Will the carebears ruin xsyon...

[Andar]

The proper place for bullies (griefers) outside of the shoolyard is the boardroom of a major corporation.

Only failures in that competition turn to MMOs for consolation.

[NexAnima]

[QUOTE=Andar;56572]The proper place for bullies (griefers) outside of the shoolyard is the boardroom of a major corporation.

Only failures in that competition turn to MMOs for consolation.[/QUOTE]

Fun fact #213418003
[B]
Characteristics of bullies and bully accomplices[/B]

Research indicates that adults who bully have personalities that are authoritarian, combined with a strong need to control or dominate. It has also been suggested that a prejudicial view of subordinates can be particular a risk factor.

Further studies have shown that envy and resentment may be motives for bullying. Research on the self-esteem of bullies has produced equivocal results.While some bullies are arrogant and narcissistic, others can use bullying as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser him/herself feels empowered.

Researchers have identified other risk factors such as depression and personality disorders, as well as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions. A combination of these factors may also be cause of this behavior.

It is often suggested that bullying behavior has its origin in childhood. As a person who is inclined to act as a bully matures, his or her related behavior patterns will often also mature. Schoolyard pranks and 'rough-housing' may mature into more subtle, yet equally effective adult level activities such as administrative end-runs, well planned and orchestrated attempts at character assassination, or other less obvious, yet equally forceful forms of coercion.

"If aggressive behaviour is not challenged in childhood, there is a danger that it may become habitual. Indeed, there is research evidence, to indicate that bullying during childhood puts children at risk of criminal behaviour and domestic violence in adulthood."

Bullies may bully because they themselves have been the victim of bullying. There is also evidence that bullies have a much higher likelihood to be incarcerated in the future.

[Salvadore]

[QUOTE=Marcus;56093]I think people give way to much credit to forums for the way the game direction heads. Not to say it isn't part of it mind you.

Most of them (forums) are just filled with mis-information and/or ignorance, and people just trying to troll for the purpose of "forum PvP". According to most message boards (as an example), Trammel killed UO, whereas, the subs actually went up after it. Perhaps it killed it for "you"... but these games arent in business for "you", sorry to say.. That game changed because of bleeding subs moreso than forum whinning in my opinion.

I'm not going to pretend i know exactly what you personaly want from this game, but in my opinion, (as you said) the same 5-10 people go to any "carebear" thread and scream how the want to "pwn" the carbaerz, and how they can't wait to grief them, and all the rest... So maybe we call this one a wash?

Someone actually brought up in another thread about burning down peoples home, and your response was something along the lines... "I hope so, because tears would flowwwww"

See, the problem with that is, when tears flow, so do sub numbers, and i would think, that, would have a much bigger effect on the direction of a game, moreso than the 5-10 members of a message board crying out in shear fear of PvP. Please dont get me wrong, i love PvP, but there really needs to be some sort of happy medium, so both sides can co-exist, and as we have seen many times, its just really not that easy. I'm not saying destroying towns is a bad thing, or, i oppose it completely, i'm just wondering and hoping it can be done without much flowing....

P.S. This was my first avatar in an MMO, i take it wherever i go [/QUOTE]

So then we can agree that the vast majority of MMO's are "profit driven"? Thus, whenever someone gets mad and quits, and asked why by the games exit survey, and say "so and so killed me, i lost this/that, and i didnt like this" - Leads to a forcefull change in the whole management of the MMO? That's the cycle I've constantly seen with just about ALL mmo's ive played. Of course they aren't in business for JUST ME, but normally the change is derived from the guy that quit and filled the exit survey out rather than the guy that caused it and DIDNT quit and is still in the game enjoying it!

Basically, they've already got the "cause" guy hooked, and assume he is staying. They cater to the "effect" guy that quit, and make changes to keep that type all without considering the change pissing off the first guy and HIM quitting ;]

I do hope it evolves into full out asset destruction and no safe zones. NOT just because tears will flowwww, but because it will FORCE game balance and ALL PLAYER interaction. That would be awesome in my eyes, rather than one side (either) being thoroughly catered to just to appease them.

People won't work together just for the fun of it...they have to be forced to via risk/reward. When you have something to lose, you are way less likely to be a "ganker" type and be much more likely to be a social type. I hate gankers as well, and see it as a complete game destroyer. Lets go as far as to say i loathe ganking. Forced cooperation between carebear/pvper has so much potential to make this game GREAT.

[Jadzia]

[QUOTE=Salvadore;56618]So then we can agree that the vast majority of MMO's are "profit driven"? Thus, whenever someone gets mad and quits, and asked why by the games exit survey, and say "so and so killed me, i lost this/that, and i didnt like this" - Leads to a forcefull change in the whole management of the MMO? That's the cycle I've constantly seen with just about ALL mmo's ive played. Of course they aren't in business for JUST ME, but normally the change is derived from the guy that quit and filled the exit survey out rather than the guy that caused it and DIDNT quit and is still in the game enjoying it!

Basically, they've already got the "cause" guy hooked, and assume he is staying. They cater to the "effect" guy that quit, and make changes to keep that type all without considering the change pissing off the first guy and HIM quitting ;]
[/QUOTE]

If a company was losing like 80% of their customers due to the 20% of the players who were staying I would understand if they considered to change the rules and piss the 20% in order to keep the 80%. Its their living anyway.

If it was like 50%-50% or something close to that, even 30-70, then starting 2 different servers would solve the problem. Everyone gets what they like so everyone stays.

[Marcus]

[QUOTE=Salvadore;56618]So then we can agree that the vast majority of MMO's are "profit driven"? Thus, whenever someone gets mad and quits, and asked why by the games exit survey, and say "so and so killed me, i lost this/that, and i didnt like this" - Leads to a forcefull change in the whole management of the MMO? That's the cycle I've constantly seen with just about ALL mmo's ive played. Of course they aren't in business for JUST ME, but normally the change is derived from the guy that quit and filled the exit survey out rather than the guy that caused it and DIDNT quit and is still in the game enjoying it!

Basically, they've already got the "cause" guy hooked, and assume he is staying. They cater to the "effect" guy that quit, and make changes to keep that type all without considering the change pissing off the first guy and HIM quitting ;]

I do hope it evolves into full out asset destruction and no safe zones. NOT just because tears will flowwww, but because it will FORCE game balance and ALL PLAYER interaction. That would be awesome in my eyes, rather than one side (either) being thoroughly catered to just to appease them.

People won't work together just for the fun of it...they have to be forced to via risk/reward. When you have something to lose, you are way less likely to be a "ganker" type and be much more likely to be a social type. I hate gankers as well, and see it as a complete game destroyer. Lets go as far as to say i loathe ganking. Forced cooperation between carebear/pvper has so much potential to make this game GREAT.[/QUOTE]

As Jadzia said, yes, if your subs are "bleeding", and the effect guys are starting to outnumber your cause guys, then you might want to look into the details of your strategy. Anything else would be foolish, as we agree, these things are profit driven. By the same token, if your taking a very small percent of your exit surveys, and making large changes from that, well, thats just as foolish...

I also agree with your last comment, and I think i have said it here more times than i can remember, I hope these guys can find a balance between the "carebears/pvpers". It would make a truely fantastic game.

[Andar]

[QUOTE=Jadzia;56636]If a company was losing like 80% of their customers due to the 20% of the players who were staying I would understand if they considered to change the rules and piss the 20% in order to keep the 80%. Its their living anyway.

If it was like 50%-50% or something close to that, even 30-70, then starting 2 different servers would solve the problem. Everyone gets what they like so everyone stays.[/QUOTE]

For example: in the most recent poll I saw roughly 75% want safe zones. I suppose the question of PvE/PvP balance is at least partly answered for now.

[boomer0901]

[QUOTE=NexAnima;56590]Fun fact #213418003
[B]
Characteristics of bullies and bully accomplices[/B]

Research indicates that adults who bully have personalities that are authoritarian, combined with a strong need to control or dominate. It has also been suggested that a prejudicial view of subordinates can be particular a risk factor.

Further studies have shown that envy and resentment may be motives for bullying. Research on the self-esteem of bullies has produced equivocal results.While some bullies are arrogant and narcissistic, others can use bullying as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser him/herself feels empowered.

Researchers have identified other risk factors such as depression and personality disorders, as well as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions. A combination of these factors may also be cause of this behavior.

It is often suggested that bullying behavior has its origin in childhood. As a person who is inclined to act as a bully matures, his or her related behavior patterns will often also mature. Schoolyard pranks and 'rough-housing' may mature into more subtle, yet equally effective adult level activities such as administrative end-runs, well planned and orchestrated attempts at character assassination, or other less obvious, yet equally forceful forms of coercion.

"If aggressive behaviour is not challenged in childhood, there is a danger that it may become habitual. Indeed, there is research evidence, to indicate that bullying during childhood puts children at risk of criminal behaviour and domestic violence in adulthood."

Bullies may bully because they themselves have been the victim of bullying. There is also evidence that bullies have a much higher likelihood to be incarcerated in the future.[/QUOTE]

Kind of sums up the word troll doesn't it, yeah thats one reason I don't sweat the trolls griefers all that much, in real life they are a bunch of cowards.

I'm suprised more case studies haven't been done on this kind of behavior directly relating to video games and abusive behavior. I would love to do a case study on this, but getting one of the d-bag/troll/griefer to sit still long enough without their ADD meds not kicking in or the hardest part fitting their ego on a piece of paper.

[Monfols]

Why is this not in the flame wars place?
This only makes people want to flame even more...

[r4NGe]

[QUOTE=Marcus;56654]As Jadzia said, yes, if your subs are "bleeding", and the effect guys are starting to outnumber your cause guys, then you might want to look into the details of your strategy. Anything else would be foolish, as we agree, these things are profit driven. By the same token, if your taking a very small percent of your exit surveys, and making large changes from that, well, thats just as foolish...

I also agree with your last comment, and I think i have said it here more times than i can remember, I hope these guys can find a balance between the "carebears/pvpers". It would make a truely fantastic game.[/QUOTE]


They should make all games based only on profit. Also, when I scavenge I want to hear a casino dingaling noise. OOOH, those get my blood pumpin!

[Salvadore]

[QUOTE=Andar;56688]For example: in the most recent poll I saw roughly 75% want safe zones. I suppose the question of PvE/PvP balance is at least partly answered for now.[/QUOTE]

If that is actually the case, then so be it.

However, I'm waiting to see the threads start popping up everywhere about people exploiting safezones, lag caused by afk'ers sitting dormant macroing, and rarely finding anyone in game that is not crafting or in the process of aquiring resources for crafting. Another thread has all the info about it, cant remember which one. It does almost sound like people are acting in their own personal interests to get started in game rather than thinking "down the road" after everyone is established.