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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dezgard View Post
    OK to clear it up a little.

    1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
    2) What purpose do you need them for?.
    3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
    4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
    5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)
    1. I do not care much for mounts. Terrain in Xsyon is too rugged to make fast travel on mounts believeable. I like carts for transporting goods.
    2. Transporting goods, let me get 10 logs or 100 bricks from somewhere to my camp.
    3. In my opinion: only for hauling large loads.
    4. I like your wheel barrow and bear cart suggestion. I'd be happy if we only got the wheel cart for a start because I assume that for the beer (nice typo cart we would need taming.
    5. Carts, carts, carts!

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dezgard View Post
    Hello Xsyonians!

    I would like some feedback on this subject "carts/mounts transport" give as much details as you can.

    Carts what should they do?
    How should they do it?
    Do you ride in it?
    Is it faster or slower?
    Do they carry more items?
    Do they carry more items and move faster?
    Is it a wheel barrow (people powered) or horse (animal powered)?
    Should it be faster or slower thank running or walking?
    What happens when you die does it stay behind or or do you lose it?
    And what type of transport would you expect to see?
    So basically what you think carts/mounts transport should be.

    Please be as detailed as possible.

    Thanks.

    Carts: Wheel barrow

    Pushed by the player.
    Same speed as walking.
    Holds maybe total weight of players carry weight X 3.
    If you die its left where it is.
    Pushing it adds to strength.

    Mounts: Bear Cart

    Pulled by a bear.
    Same as player walking speed.
    Holds maybe 500-100kg.
    If you die bear cart is left where it is (maybe the bear can wander a little).
    Using it costs meat for the bear (bear will follow you).
    limited to roads and maybe grass.

    OK to clear it up a little.

    1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
    2) What purpose do you need them for?.
    3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
    4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
    5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)

    My ideas for carts.

    There should be a few types of carts.

    *Animal pulled carts
    *Human pulled carts
    *Animal pulled with human rider* Later
    *Wagon types which would be used for transport of humans* Later

    Wagons should be faster than running, but not faster than sprinting.
    All other carts should be UP TO running speed but not faster. (Even if human pulled and sprinting).
    Wagons should be limited to types of terrain they can run over. Roads, grass, dirt, rock.
    Other carts should be best on Roads, but also able to go over anything other than water. Being there isnt a lot of options for bridges, right now they all should cross water until we can build bridges better.
    Carts should be based on ratio of weight to speed. Meaning more weight slower you go up til you point where you cant go anymore. There should be a wide range of how much it should hold and be at normal speed. Right now say we can carry 50kg without slowing us down. Animal carts should beable to pull 10x that, while human ones should only pull 5x that. If it has 2 animals pulling it, then it would be 1.5x per animal. Meaning 2 would be 1.5x, 3 would be 2x, 4 would be 2.5x.
    Animals should be based off a certain type. Meaning, say basic pulling animal = deer. So a deer would be 1x, while a bear would be 1.5x, a dog would be .5x. As more animals come into the game you can put a x to them.

    So if you have (1) deer pulling a cart, it would be 1x10x50kg. = 500kg, (2) deer would be 1.5x1x10x50kg = 750kg. (1) bear would be 1x1.5x10x50kg = 750kg, while (2) bears would be 1.5x1.5x10x50kg 1125kg.

    These numbers can be tweaked but you see how the math would work. You can have different types of carts limited by # of animals able to pull. Also fast carts vs big slow carts.
    So maybe fast carts max out at 500kg, while a large one would max out at 2000kg BUT a fast one can go = to running speed, while a large can only go up to 30% running speed max. Also put minimum base speeds. Like the range they care normally moved.
    So maybe a fast cart normally travels at 75% running speed under 50kg to 400kg weight. While a large one would normally go 40% while under 100kg to 1500kg.

    Carts should carry more items than a human basket.

    Of course if you die the cart should stay behind.
    Later would be nice if carts had locks on them.


    I dont want to see mounts until we get ranged attacking. Else there would never be any type of PVP.

  3. #13
    human pulled cart..a la rickshaw.

    moderate holding capacity before triggering additional encumberance.
    basically would function as a basket with wheels.
    use: transporting moderate amounts of materials (ie. 2-3x what would normally be required to trigger movement penalty) rapidly (ie. no movement penalty)
    not for: transportation of large bulk items (ie. large logs)
    crafted using wood working.

    Human pushed cart...

    High carry capacity with moderate encumberance penalty.
    table with wheels. pushed.
    because it is pushed using this would cause the char to incur a moderate movt penalty (ie. 40% encumbered).
    allows 8-10x normal inventory space...including large items (like logs)
    use: transporting large quantities of bulk materials. Incurs movement penalty but does not incur stamina penalty.

  4. #14
    1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
    2) What purpose do you need them for?.
    3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
    4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
    5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)

    1. mounts = faster travel carts = large carrying capacity
    2. mount - to get from a to b much faster cart - to gather large amounts of resourses
    3. one for each
    4. fast mounts with a little extra capacity are my first priority
    5. fast mounts

  5. #15
    Xsyon Citizen VeryWiiTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyI View Post
    Why not a phased feature set targetting the common aspects of both in 1-2 weeks and then additional features every 1-2 weeks thereafter until we have both?

    Initial energy use to start pulling it will be high but then reduced as inertia and momentum reduce the energy use. Could be as simple as a cargo variant of the hand taxi's you see in Asia. Beneficial effects of fulcrums etc. for reducing effort, friction, weight etc. Physics. Should take more energy downhill on steep inclines due to preventing it from rolling away and more uphill but much less on flat land and roads and much less on roads than flat land as no bumps etc.

    Ideally therefore you would need to take a break after pulling it up a steep incline before you then get moving again so you'd have to plan your route. It would also prevent the over use of carts as they would be most practical between tribe settlements that have connecting roads. Basically people have to think about their use.

    The cart should be as detailed a crafting experience as possible, broken up into lots of recipes so it can be extended into a rich crafting experience as more and more varieties of wheels etc. are added.
    i.e. Wheels would be spokes, hub, rim, rim plate (metal strip that prevents the wheel rim wearing out quickly)
    Body, axels etc.
    Better types and materials would add to weight allowance and durability but start with a basic set that can be extended. Then adding mounts and more advanced features later on will be easier.
    Mounts would be much easier to add I believe. It would just require animal training (which should be in the works). Animals already possess much of the features requested (their own inventory etc.) as far as I understood when I asked which would be the easiest to implement fast :P.

    Added after 6 minutes:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    My ideas for carts.

    There should be a few types of carts.

    *Animal pulled carts
    *Human pulled carts
    *Animal pulled with human rider* Later
    *Wagon types which would be used for transport of humans* Later

    Wagons should be faster than running, but not faster than sprinting.
    All other carts should be UP TO running speed but not faster. (Even if human pulled and sprinting).
    Wagons should be limited to types of terrain they can run over. Roads, grass, dirt, rock.
    Other carts should be best on Roads, but also able to go over anything other than water. Being there isnt a lot of options for bridges, right now they all should cross water until we can build bridges better.
    Carts should be based on ratio of weight to speed. Meaning more weight slower you go up til you point where you cant go anymore. There should be a wide range of how much it should hold and be at normal speed. Right now say we can carry 50kg without slowing us down. Animal carts should beable to pull 10x that, while human ones should only pull 5x that. If it has 2 animals pulling it, then it would be 1.5x per animal. Meaning 2 would be 1.5x, 3 would be 2x, 4 would be 2.5x.
    Animals should be based off a certain type. Meaning, say basic pulling animal = deer. So a deer would be 1x, while a bear would be 1.5x, a dog would be .5x. As more animals come into the game you can put a x to them.

    So if you have (1) deer pulling a cart, it would be 1x10x50kg. = 500kg, (2) deer would be 1.5x1x10x50kg = 750kg. (1) bear would be 1x1.5x10x50kg = 750kg, while (2) bears would be 1.5x1.5x10x50kg 1125kg.

    These numbers can be tweaked but you see how the math would work. You can have different types of carts limited by # of animals able to pull. Also fast carts vs big slow carts.
    So maybe fast carts max out at 500kg, while a large one would max out at 2000kg BUT a fast one can go = to running speed, while a large can only go up to 30% running speed max. Also put minimum base speeds. Like the range they care normally moved.
    So maybe a fast cart normally travels at 75% running speed under 50kg to 400kg weight. While a large one would normally go 40% while under 100kg to 1500kg.

    Carts should carry more items than a human basket.

    Of course if you die the cart should stay behind.
    Later would be nice if carts had locks on them.


    I dont want to see mounts until we get ranged attacking. Else there would never be any type of PVP.
    The ranged might be a bit of a long shot, but I gotta agree ..

    I really get the idea and agree with it. T'is basicly what I imagined, just more.. Complex described. Except two animals don't pull the weight of 1½ animal, but twice the pulling no (1 horse = 1 horse power, 2 horses = 2 horse powers.) Meaning two horses can carry twice the amount of goods at the same speed of 1 horse (actually I have no clue, but quite shure this was how it got explained to me when I was a kid and still curious about the world :P) That is just if you want a realism factor in it.
    2 Bears could pull double of what 1 bear would be able to do (think OX :P it helps..)

  6. #16
    You want something realistic that can be put in in 1-2 weeks:

    Wheel Barrow
    1) need to modeled
    2) need recipe (and new wheel recipe(s) that can be used later for other things) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials
    3) Capacity = same as storage bin (Note: resources CAN be stacked in wheel barrow - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, NO logs cut long, NO branches)
    4) Fully Loaded Movement - same as running with minimal/no stamina drain (terrain should SERIOUSLY affect speed)
    5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
    6) Wheel Barrow contents should be full loot at player death (wheelbarrow could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
    7) Can float across water with above average movement/stamina penalties to player using it.

    Push Cart
    1) need to modeled
    2) need recipe(s) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials
    3) Capacity = same as 4 storage bins (Note: resources CAN be stacked in cart - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, (some number of) logs cut long, (some number of) branches)
    4) Fully Loaded Movement - same as walking with minimal/no stamina drain (terrain should SERIOUSLY affect speed) - 2 people could use at same time for 1.5x speed bonus (1st person controls until 2nd person stops using or 1st stops using transferring use to the 2nd person)
    5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
    6) Cart contents should be full loot at player death (cart/sled could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
    7) Can float across water with above average movement/stamina penalties to player(s) that are using it.

    Pull Sled
    1) need to modeled
    2) need recipe(s) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials
    3) Capacity = same as 2 storage bins (Note: resources CAN be stacked in sled - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, (some number of) logs cut long, (some number of) branches)
    4) Movement - normal 40% encumbered player movement with normal stamina drain (terrain affects speeds normally)
    5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
    6) Sled contents should be full loot at player death (sled could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
    7) Cannot float across water (but can be carried across by player (in backpack space) while empty.

    Boats
    1) need to modeled
    2) need recipe(s) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials - there are tons of "boat" options that can be added later (bigger, more capacity, faster, multiple players using, etc...)
    3) Capacity = same as 6 storage bins (Note: resources CAN be stacked in sled - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, (some number of) logs cut long, (some number of) branches)
    4) Movement - running speed with no stamina loss
    5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
    6) Boat contents should be full loot at player death (boat could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
    7) Can only be used on water, but can be carried across land (same coding as long logs) by player while empty.

    Having listed these with the death penalty comment, I am loath to see these items get stolen, but am a big fan of realism. What to do, what to do...

    I think the hardest part of incorporating all 4 in the next 2 weeks would be the modelling & animation.

    Each item has it's advantages & disadvantages.

    Added after 7 minutes:

    ALSO...

    I would like to see mounts, but I would like to see mounts done correctly (not possible in 2 weeks).

    I do not want to see people riding bears, deer, cyotes, moose, wombats, etc... That's just not realistic.

    Horses, donkeys, cows, oxen - domestic creatures found around Lake Tahoe.

    I'll wait until the developers say "We have mounts modeled, coded, animated & ready to go in game in 2 weeks. Do you have any suggestions on using mounts/beasts of burden?" before I post my 2 cents on that.

  7. #17
    Nice post stonedogg1 (Dave).

    I would love to see this.

  8. #18
    Xsyon Citizen VeryWiiTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonedogg1 View Post
    I would like to see mounts, but I would like to see mounts done correctly (not possible in 2 weeks).

    I do not want to see people riding bears, deer, cyotes, moose, wombats, etc... That's just not realistic.

    Horses, donkeys, cows, oxen - domestic creatures found around Lake Tahoe.

    I'll wait until the developers say "We have mounts modeled, coded, animated & ready to go in game in 2 weeks. Do you have any suggestions on using mounts/beasts of burden?" before I post my 2 cents on that.
    Why can't we ride bears, mule deers and native animals already in-game. They are coded already as models, you would have to do new animations and perhaps some recoding and mount coding, but that should be about it?

    I mean, in Asia you rode Elephants.. In desert countries and north Africa you used Camels. In the Andes you used Llamas. It's mostly the European countries that has used Horses extensively (and north American Indians - to some extent).
    - I don't see the problem in riding a Mule Deer, at all, a bear might be more tricky realism wise, but if you think of it as an aggressive animal, you're quite wrong. They're quite peaceful if you leave them to themselves and they're not with cubs.
    Of course you don't ride a Coyote or Raccoon, they simply don't have the body mass for your weight.
    They'd be squeezed kittens..

  9. #19
    I'd have to agree that rather than seeing a rushed job to push it out in 1 or 2 weeks with what is available... I'd rather it take the time that it takes to do it right.

    Bears as mounts doesn't feel right to me.
    I think some Scandinavian cultures really did use reindeer as rides... but I dunno, I'd very much like to see horses.

    I can see what Larsa is saying about the ruggedness of the terrain, but there are solutions. No thoroughbreds... broken leg before you get out of your tribe land, BUT!

    Icelandic horses. Great for these conditions. Very very strong for their size (rode some in Vermont), and the small size makes them great for rugged environments with unstable footing.

    Morgan Horses. Bred especially for the rugged areas of Vermont. May not compare in scale to Tahoe, never been to Tahoe, but those horses do well for themselves in the Vermont mountains. Would still prefer an Icelandic horse though in that kind of terrain.

    I had kind of been thinking that in the very long term, it would be nice to have different horse breeds so traders can differentiate themselves. A trusty all-around quarter horse... a Belgian to pull goods... an Oldenburg to rule the battlefield.

    That's probably going too far though Quarter horses would likely be most accurate to the wild horses in the areas... Icelandic horses would get my vote.

    I'd also like the ability (someday) of pulling one horse while riding another. Good for when we have to go retrieve a mount, and as pack horse.

    Not too much more to add to the things that have already been said. Some great ideas here.

  10. #20
    Carts and other forms of transportation should be implemented for both trade and travel. I like the ideas people are coming up with so far.

    Instead of limiting the cart/vehicle usage, why not boost the speed of movement if on roads (natural or player-made)...so carts are 60% everywhere except roads..where they're 90%.
    (This provides not only the necessary transportation options, but many opportunities for player interaction - bandits, mercenaries, guards, etc...and organized caravans).

    Wheel barrows or small player-powered carts should be able to transport 3x player limit...and/or a solid stack of small logs...

    Large carts can be customized for certain things...some move faster (pack mules/bears/horses) but carry less...some slower (wagons, etc) but carry much more...

    I would DEFINITELY choose some form of cart/vehicle over mounts at this point....travel is fast enough on foot at the moment...unless you're trying to carry stuff..

    Thanks!

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