Destroying Resources a Legitimate Tactic?

[Vicid]

I don't want to hold Hefe accountable for his actions. I want Hefe to hold himself accountable. He admits that the act is deplorable, and yet he did it anyway. For fun. I'm afraid I must go against his advisement and compare this to teenagers knocking over mailboxes. Indeed, it is disturbing, Sirius. Quite so. The point is that you're above this kind of behavior. If I found myself a part of a guild that endorsed or defended it, I would seriously reconsider my decision to be a member. Don't let a group think for you.

I also don't want my message to be misconstrued. I'm not saying that players shouldn't be able to do things like this. I am saying that, if they're mature and rational individuals, they shouldn't do things like this. I'm personally having trouble comprehending what type of person could dedicate hours of their time to chopping down another tribe's trees just to spite them. It's lunacy.

It is fun and this is a game. The devs put tree cutting and log/stump destruction in the game. It isn't the same as say, spamming chat with racial slurs. Obviously players are expected not to do that and it is against the ToS. Cutting down a tree isn't.

[madea]

Rather than implementing features in an attempt to limit player freedom, give more options to the players.

Agriculture, however and whenever its implemented, should be capable of replanting trees ( which seems to be the main issue ). Agriculture isn't just wheat or what have you, after all. It's only natural that it should deal with the tree issue, as well. Granted this might not be implemented for some time, but no one was realistically looking for some hot-fix over night, were they?

While that "don't limit, give more" phrase a nice, catchy phrase to bandy about, it's not the magic wand solution you seem to think it is?

Unless replanting the trees and cutting them down for harvest takes exactly the same amount of time and mouseclicks to cut them down, delete them and all delete the stumps, all you're doing is making more work for the wrong people. In other words, you're not really suggesting freedom, you're suggesting a punishment (because actually harvesting resources is work, not fun) for the players who didn't do anything.

If reforesting is possible but difficult while destroying the things remains the same, it can't even be used as a countertactic; if I surrounded an enemy tribe with lots of trees, it's so easy to cut them down it's not even a minor inconvenience.

Without any meaningful form of retaliation, there is - further - literally no incentive not to do it. Even if we tried to PvP a resolution, there's nothing effective that can be done to discourage further attempts; the damage is done and we can't watch those trees 24 hours. If it's easy and there are no consequences, players will do it. This kind of tactic should require planning and calculated risk of vulnerability, making it a purposeful action meant to actively engage other tribes. It might be a dick move, but it's a dick move you can tactically admire.

Right now it's something to do because you're bored and it's funny, which encourages psychopathic behavior. How is that going to sustain the game world?

[santoclawz]

I think in its current state its fine, the game world is huge and while the population is decent at the moment the world is by no means full, people need to spread out more where i am currently living i have access to tons of trees some junk and stone, no sand but i can deal with that, also from where i live i can see into a basin with huge amounts of junk and alot of people living right ontop of the stuff, and not a tree to be seen in the basin. So far none of my trees have been touched and i doubt they will be because i dont live elbow to elbow with everyone even though that seems to be the thing to do.

[Hefe18]

I don't plan on doing it much more, I really don't get that much jollies from it. I'm just doing it a little now because I can and I can't properly PK those out in the world because of the state the game is in.

Thought I'd stir the pot a little bit tho.

With the current state of the game two people can just go out chop trees far away since I chopped all yours down, load up your buddy with wood crafted things, kill him to send him back to town!

This could become tedious if you need long wood sheets but maybe you'll just craft stone things or metal anyway.

/Paul Bunyan signing out

[crakhed]

Think to consider the possibility that someone just needed a lot of wood?
This may be the dumbest post Ive seen to date, and I sure hope the dev's dont cater to ppl who had their view altered.

[mrcalhou]

I don't want to hold Hefe accountable for his actions. I want Hefe to hold himself accountable. He admits that the act is deplorable, and yet he did it anyway. For fun. I'm afraid I must go against his advisement and compare this to teenagers knocking over mailboxes. Indeed, it is disturbing, Sirius. Quite so. The point is that you're above this kind of behavior. If I found myself a part of a guild that endorsed or defended it, I would seriously reconsider my decision to be a member. Don't let a group think for you.

I also don't want my message to be misconstrued. I'm not saying that players shouldn't be able to do things like this. I am saying that, if they're mature and rational individuals, they shouldn't do things like this. I'm personally having trouble comprehending what type of person could dedicate hours of their time to chopping down another tribe's trees just to spite them. It's lunacy.

I think you need to come down from that pedestal.

[AndyI]

I had one idiot decide that to taunt me into coming out of my camp to fight, he'd chop trees down onto my camp. The problem being that then you can't open your baskets to be able to get an axe out in order to chop up the tree to remove it. It's just pathetic. He didn't even ask me to come out and fight, first I knew anything there was a tree on top of me.

There are way too many idiots in this game for my liking. People talk about being PVP or Carebears but in reality, most don't have a problem with PVP if the idiots cannot grief and force you to play the way they want you to. And whenever an argument like this comes up, if you're not happy with the grieifing or the style of play then you're a Carebear which just gets old very quickly. I enjoy PVP too but I play the game in the spirit it's meant to be and not running around being an idiot and that's what most object to tbh. It is a simple fact that you cannot be online 24hrs a day so the argument about RL is a pointless one. If this was a RL apocalypse we'd all be behaving a lot differently. If PVP was in the spirit of the game, then nobody would ever post a thread up about this kind of nonsense. PVP vs Carebear is not the issue and never really has been.

Quite simply put, if PVP'ers would just target people out on the open world and not behave like mindless silly children then nobody would ever have any issues and the subject would never come up. The problem is that some of the PVP'ers are just idiots and there are no consequences in game for the immature muppets that are roaming some of the areas. Until game mechanics are such that griefing cannot be done with no consequences then I'll choose to vote with my feet and go and play something else. PVP games always go this way because of a handful of PVP'ers that think doing stupid nonsense is part of the game.

There's just no getting around the fact that these people are immature idiots. For the record I have no problem with PVP, I just wont waste my time for no reason when it is so easy for these people to try to force you to play a game the way they want it played like a little childs playground.

It was hardcore PVP'ers on IRC that were being rude and insulting about the Devs and the efforts to fix the lag and are always the ones that seem to insult first on these forums. I just don't need to spend my spare time with people that are incapable of growing up and see no harm in the stupid local chat smack talk or hurling abuse around. Sadly it seems these people will always be the ones dictating FFA game styles. gl to them, they can only do one thing, harm the game. By forcing the devs to act, they put off other features. Real Clever, NOT.

[Rougie]

Depriving one's enemy of resources is just as legitimate as killing one's enemy.

It doesn't make sense that one should be able to kill and loot one's enemy, but not be allowed to chop trees / deprive one's enemy of resources. Be consistent, or shut up.

[madea]

Depriving one's enemy of resources is just as legitimate as killing one's enemy.

It doesn't make sense that one should be able to kill and loot one's enemy, but not be allowed to chop trees / deprive one's enemy of resources. Be consistent, or shut up.

Setting aside the fact that "enemy" to PKers seems to mean "everyone other than me and my buddies", or the fact - which everyone seems to ignore - that victory is completely ephemeral in a gamespace, depriving an enemy of resources is not the complaint.

The complaint lies with the complete and utter ease of doing so compared to actually harvesting them, combined with the lack of any real, meaningful avenue of retaliation. If they destroy all our trees and we destroy all their trees, and people just go to other places, craft wooden items in place and kill each other to warp back to the totem... how does that lead to a viable, sustainable game world?

If the purpose is territory control, then the tools to allow effective control in place are necessary. It's mostly a balance issue; death is a pretty effective equalizer in the long run, and in the game that factor has been placed to "infinity". You can't just leave it like that and expect things to work on any sort of long-term basis.

[AndyI]

Madea, you're quite right however I don't think they really understand the difference. The lunatics are running the asylum because there's no means to prevent it. It'll just become yet another game with lots of pk'ers running around griefing the hell out of people because it's 'fun' for them regardless of what it means in terms of balance. I enjoy PVP but not idiocy and griefing. Until mechanics are in place to balance this out, it's just an idiots playground.