Macro Philosophy

[Saolite]

There was an interesting thread just removed from the forum after being up for just about 5 mins. It was a screenshot of a convo between a player and guide. The player reported a guy for macro ing scav. Unfortunately although the poster anonymised the macroers name he left the guides in.

This should be ok though as im mentioning no names. Basically the guide acknowledged the incident was happening and came for a look. He then said "he knew the guy" and would not report him this time. He did teleport him away from the scrap pile though. Now, imo thats not good enough. Especially if your reason for not taking action is having some kind of links with the "offender".

Not setting a good example as far as preventing a macro fest imo

Yeah, I saw it for the brief few minutes it was up. My jaw was hanging a little. I sat there trying to think of what to post that wouldn't get me banned from the forums. Macroing is a big, big issue. Especially in games where it can give you a ridiculous advantage over another player.

This is one of those things that everyone whose caught doing it, just needs to be banned ( after prooven ).

[Dontaze_Mebro]

PM me the Guides name so I can get on his good side as well. I want to be able to cheat.

[sudo]

Yeah, I saw it for the brief few minutes it was up. My jaw was hanging a little. I sat there trying to think of what to post that wouldn't get me banned from the forums.

Thas was my post and even though it got deleted VERY fast and I even got a warning from the GM who deleted it, saying that I will probably get a perma-ban next time, he later told me over IRC that I'm not even allowed to discuss this issue even without mentioning the Guides name...
Let me remind you, though, that Xsyon forums aren't the only mmorpg forums on the internet and I couldn't let such a pretty picture stay uploaded on imageshack with no use...

And bruisie159, thank you for the support.

[Jadzia]

Thas was my post and even though it got deleted VERY fast and I even got a warning from the GM who deleted it, saying that I will probably get a perma-ban next time, he later told me over IRC that I'm not even allowed to discuss this issue even without mentioning the Guides name...
Let me remind you, though, that Xsyon forums aren't the only mmorpg forums on the internet and I couldn't let such a pretty picture stay uploaded on imageshack with no use...

And bruisie159, thank you for the support.

Well done, sudo, the forum rules shouldn't protect cheaters. Already found that pretty picture :P

Respect to the player who reported the macroer though he was his tribemate. Thats the spirit we all need.

[Surly]

LMAO, too true, but grinding of the gold kind. But there is a game that bred boredom and disappointment, I would hate to see the same happen here. Keep the grind, its not over the top in this game.

I could give a shit if others macro, as long as game mechanics allow personal ability to come into the equation, well, when speaking about combat anyway. With twitch based systems its not all about skill levels, its about personal skill and ability also. If you suck at twitch combat, you suck regardless of how high you macro'd your skills. If you suck that bad that you feel the need to macro your skills, well, poor you. As for crafting, eh, whats the hurry? We'll all have them maxed out sooner or later.

I don't like the idea of giving people "busy work" to keep them "interested." I see where you're coming from, but the game's features should be enough to keep people entertained without grind. That's an eventuality, though, not the present state of the game... so getting rid of the grind isn't that big of a deal to me currently. I'd like to see it phased out as more stuff is enabled, though.

If this game ever gets to a "feature complete" point, it won't need an ounce of grind.

[HyBrasil]

I have only seen 1 game server really enforce rules like macro'ing, botting, radar, and other exploits and 3rd party program shortcuts effectively, and it is an unofficial Freeshard for a game that operates on donations. Frankly, it is the best server for a game I have ever played on. It is run by people who love the game, not people punching a time clock.

Maybe the business model for MMORPGS should go to a donation based system. I guarantee that the server admins would run things a bit tighter to reduce costs. Big corporate games always have macroers, botters, "goldfarmers", and other such behavior in general running rampant throughout them. I hope Xsyon will not be one of them.

[ColonelTEE3]

Well, it seems that "dead wrong" would be a bit strong, considering you are actually supporting my argument. Now just to clear things up for you, because your smugness is quite apparent. I have also read many 101 books, but i keep proceeding beyond the novice work. In fact, I also add my own work and reasoning to whatever I learn. I will not quote someone else, and act as if it was my idea. Then, proceed to act as if I have won. This is one of the problems of education, to much inside the book, not enough outside. This however is off topic.

On topic: I thought about it last night. Here is a question for any macroer. If an "I Win" button was added to a game, and when you pressed it, you recieved every item, every skill maxed, as many PVP wins as you wanted, zero losses, every craft skill maxed, every meta-game topped, etc. would you press it?

I never supported your argument. I invalidated it.

This is your original argument i was replying to:

The problem with saying that bad programming or development choices is the reason why people macro, is like saying the reason people steal or commit a crime, is because of bad security, or poorly designed store isles, etc. The point being, it doesn't matter how much you try to prevent something, someone will find a way around the normal route.

You are saying here that there is a false analogy being made; that the game was made in such a way that it has caused people to macro is like saying (I have to assume you meant economically based) crime is the result of the failure to stop it or hinder it with better isles and better security. Therefore, you claim, crime/macroing will always occur because "someone will find a way around the normal route".

I never in my post supported this argument. I feel like a broken record because i have to keep restating this and you can't just read it again: economic crimes such as property crimes, arson, or theft are occurring because (irl) people have been put into circumstances where they can't access the wide-spread accepted goals of a culture (monetary wealth irl) because there simply is a lack of opportunities to them. This is best illustrated by the inner-city urban poor districts; the only jobs available that will ultimately lead to the acquiring of these cultural goals (wealth) are office jobs and professions that are demanding of high technical skill. The impoverished families that live there, however, lack the education and resources to be able to fulfill these jobs. For them, their options are either a low-skill job like Mcdonalds that will pay hardly anything, or crimes like selling drugs or burglary, which can be extremely lucrative.

Likewise, people who don't have the time to commit to a game like some others, due to responsibilities as a parent, or a spouse, or as someone employed 40-50 hours a week, or in the middle of schooling, still want to be competitive because that is a very highly sought after cultural goal in the gaming community, especially the pvp community. They can either play maybe an hour or two a day, infrequently throughout the week, and fall behind. Or they can respond to a game system that rewards people with a lot of time to spend on skilling up, and macro to catch up and remain competitive.

Also, i know you must be intimidated by anyone with more than a high school diploma, so i'm not surprised i come off as smug just for bringing some solid arguments in for discussion. I've never said Merton's theory was my own -- i did however adapt it and compare it to the game in light of the thread topic. If you don't see the difference then maybe you should just stop before you embarrass yourself some more. You talk a lot about all the reading, and all the work and reasoning you do. I've reasoned through what i've learned and applied it here with my own thoughts on some research i've read. I haven't seen you do anything here except claim "yeah well im better but im not going to say how or why."

Your "on topic" idea doesn't fit here. Its really sad that there is such a big misconception that all macroers want is for scripts to play and win the game for them.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Thas was my post and even though it got deleted VERY fast and I even got a warning from the GM who deleted it, saying that I will probably get a perma-ban next time, he later told me over IRC that I'm not even allowed to discuss this issue even without mentioning the Guides name...
Let me remind you, though, that Xsyon forums aren't the only mmorpg forums on the internet and I couldn't let such a pretty picture stay uploaded on imageshack with no use...

And bruisie159, thank you for the support.

Well if that's how they are running things maybe I shouldn't even bother to wait until the free time is up. If they are going to do things like this I am NOT going be playing, and I will do my best to make sure people know about this sort of stuff. Corrupt GM's are the quickest way to lose my business. PM that screenshot if you don't mind.

[Jadzia]

Well if that's how they are running things maybe I shouldn't even bother to wait until the free time is up. If they are going to do things like this I am NOT going be playing, and I will do my best to make sure people know about this sort of stuff. Corrupt GM's are the quickest way to lose my business. PM that screenshot if you don't mind.

Check it on mmorpg.com. And I agree with you, if that is the policy about macroers why should we play at all ?

[sudo]

Big corporate games always have macroers, botters, "goldfarmers", and other such behavior in general running rampant throughout them. I hope Xsyon will not be one of them.

So do I, HyBrasil. While big companies do have goldfarmers and botters, the biggest of those companies usually manage to fight those quite well. I haven't played wow or lotro for quite some time but when I did, I've only seen goldsellers and all they do is spam, they don't go into battlegrounds with macroed maxed stats that would take a non-cheating player a whole year to get.

My solution is to change all the game mechanics that are macro-friendly to non-macro friendly ones. Take any major mmorpg fishing and compare it to Xsyons, for example...