (just respawn trees fast and don't let people to build roads on junkpiles). But till then if someone do this its his fault as well.

[MrDDT]

I do believe you are wrong. If this would be some high level resource I'd agree with you. But you are caving and destroying junkpiles. Now imagine a new player enters the game and he can't find a junkpile due to your unselfish action. He can't trade because he has nothing to offer. He can't skill up because there are no materials to train with. What can he do ? To leave the game. Thats not good for anyone.

And about trading. How could I trade long logs with anyone lol...running with it is like slow motion and you can carry only 1. So if I wanted to buy 200 long logs who would carry it to me ? I would never be able to pay so much for people to carry it...so I'd just give up. That doesn't boost the economy because its kind of impossible.

Access to basic resources have to be easy for everyone, otherwise people can't play and can't progress. High level recipes and high level crafted items are the ones which need to be traded, and resources that are rare.

First off, you dont NEED a junk pile to get resources.
Second off if you couldnt find a junk pile then likely you didnt play but 2 seconds. If there were only 1 junk pile and it was controlled by a person you might have something to talk about, but there are 100s of junk piles all over the map. In the starting area there so many I cant even count them all. Its more than anywhere else. So you are talking in theory or practice? If I could pave over every junk pile you still wouldnt have a point because there are other resources other than junk piles that people can do and use. Then join a tribe with junk piles. Or trade labor for access to a junk pile.
Yes new players with out access to ANY resources might quit. But you shouldnt have 100s of these around the map. There is enough protected junk piles that new players have very very easy access too.

You should say "They should make some safe junk piles in each starting area" instead saying not to limit resources. Everyone has access to basic resources in game now. Its not about access its about limiting the amount. Im ok with access, Im not ok with how much there is. Right now there unlimited, and many many locations are unlimited. That's not good for economy.

Ive yet to hear any new player say "I cant find a junk pile" because I would call them out on it. You should try making a new toon and see how close junk piles are to EVERY starting area.

Are you now telling me that junk piles are the only way to kill up skills?

Please learn how trading and economy works.

Next logs yes, and Im missing your point. You know that woodcutting is a skill in game right? Logs are NOT the only resource from trees.
Even if they were logs CAN be traded if the need is high enough. I myself have hauled logs pretty far down mts for a tribe. They paid me to do it.

Im not going to disagree that carts or some way to export items that are heavy like logs and bricks etc should be in game to promote economy even more, supply and demand drive economy. Right now the supply is very very high, and the demand is pretty low (lacking people playing or a reason to even build a tent).

If I remove the high supply, that means demand will go up, due to people not getting supplied with it. Which will make people do/paid more for these items. Its simple economics 101.

Added after 5 minutes:

I agree with you that its mainly a development mistake. I hope they will fix it, it would be a very very easy fix (just respawn trees fast and don't let people to build roads on junkpiles). But till then if someone do this its his fault as well.

This comment right is why I know you dont know what you are talking about this is NOT helping the econ its not helping the game.

What you should say is something like "fix regrowth and planting" not "respawn trees fast".
You should also say "allow junk piles to respawn or be planted" not "stop people from paving roads on junk piles".

Both your statements do NOTHING for econ but a limited time fix, and with the junk piles it hurts the economy.

The junk piles in game right now are unlimited why would we need to protect that resource? I will never run my junk pile out. Never its never ending even if I farm it everyday for resources it wont run out. Its that big. Is this going to help the econ where everyone has these junk piles?
Heck why not just make it EVERYWHERE is a junk pile and you dont even need special spots for it.

Please post more to try to break the game.

Only development mistake Ive seen here, is the fact that trees cant be planted or respawned. (with reguards to trees and junk piles)
This is being fixed the next patch (or so they say).

Junk piles are many for a reason, it was expected to have more people playing, and thus more people using up junk piles and more of a need for junk. It was like this at the start which was it was changed from 4 to 8.

I would like to see (but not really needed) junk piles not respawn every 48h like they do now. I would like to see them go away, and then randomly respawn in the world.

[Jadzia]

MrDDT, the problem is that these are basic resources. In every game basic resources are easy to access and not limited. They are not for boosting the economy, they are for training and getting basic stuffs up. The game is not designed so that we would need to protect these resources, its not even possible since we can't be online 24/7. When they add contested resources that will be another question.

Do you know that building roads was added later, and earlier you were only able to build roads inside you tribe territory, just like every other terraforming action ? They added it to make it possible to build real roads, and not to give us a tool to destroy junkpiles. It simply wasn't thought out, and now you are exploiting it. Building roads weren't developed as a junkpile-killing tool.

And as you said, you can't destroy every junkpile, so you just do it around some tribes to annoy them ? If you can't stop yourself then destroy the ones that are out in the forest if you want to lower their amount.
But I have no intention to argue with you. You have such a deep self-righteousness that you always believe you are the only one who is right, and your way is the only way. Somewhere you wrote that players don't know what they want...good you are here to tell us. Lol.

[NorCalGooey]

First off, you dont NEED a junk pile to get resources.
Second off if you couldnt find a junk pile then likely you didnt play but 2 seconds. If there were only 1 junk pile and it was controlled by a person you might have something to talk about, but there are 100s of junk piles all over the map. In the starting area there so many I cant even count them all. Its more than anywhere else. So you are talking in theory or practice? If I could pave over every junk pile you still wouldnt have a point because there are other resources other than junk piles that people can do and use. Then join a tribe with junk piles. Or trade labor for access to a junk pile.
Yes new players with out access to ANY resources might quit. But you shouldnt have 100s of these around the map. There is enough protected junk piles that new players have very very easy access too.

You should say "They should make some safe junk piles in each starting area" instead saying not to limit resources. Everyone has access to basic resources in game now. Its not about access its about limiting the amount. Im ok with access, Im not ok with how much there is. Right now there unlimited, and many many locations are unlimited. That's not good for economy.

Ive yet to hear any new player say "I cant find a junk pile" because I would call them out on it. You should try making a new toon and see how close junk piles are to EVERY starting area.

Are you now telling me that junk piles are the only way to kill up skills?

Please learn how trading and economy works.

Next logs yes, and Im missing your point. You know that woodcutting is a skill in game right? Logs are NOT the only resource from trees.
Even if they were logs CAN be traded if the need is high enough. I myself have hauled logs pretty far down mts for a tribe. They paid me to do it.

Im not going to disagree that carts or some way to export items that are heavy like logs and bricks etc should be in game to promote economy even more, supply and demand drive economy. Right now the supply is very very high, and the demand is pretty low (lacking people playing or a reason to even build a tent).

If I remove the high supply, that means demand will go up, due to people not getting supplied with it. Which will make people do/paid more for these items. Its simple economics 101.

Added after 5 minutes:



This comment right is why I know you dont know what you are talking about this is NOT helping the econ its not helping the game.

What you should say is something like "fix regrowth and planting" not "respawn trees fast".
You should also say "allow junk piles to respawn or be planted" not "stop people from paving roads on junk piles".

Both your statements do NOTHING for econ but a limited time fix, and with the junk piles it hurts the economy.

The junk piles in game right now are unlimited why would we need to protect that resource? I will never run my junk pile out. Never its never ending even if I farm it everyday for resources it wont run out. Its that big. Is this going to help the econ where everyone has these junk piles?
Heck why not just make it EVERYWHERE is a junk pile and you dont even need special spots for it.

Please post more to try to break the game.

Only development mistake Ive seen here, is the fact that trees cant be planted or respawned. (with reguards to trees and junk piles)
This is being fixed the next patch (or so they say).

Junk piles are many for a reason, it was expected to have more people playing, and thus more people using up junk piles and more of a need for junk. It was like this at the start which was it was changed from 4 to 8.

I would like to see (but not really needed) junk piles not respawn every 48h like they do now. I would like to see them go away, and then randomly respawn in the world.

DDT you just scored a 4 pointer if there ever was such a shot. There is so much junk around us 50 active players couldn't farm it all in a month if they all treated gathering junk like a full time job.

I think the reason their are so many resources in game is because they expected more players to be playing. It's hard to balance supply/demand when your population can die and come back to life whenever they want (quit and rejoin the game)

If 10,000 players all joined tomorrow, we wouldn't be having this conversation. All except the part about hauling trees...we need a way to do this more efficiently.

[MrDDT]

MrDDT, the problem is that these are basic resources. In every game basic resources are easy to access and not limited. They are not for boosting the economy, they are for training and getting basic stuffs up. The game is not designed so that we would need to protect these resources, its not even possible since we can't be online 24/7. When they add contested resources that will be another question.

Do you know that building roads was added later, and earlier you were only able to build roads inside you tribe territory, just like every other terraforming action ? They added it to make it possible to build real roads, and not to give us a tool to destroy junkpiles. It simply wasn't thought out, and now you are exploiting it. Building roads weren't developed as a junkpile-killing tool.

And as you said, you can't destroy every junkpile, so you just do it around some tribes to annoy them ? If you can't stop yourself then destroy the ones that are out in the forest if you want to lower their amount.
But I have no intention to argue with you. You have such a deep self-righteousness that you always believe you are the only one who is right, and your way is the only way. Somewhere you wrote that players don't know what they want...good you are here to tell us. Lol.

Im not exploiting anything, and you saying that just shows had bad you are. First off I didnt build a road ANYWHERE I didnt place a totem. Even if I could, its still not exploiting. Just because you think its a neg effect on players doesnt mean its exploiting. Building roads is there for a reason.
It would be like me saying "I like your spot you placed your town, you are exploiting it" makes no sense.

Im not always right, Ive been wrong before. I admit when Im wrong. You dont, and you are wrong often.

Players often tend to not know what they want. They think they know whats best for them but often its not. It would be like giving a child candy right before bed, or water right before bed. If they knew and understand the side effects (teeth falling out, and peeing the bed etc) then they wouldnt want that now would they?

People want things easy for them all the time, they dont understand it has side effects. If everyone had what they want, then there would be no trade, no econ.

Roads are NOT the only way to destroy junk piles. There are a few ways. I dont see your point here.
Roads are a great idea. The problem is how much junk piles are in the world, not the roads. If you want a junk pile protect it. Oh wait you cant because you dont want to place a totem over it, you want it everything your way.
Also you wont protect it with force because you are a PVEer gotcha. So who cares about trade and economy. Its all about what Jadzia wants. Sadly its not whats good for the game, nor the vision of a well thought out economy.

You say you cant protect the resources 24/7 well I have to show you thats 100% wrong. My resources are 100% protected 24/7, as I stated already up a few lines on how to do that. Just admit it you are wrong, and you just want it your way.


Im not even going to go into the warfare side of this WHOLE topic. Which let me tell you is great part of it too. Because I know it will fall on deaf ears as you have no idea how to PVP, nor what people that are interested in PVP want.

[Jadzia]

Players often tend to not know what they want. They think they know whats best for them but often its not. It would be like giving a child candy right before bed, or water right before bed. If they knew and understand the side effects (teeth falling out, and peeing the bed etc) then they wouldnt want that now would they?

Thats exactly how you think. Everyone is a child (apart of the ones who agree with you ) and you are their superior who know better. And you have the right to tell them how to do things. Lol. You should respect other players a bit more.

Roads are NOT the only way to destroy junk piles. There are a few ways. I dont see your point here.
Roads are a great idea. The problem is how much junk piles are in the world, not the roads. If you want a junk pile protect it. Oh wait you cant because you dont want to place a totem over it, you want it everything your way.
Also you wont protect it with force because you are a PVEer gotcha. So who cares about trade and economy. Its all about what Jadzia wants. Sadly its not whats good for the game, nor the vision of a well thought out economy.

You always think that I speak for myself. I never had any problem with junkpile-pavers, nor tree killers. None of them happened in my area. What you do is bad for other players, but you think you know better and you have the right to do so. You might make people quit the game but you don't care because you are so sure you are some god-like player who knows what is good for others.

I'm done arguing with you. Your self-righteousness makes it hopeless.

[MrDDT]

Thats exactly how you think. Everyone is a child (apart of the ones who agree with you ) and you are their superior who know better. And you have the right to tell them how to do things. Lol. You should respect other players a bit more.


You always think that I speak for myself. I never had any problem with junkpile-pavers, nor tree killers. None of them happened in my area. What you do is bad for other players, but you think you know better and you have the right to do so. You might make people quit the game but you don't care because you are so sure you are some god-like player who knows what is good for others.

I'm done arguing with you. Your self-righteousness makes it hopeless.

You have made people quit.
People quit over many things. Look at all the people you already have said quit over the FFA PVP combat rules.

When people make child like statements, I treat the statement like a childlike statement.

If someone like you says "I want safe zones everywhere because I want a good trade system" that statement doesnt work. Good trade system isnt helped by safe areas. Strife create demand. Demand drives economy. Safe areas do not promote a lot of demand.

Make a bad statement, I will correct it. If you have a reason why my views do not work, post your opinion why they wont with reasons that make sense. Posting "They wont work because they wont" isnt a good reason. Post why. Then, I can retort with why I thing your reasons may or may not be right. Thats a debate, thats how ideas spawn and are hammered out.

Posting, "Its how I want it or people will quit" isnt going to help. You always talking about how everyone is going to quit quit quit. If they dont do it your way everyone quits.
You act like you speak for everyone even when we all know its not the case. Plus dont forget this game isnt just for the people, its the Dev's idea. You know what will bring a ton of people into the game? Make the game a WOW clone, or make it like Lineage 2. Heck just make it free to play with a cash shop. More people will play I promise you that.
But being that its not ONLY about how many people are playing, there are other factors. You should consider them and factor them into the problem.

Just like you have to factor in what the devs can or cant code. You cant think of a solution to a problem which you know cant work based on the devs being limited in what they can do. It would be like asking them to make a 5min intro like WOW has into the game. Just not going to happen.

[Azhul_NS]

It is simply not reasonable to blame players for playing the game the way it is designed. If players could only gain one skill point in logging each day, then they would not be clearing entire forests. This game is about competing tribes. Anyone not in your tribe is a potential enemy. Depriving the enemy of resources is a key part of war. Any method of doing so which is not an exploit or cheat is fair play.

Of course, some players are likely to quit if their trees and scrap piles are depleted (why the hell wouldn't you put your totem on a scrap pile?), but some are likely to quit when they get killed and lose some of their stuff. Some are going to quit if they can't find anyone to trade with.

You can't make a game to please EVERYONE. Games that try to please everyone, end up pleasing no one.