PK and onsequences

**fflhktsn** · 02-22-2011, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by orious13

I doubt you're going to get your game...it's really that simple.

There are some factors of immersion and real life simulation that don't work in a video game. Over the years I actually kept trying to propose and say the same thing you just said "there should be no choice, it should just be...".

I agree with that, but then you must grow to realize the problem is that people play games LIKE a game regardless if it's realistic or not. If you added everything how it should be, it won't be played how it "should be". If you added things so that the game resembled an amazing alternate reality complete with all of its freedoms and morals, it won't be played like that reality.

Are we going to get a pvp sandbox with lots of sand and no safe zones....probably not with this game.

Its too risky, its uncharted waters, and its going to take a developer with some serious balls to really go against the grain.

A lot of the origional followers of this game are hardcore pve'ers, this game will cater to them. The largest and longest standing tribe is a carebear tribe, the game will cater to them.

Will it offer the pvp option, sure, but it wont be a totally uniqe (other than the terraforming) sandbox, and theres already a lot of rules that take away from the freedom your suppose to get in a sandbox.

Im not looking for realism, i get that in real life. Im looking for a sandbox with basically no rules, not a sandbox patrolled by police officers, seperating the sandbox into areas where i can throw sand and areas where i can make sand castles in peace...with the ability to play wiht my sand behind privacy curtains shelterd from the rest of the players.

However the games in development, all i can do is voice my opinion, just like everyone else.

One day someone will make a game like this, without the main focus as combat, but with no rules and no saftey. Just like in game however, its always the safe route that people take. The safe route is to not upset the big tribe and not to upset the long time followers who just want to play nice and sperated from those who want somewhat of a rule free game.

Thats just how these things go..

However i think this game would make some pretty big waves if it broke the mold and offerd the no rules pvp, just as long as it ran stable and was somewhat bug free....lot of people are looking for that type of game and it would have no competition.

Ill stick with the game, see how it goes, but i stopped getting my hopes up long long ago over these things. Darkfall was close, but all it has was combat and not much else that matterd. Also the magic was lame, we dont need magic.

**orious13** · 02-22-2011, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by fflhktsn

~snipped~

Good

.

Keep voicing.

I'm sure there will be a lot of satisfying things for many play types. Just good that you understand both sides not just from a player stand point but also from a development stand point. And if the current development strategy (whatever it may be) is a huge hit (I think they are taking the best of both worlds), they might allow different servers with different rule sets to appease a more niche of the niche.

**Dubanka** · 02-22-2011, 04:00 PM

*shrug*
i think the current environment is pretty open.
it will be interesting to see how tribal warfare is implemented.

honestly there needs to be some 'penalty' for being evil...the challenge is to make it not so brutal that you lose that element of the game.

it's also difficult to balance reality right now with what the game will 'be'. Do you really balance the 'end game' off of what currently passes as noob gank pvp? That would be incredibly stupid.

I'm going to go out on a limb and wager that death will mean a lot more when gear loss is a bit more painful than some grass pants and a sweet rice patty hat.

THe mechanics are just off putting right now because the naked gank squad has just as much power as the uber organized super craft guild. I'm sure thats frustrating.

IN the end, the pvp focused guilds willhave to be JUST as craft focused as teh craftees in order ot be competetive in the arms escalation...especially considering that a fair portion of the pvp's will actually be on the good side...we typically tend to allign ourselves where we get a fight...if thats attacking the sheep? great. If that's protecting the sheep? great. Just give us a fight.

so...arguments bred out of noob frustration and boredom...without a lot of basis in reality because we don't really know what that is yet.

**Dontaze_Mebro** · 02-22-2011, 04:02 PM

It's not really anyone's responsibility to patrol noob spawns. IF a few community minded tribes take it upon themselves to bring some order to the chaos that is on them. They are by no means required to save anyone at anytime. So if you want 24 hour protected noob zones then you are playing the wrong game. What you can do is not be an idiot. Don't bring anything with you EVER that you cannot stand to lose. If you're so attached to sprites and pixels though because they represent your "time" then your time probably isn't worth much anyway, and you should get out of your mom's basement for a few hours and enjoy real life.

**fflhktsn** · 02-22-2011, 04:14 PM

PVP penalties is a terrible idea.

Is the idea behind this to nerf pvp players so that a crafter can fight back better? Why even offer the sandbox option of rolling a combat character?

Our penalty is that we cant craft. You dont want to limit who is evil and who isnt, frankly it should be a surprise. I dont want a red "hey kill me" flag over my head. If you punish those who choose evil your not going to have anyone to war against come the tribal warfare. Evils punishment should be based on how the community interacts with known evil tibes and tribe members.

Why must i be punished for choosing not to safely craft in the confines of my safe zone? Hell i should be rewarded for taking the bigger risk, but thats not my stlye and would be just as awful of an idea.

Its post apocolypse, i have no idea who that guy on the horizon is, what his intentions are, who he is aligned with. I like the suspense in that, i like the unknown. Marking him with a red flag...ok i know what to do now. Marking him based on alignment...ok i know what to do now...leave him as is...all options are on the table untill i get close enough to know that he is either friend or foe...to me that is a thrill.

**Haunt** · 02-22-2011, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by jumpshot

THIS THIS THIS THIS. It drives me crazy how in every PvP sandbox(ish) game people cry for Dev intervention. DO IT YOURSELF.

BRAVO

**dxwarlock** · 02-22-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by fflhktsn

PVP penalties is a terrible idea.

Our penalty is that we cant craft. You dont want to limit who is evil and who isnt, frankly it should be a surprise. I dont want a red "hey kill me" flag over my head. If you punish those who choose evil your not going to have anyone to war against come the tribal warfare. Evils punishment should be based on how the community interacts with known evil tibes and tribe members.

Why must i be punished for choosing not to safely craft in the confines of my safe zone?

because the consequences that usually go with it aren't applicable ingame..
no possiblity of jail time,
no possibility of having to decide "if I attack this guy he may kill me" like real life..there is no "oh well he kicked my ass, wait for respawn" in real life.
no possibility of being a true "outcast" thats not welcome in towns, ran off by the sherrifs, trying to hide in caves to stop from being caught.

think about it, if the decision to be a killer in game was as real in real life..probably 90% of PvP wouldnt PvP.

so real life consequences of being a "murderer" and ingame are different..the scripting in the game has to some how account for the 'hardships and downside" of being one.

EVERYTHING needs plus and minuses, up and downs, good and bad.
the good: you dont need to gather, craft,horde, haggle for items..you steal from from your kills.

the bad: you get marked as evil..only the game is introducing a mechanic that it needs to emulate the part of being evil in real life..

EvE, one of the biggest PvP MMO's out now does it very well..your sec status goes down the more you kill..the less welcome you are in empire.

you have to remember people come and go in game..there is no effect like real life that keeps people as "known criminals".
like the wild west and billy the kid..EVERYONE knew who he was..and he actually did have a "hey kill me" flag over his head. any town he went into they knew who he was, and he was hunted.

here with the lower graphics and LOD of the game vs real life.., we cant really 'identify' you like you can spot someone in real life. we need a mechanic to know your one of the ones everyones looking out for.

**Doc** · 02-22-2011, 04:26 PM