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  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenchfoot View Post
    The same can be said for everything (or should be). Safety is what pvprs provide. On the inverse I could also say that if there aren't enough players to be non-pvp dedicated crafters, pvp would be too much of a chore and they would leave.

    My point is that pvprs should be a link in the chain of things everyone needs just like every other skill set. Basketeers provide baskets, weapon crafters provide weapons, farmers provide foodstuffs, tailors provide clothes, etc. And pvprs provide combat/safety. Non-pvp should need what pvp provides, just as much as pvp should need what non-pvp provides. It should be like every other desired service/goods.

    I agree with this 100%.

    Broken game isnt good for anyone.

    Also like you said the chain is more than just 1 or 2 links.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    Pop was low on DFO not because of the PVP system, because of the grind bugs and macroing/expoiting.
    Thats what you say, and you may be partially right. But I know a lot of players (myself included) who hasn't even tried the game because of its PvP system. It has low PvP population because of bugs, and even lower non-PvP population because of the PvP system.

    Dont fix FFA PVP to low pop. Yes I agree its not the highest %, but you dont have data to show that. Name one AAA+ game that has FFA PVP full loot?
    There is a reason there is no AAA+ game with FFA PvP full loot. They wouldn't put so much money into a game which they know would only get a very niche playerbase.
    UO started with that. They changed it. RuneScape started with that. They changed it.
    Developers want players...and they don't come because the player policing system doesn't work, so they change it.

    Even the creator of Lineage 2 (which has FFA PvP, thought with safety in towns and no full loot) changed his system in his new game. Archeage will have 2 PvE continents and 1 PvP one. Experience shows that if you want a game flourish you need coded protection.

    My point is that pvprs should be a link in the chain of things everyone needs just like every other skill set. Basketeers provide baskets, weapon crafters provide weapons, farmers provide foodstuffs, tailors provide clothes, etc. And pvprs provide combat/safety. Non-pvp should need what pvp provides, just as much as pvp should need what non-pvp provides. It should be like every other desired service/goods.
    I agree with that. PvPers should provide protection time by time, just like crafters provide crafted good when its needed. Not all the time. There should be rare resource hubs and some trade routes where players need to go if they want fast travel or nice amount of rare stuffs. In those cases they should hire a PvPer to protect them. But not all the time, not in every moment of the game. It can't work.

  3. #73
    I agree with that. PvPers should provide protection time by time, just like crafters provide crafted good when its needed. Not all the time. There should be rare resource hubs and some trade routes where players need to go if they want fast travel or nice amount of rare stuffs. In those cases they should hire a PvPer to protect them. But not all the time, not in every moment of the game. It can't work.
    The better they are the less you'll need them.

    Also the FFA argument is a bad one. In a world of console games that by tradition are designed for you to win so that you get bored and go buy the next one, people have been trained to enjoy winning over genuine competition. Not to mention that FFA is generally an adult idea. Which tends to restrict its player base to a smaller age group as opposed to popular 'for all ages' titles. Just my opinion.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    Thats what you say, and you may be partially right. But I know a lot of players (myself included) who hasn't even tried the game because of its PvP system. It has low PvP population because of bugs, and even lower non-PvP population because of the PvP system.


    There is a reason there is no AAA+ game with FFA PvP full loot. They wouldn't put so much money into a game which they know would only get a very niche playerbase.
    UO started with that. They changed it. RuneScape started with that. They changed it.
    Developers want players...and they don't come because the player policing system doesn't work, so they change it.

    Even the creator of Lineage 2 (which has FFA PvP, thought with safety in towns and no full loot) changed his system in his new game. Archeage will have 2 PvE continents and 1 PvP one. Experience shows that if you want a game flourish you need coded protection.


    I agree with that. PvPers should provide protection time by time, just like crafters provide crafted good when its needed. Not all the time. There should be rare resource hubs and some trade routes where players need to go if they want fast travel or nice amount of rare stuffs. In those cases they should hire a PvPer to protect them. But not all the time, not in every moment of the game. It can't work.


    You say it cant work, yet you talk about how Archeage is doing it. Very odd. Using your own data, it shows you yourself are wrong.

    UO is still a FFA PVP full loot game.
    I dont know about Runescape and I would never call it AAA+.

    The reason no AAA+ does it, because of the balancing issue. Not because of the drive.
    Its so much easier to make a game like Rift and WOW than it is to make a game like Xsyon.
    Same can be said why no AAA+ game has yet to make a sandbox like Xsyon. Even if you throw PVP out the window where are the AAA+ games makers doing Sandboxes? You think its because of the lack of people wanting to play them? haha.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    You say it cant work, yet you talk about how Archeage is doing it. Very odd. Using your own data, it shows you yourself are wrong.
    Archeage is doing it ? Doing what ? It won't be an open world FFA full loot game. It will have safe zones and PvP zones, with coded protection.
    The reason no AAA+ does it, because of the balancing issue. Not because of the drive.
    Its so much easier to make a game like Rift and WOW than it is to make a game like Xsyon.
    Same can be said why no AAA+ game has yet to make a sandbox like Xsyon. Even if you throw PVP out the window where are the AAA+ games makers doing Sandboxes? You think its because of the lack of people wanting to play them? haha.
    This is again your opinion, not a fact, and my opinion is that you are wrong.

    And now there is an AAA+ game-maker making a sandbox. I wish him good luck.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    Archeage is doing it ? Doing what ? It won't be an open world FFA full loot game. It will have safe zones and PvP zones, with coded protection.

    This is again your opinion, not a fact, and my opinion is that you are wrong.

    And now there is an AAA+ game-maker making a sandbox. I wish him good luck.

    So its going to have Safe zones? Wow nice. Did you read how they were doing it? I did.
    They are going to have full loot, and it is going to be FFA. You should check it out. Its pretty cool ideas. (Multi servers)

    Making a game like Rift or WOW is easier than a sandbox game. Thats a fact, not an opinion.

    Blizzard already said it. You should read up on why they dont do a Sandbox game. They already said its not the drive its the balancing and other issues (FPS style combat is too hard for them).

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    So its going to have Safe zones? Wow nice. Did you read how they were doing it? I did.
    They are going to have full loot, and it is going to be FFA. You should check it out. Its pretty cool ideas. (Multi servers)

    Making a game like Rift or WOW is easier than a sandbox game. Thats a fact, not an opinion.

    Blizzard already said it. You should read up on why they dont do a Sandbox game. They already said its not the drive its the balancing and other issues (FPS style combat is too hard for them).
    Yes I read about it. It will have 2 safe continent, and 1 for open PvP. Very nice setup imo. They will start 2 or 3 different servers with different PvP setups. They haven't announced the looting system yet, it won't be full loot on the limited PvP servers for sure, perhaps on the unlimited PvP server, but there is no info on that yet.

    If it was the balancing issue which keeps AAA companies back from creating FFA PvP games then they wouldn't create any PvP, since its supposed to be balanced no matter if its FFA or not.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    If it was the balancing issue which keeps AAA companies back from creating FFA PvP games then they wouldn't create any PvP, since its supposed to be balanced no matter if its FFA or not.
    Balancing PVP is hard always. But people get more upset when all their hard work is destroyed or items are gone because they died to an imbalanced PVP system.
    If you lose nothing in PVP, then balance issues are a lot lesser of a concern.

    Read up on why Blizzard didnt do it.

    About that other MMO. They have said the looting system. You just might now know it.
    Anyways the point is not to talk about another game. The key is what can work, and what is likely to work.

    PVP full loot can work, it just needs its checks and balances. Good/Neut/Evil system Xsyon already laid out before is a good system. Just needs to be put in place, like so many other features.
    Xsyon is having a lack of pop due to missing features, bugs, crashing, etc. I dont think its because of a full loot PVP system. (Last line is my opinion first one is fact)

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    PVP full loot can work, it just needs its checks and balances. Good/Neut/Evil system Xsyon already laid out before is a good system. Just needs to be put in place, like so many other features.
    Xsyon is having a lack of pop due to missing features, bugs, crashing, etc. I dont think its because of a full loot PVP system. (Last line is my opinion first one is fact)
    PvP full loot can work, I said a world without any coded protection and with ONLY player policing can't work.

    No one said in this thread that Xsyon has low pop because of its PvP system. Actually no one talked about Xsyon's population but you

    Please link where AA devs talked about the looting system, I'm really interested it. In every fansite all I read was that it won't be full loot, even partial loot isn't confirmed.

    Edit: nvm the link, I found an interview. There won't be any looting, not even a partial one, no item drop on death.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    PvP full loot can work, I said a world without any coded protection and with ONLY player policing can't work.

    No one said in this thread that Xsyon has low pop because of its PvP system. Actually no one talked about Xsyon's population but you

    My opinion is that I dont want only players policing the server. I want a system with good and evil, with some safe areas for protections for newbs and other non pvp types.

    You inferred that PVP FFA is the reason why other games are low population and we are talking about this system applying to Xsyon. Thus you brought it up.
    Im stating opinion and facts on why they are not the reason why Xsyon and other FFA PVP games are low POP.

    I dont know any game at all ever that only has players policing the server. So Im not understanding your point on that either.

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