Whats going on with PvP? Is the main focus only to work on PvE?

[Static]

I ask this question since I'm being told that the animals running away from you issue has been solved on PvE while on PvP animals are completely broken. I have a few issues with PvP server and I'll outline them in letters here.

a)
Like mutants will even run from me with 1k+ hps that could 3 hit me, plateback bears, shadow bears, shadow deer, bluetip deer, coyotes of all kinds, why are they running from me on PvP but when I talk to people on PvE they say this "was" a issue but it was solved?

In fact, the server is broken at the moment since you can't even train your combat verse animals cuz "everything" runs.

b)
I'm pretty unimpressed that we don't have shields or ranged weapons or any meaningful update for PvP despite being promised this many years ago and being a feature all combat players have requested or wondered why isn't being put in the game or taken seriously. The fact that the skills got removed from the game instead of finished to make the game "seem more complete" is extremely heart braking.

Its not fun gameplay to run after a bluetip deer for half a hour trying to kill/run it down cuz they refuse to fight you.

If your going to have this kind of combat where the deer or animal runs for half a hour than I demand ranged weapons so we can hit them from range if we gotta run them down due to refused combat.


c)
I also understand that PvE and PvP split from a single server due to the guides advising jordi to do so due to the issues around PvE players complaining about PvP players and the issues around F2P players around that time.... However I'm not sure how this is a positive thing for PvP server since most people need to be specialized, this means you need to trade with people and there needs to be crafters on the same server as combat players, however what seems to be done here is you've seperated the crafters from the combat and due to that removed the synergy between the two and effectively broke the game to the point where your forced to buy multiple accounts of at least 2 in order to do everything yourself, INSTEAD OF trading with other players as intended and creating synergy between specialized people.

The idea I have to create a solution for this is to return F2P but ONLY to PvP server since its quite obvious that if it was added to PvE than guides would get overwhelmed again from complaints and it would turn into the same bad situation that caused the servers to split in the first place. Putting it on only PvP would help inject more life into the server and let people who are wondering about the game, the chance to try it without having to first take the risk of paying $32 for a game thats been in greenlight for 7 years (that is a huge risk no matter how you look at it, doubly so when you look at the price being much higher than what most are willing to pay for this kind of risk where the game is so dead/unpopular that folks wonder if this is the last year its gona be active, you can find posts quoting that same feeling of wondering if its goan shutdown that year going back to 2016/2017/2018 even last year in 2019 folks are asking if this is gona be the last year)

I think the biggest thing would be having a strict policy where the guides don't interfere between player interactions on PvP like they attempted to do before server split and currently do on PvE. I feel the guides have abused their powers alot in the past and is the main reason why we're in this situation, yes you could say its players complaining but I would instead blame the guides for actually giving in, listening to them and giving the players what their complaining about. In my opinion unless its a underground rock, a stuck person or some other thing that cannot be solved by a player than a guide has zero business getting in the middle of it... And if no guides are getting in the middle of anything than F2p shouldn't be a problem on PvP cuz the guides won't get overwhelmed and suggest a server split n death of f2p again if they stay out of everything.

My 2 cents as a disgruntled pvp player, I want to love this game but it feels like the squeekyest wheel gets the oil here and since PvE squeeks more they are getting all the oil.... We want some oil on PvP too in the form of fixing animals, meaningful updates like ranged or shield combat and some life injected into the server as if someone cares about pvp too, not just pve as it feels right now.

I feel like this game is alot more than the extremely grindy building simulator that is PvE server.

But when I look at the updates being focused on PvE and building, I can't help but feel half the game or more is being forgotten about.

[Static]

I've talked with multiple pvp players who feel the same as well, but feel like they are not being heard or that they are some sort of 2nd class citizen to what the pve server players want.

Imagine the competitive pvp scene we could have if folks like sark, ddt, dang, maniaczu, saint zoilus, bigjohn and others all didn't give up on the game and instead entered a tournament or something, we could have some high end battles but instead all the old players who want more than pve building have fled this game.. thats extremely sad to me and honestly I don't understand why this isn't being looked at as a big problem on the server when the longest playing players are becoming fed up and leaving.

I think this really highlights the divide in the community, you have pve players who don't care about other features outside of arch praising all the updates for them and being unable to understand why anyone would have a problem, than you have those who don't care at all about arch looking at the rest of the game unable to understand how you don't see huge glaring problems that stick out to most pvp players that pve players don't see and don't care about cuz everybody is focused on building arch instead of grinding combat stats.

[Static]

You advertise pve as this "grief free" server where guides will take care of you and help you in exchange for removing pvp and the ability to help yourself or take care of yourself if someone is griefing you (by physically killing them to stop them from griefing you)

But when someone actually has grief like someone using 20 accounts to totem drop sarks island to grief him by putting totems around his resources so he couldnt use them, nothing is done about it despite him being obviously griefed and cuz its pve he can't do jack about it cuz you removed combat.

How is this a working system? I thought the whole point of splitting severs from pve and pvp was so that we could have a "peaceful pve server where nobody needs to kill each other cuz the guides will solve all problems or griefing issues" But if you remove pvp and don't solve griefing issues like this than how is this any better than when there was only 1 server? I don't know a single person outside of pve arch builders who think the server split was a good idea, in fact, most people I talk to think its ruined the game to split a population of 10 players up between two servers.

I mean.. one of the 3 features advertised in this game is "community" yet you split it to the point where people think the game is dead? Seems silly to me.

[Jeckyll]

Well that was a nice rant. I hope your chest is feeling better now you got all of that of it.

I'm not sure where you got the misguided notion that all pve players want to do or care about is arch. I do like to build and despite its' obvious flaws the building system in this game is quite good. However I also like to hunt (despite the horrible combat system) and do that often or fish when I just want to sit back and mellow out at the lake or river. Then occasionally I like to make stuff like leather armor or bone armor or tools or weapons. Other times I'm into mindless rock picking or foraging and the not quite as mindless scavving. I'm not the only one who likes to do all these things and I know because I do play a lot on the pve server and have met a lot of people who do so much more than build and complain about it.

I've done pvp a lot in the past and quite frankly I'm over it especially in this game. Before you ask yes I also play on pvp here but just for a change. The horrible combat system and the lack of any anti-griefing/zerging mechanism really doesn't inspire to play much on the pvp server. I've been on the pvp server for a couple of years and it's really pretty tame probably because of the low population which means you rarely if ever see anyone else. I've wondered around both servers and found many functioning tribes with people in them that I have never seen or heard in game or on global. Also a lot of people just don't speak on either server so making guesses as to how many people play is just that a guess.

There are a lot of issues that need fixing in this game before (I think) making it f2p on pvp would attract and keep many people.
First and foremost the combat system. Then there's stuff like animals swiping you through fences, animals not wanting to walk over posts at ground level, animals running up or down hills/cliffs/waterfalls without a speed penalty, the weird restrictions on building under cantilevers etc, the issue with replacing anything in a fence-line rendering other fence segments invisible to animals, the absolutely weird way dirt is handled by the game and so the list goes on.

Funnily enough these affect both servers not just pvp and I hear players on both servers complaining about them. If as you put forward there are so few players on pvp and more on pve then just maybe that is where the biggest number of requests come from. Now I don't know about you but if I was running a business I would tend to listen more to the largest group of complaints than the smaller group. I'm not saying I would ignore them but maybe if they asked for something different or contrary to the majority then maybe I would tend to go with the majority. It is a little ironic when you think about it that you're complaining about the minority not being listened to when in day to day real life it is usually the vocal minority that runs roughshod over the silent majority. According to your posts in Xsyon the majority however is not silent.

I think my chest is feeling better now. :cool:

[Static]

The point I was making was that maybe fixing combat (the reason thousands of people played this in beta) or adding ranged (something promised for 7 years) or shields (promised 7 years ago) before adding things like "trussing" for building might've help keep a large majority of the combat based players or made them return.

I told a few people I knew I was gona start playing again and their first question was "did they add ranged or shields or update combat?"

They don't care about farming or trussing.

And while I agree these are good features for both server, its obviously ignoring game braking things on pvp server, while adding vanity that can only be seen as an addition to the pve server cuz it doesn't matter to most combat based players.

So this is why it doesn't feel like a equal thing, while I agree with you farming and trussing are cool I guess, better than how things used to be without a doubt, saying the game would've been more broken without them but having combat/ranged/shield/pvp fixed I just don't think is true and I don't think many combat based players would agree with that being a good trade.... thats kinda the point, these are vanity updates for people who play pve, this does nothing for the core game braking issues that prevent pvp/combat/ranged/shields from being a thing.

Like someone who lives out of carts, grinding stats with no interest in building, how does farming or trussing help address any of the parts of the game that he encounters issues with? It doesn't and thats the problem... feels like instead of addressing basic quality of life broken bits of the game, we instead got additional vanity before fixing the rest, this is why folks feel the pve is getting more attention cuz both farming and trussing came out before ranged and shields we where promised 7 years ago.

[Jeckyll]

So if I'm understanding what you said then 7 years ago everybody (well all combat players) wanted ranged and shields but when it wasn't implemented they left? Now you're asking for it and saying those that stayed (apparently the pve people) should have not got stuff for sticking around and the pvp people who left should have got the stuff they wanted?

I don't disagree that pvp is basically broken but that is down to a horrible combat system imho. Fixing combat to make it better, more challenging and interesting doesn't necessarily mean you need shields and ranged. Those would be nice but if they are added onto a horrible combat system I don't see the combat people hanging around.

Take a look around the game (as I know you do) and you'll find fortresses built on the pvp server. So to me that says the "trussing" and "farming" etc isn't only a pve thing and has added to the game on both servers, just as fixing the combat system would add to both servers.

[Static]

"I don't disagree that pvp is basically broken but that is down to a horrible combat system imho."

"Now you're asking for it and saying those that stayed (apparently the pve people) should have not got stuff for sticking around and the pvp people who left should have got the stuff they wanted?"

You don't see how these two issues connect to each other?

If there wasn't a horriable combat system, people wouldn't be leaving.

As in, people wait, for years, in faith, yet it doesn't happen, they give up and leave like sark, ddt, dang, maniaczu, MYSELF I even left and I've only been back a month or so cuz I got more time on my hands... but that doesn't invalidate my opinion or the reasons why people like me left "just cuz" you guys kept playing.. cuz you where getting vanity updates why wouldn't you keep playing, what logic is this?

[Static]

"Take a look around the game (as I know you do) and you'll find fortresses built on the pvp server. So to me that says the "trussing" and "farming" etc isn't only a pve thing and has added to the game on both servers, just as fixing the combat system would add to both servers."

You obviously are new here.

The "big tribes" your talking about on pvp are things like what... elite? elite has been around since before I started playing on this account, prob beena round longer than you've been playing too. Most of its old style dirt building thats been there forever.

Its old tribes being kept alive forever with max tribe boarders from AFK people being in the tribe, its EXTREMELY disappointing to see a afk tribe with that much controlled space thats been there forever yet always a ghost town.

There isn't as many huge tribes as you think.

I challenge you to start a pvp guy and... than notice theres only 2 locations to spawn at, babycakes afk tribe in the south thats just a bit flat area, or at founders. I have my tribe spawn on but I have no idea if folks can use it cuz I may not have enough people in my tribe with only 2.... but that would still only be a 3d option on the entire server? pretty bad.

We need a population boost badly, I think f2p on pvp would give us that.

keep f2p off pve, they can't handle the stress or drama.

But pvp this would bring life to the game.

[Jeckyll]

In response to both your posts. First read mine again and you will see that I do play pvp. Second I am new here compared to Sark and people like that but I have over 3 years of continuous play time so no I'm not new. Even if I was "new" it in no way makes my opinions and observations any less valid than anyone elses.

In 3+ years of playing I've been waiting for the combat to be fixed along with all the other issues and more that I mentioned in my first response to you. Guess what none of those things have been fixed. That's years of waiting for qol fixes but I haven't left nor have a lot of other players on pve. It seems from what you're saying that only pvp players leave when they have to wait for years to get things fixed. (Yes I know it's an exaggeration and that pve players leave too)

As for large tribes with only old school building you are very wrong. I raided a very big tribe that wasn't old school less than a month ago and it was an actual active tribe (not prepaid) up until 3 months ago. Then there is VR, Mariposa Rest, Phoenix of Xsyon (a work in progress), one near the scav pile in 978, one in 863 and another in 1022 all of which aren't old school arch. So big tribes with big builds are around and active using the new arch which means it was a benefit to pvp.

You fail to see that abandoning a server in a hissy fit because you didn't get what you wanted and then coming back and disrespecting the pve server might just not be doing your cause any good whatsever. While I have admitted that a better combat system would benefit both servers you fail to recognize that arch is a benefit to both.

From what I understand of f2p the flood of players led to all sorts of issues. Stuff like destroying scav piles deforesting large areas etc. I can see how on pvp killing those people would have brought trees and scav piles back. I can see how on pve people asked that the problem was acutally fixed. I think I'll go with the stress and drama people and have a world I can scav in.

We obviously have two different points of view on this and rather than continually going back and forth we should just agree to disagree.

[Xsyon]

I responded to a similar post in the the Suggestions section but I'll make a few comments here as well.

1) The issue with the creatures running away is something that was inadvertently changed. I'm not sure how or when it actually happened and I did look into the old code but couldn't figure it out. The upcoming creature patches fixes these issues and makes it much each to adjust and balance when creatures fight or run away. We'll be testing these things this week.

2) The updates I've been working on this year should be good for PvP players, at least players that enjoy combat.

3) Ranged combat, shield or additional combat improvements will come but require the creature / combat update that I am currently wrapping up.

4) The Peace Server was launched because there was always a high demand for it. I should have launched it on day one and it saved me from having to shut down the game. It wasn't launched due to advice from the Guides, although it did reduce the number of conflicts that I've had to personally deal with.

Actually one of the final signs that convinced me to launch the Peace Server was a poll done on a game website where 80% or so of the respondents said they would return to or start playing Xsyon if we had a PvE only server. There were more respondents to that poll than were playing Xsyon at the time.

5) The Free to Play system we had for a while was a counterproductive failure. Going Free to Play on Steam may be something else entirely as Xsyon would appear in different lists and categories, but I've already learned the hard way that major changes like this often come with unpredictable and unwanted results. It's not worth a risk right now when there are more reliable steps I can take such as finishing updates and removing Early Access.

I do appreciate the feedback and hope that answers your concerns.

Thanks!

[Static]

I appreciate the responses and look forward to the changes in combat.

We've talked heavily since this thread so most of the combat, ranged and other issues have been addressed elsewhere or to myself personally.

I am excited to see the shift in direction towards making combat something interactive and fun.

From what I can see most of the last test server updates where all really good.

The one and only thing I have to disagree with you is by saying that "The Free to Play system we had for a while was a counterproductive failure." with respect; having more players to play with matters more than any of the issues you've brought up as a reason to not have it.

Now I fully 100% understand this would not fly on pve, so I agree that pve should be kept as a "paid only" server. However; pvp needs the population boost more than pve does so having f2p on pvp would both help the population issue and give people the chance to "try the game" before deciding to buy.

Benefits of adding f2p to pvp greatly outweighs any negative imo;
1)
steam f2p would result in alot of new players playing this game who would otherwise not ever play, buy or even look at this game.
2)
Additional feedback and suggestions on combat features when put on test server if there was more population playing and wanting those features
3)
Additional twitch players would be streaming the game if there was population to play with (currently zero I can see) playing a game where you never see anyone else throughout the series is a real killer, these streams can't become popular is nothing is happening in the world due to nobody in it.
4)
"there are no NPC's in xsyon, players make their own adventure!" How if there isn't other players? You need to either release NPC's or find a way to get more players, f2p solves this by adding more players in order to interact with, this turns paid players into shop keepers and trade totems into high value resources to someone who is f2p since its the only way they could get high end equipment like premium shovels or 20 slot carts, trade would return to xsyon and generate a economy off the needs and wants of f2p players that could only be fulfilled by someone who is paid due to skill limits.
5)
More player interactions. This game is sorely missing player interactions, even if its a band of 3x f2p guys ganking a paid guy (under the correct combat conditions), that makes for good drama since now that guy will grind harder to get stronger, possibly even get a friend to come with them next time so its a 2v3 and maybe they win easily this time. It drives pvp players to become stronger to defend themselves verse someone or to revenge someone.... but if nobody ever attacks anyone and nobody has any grudges verse anyone and nobody is out hunting anyone else, than nobody really needs hps or stats or to grind for them, it kinda eliminates the whole point of pvp type combat games if nothing happens.
6)
Gain some respect back from the steam community that was heavily upset by the monthly fees involved with this game for the longest time; by making this f2p you should shut up all of those haters and gain extra population through people trying it and sharing to friends, but more importantly their friends being open to trying it cuz its f2p.


~Theres 6 good reasons off the top of my head why f2p would help solve issues on pvp server.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have their silly pve vanity server that is same as pvp but with less features, let them keep it as a paid only server for those who want to "opt out" of combat and want to build only, I can totally understand that. F2P would bother these people since they don't want any drama, griefing or combat, they want their trees left alone and nobody to totem drop their carts, they want guides to fix anything that causes them grief, thats what is expected, peace on the server.

But not everybody wants that.

In fact, nobody on pvp wants any of that, thats why there was such division to have two servers cuz you knew you couldn't just simply remove pvp combat from the entire game without upsetting a fair amount of people, so you made two servers intead of just forcing everybody into non-pvp.. again cuz you knew people wanted pvp and combat.

So again while I understand your trying to keep your pve people happy and I appreciate that, its seen generally as a bad move by most people on pvp since its "removed valuable player population and split up the synergy between crafters making good equipment and combat guys who dont make the good equipment". I understand your trying to do your best to make everybody happy, however; Those are the two biggest "core issues". With that being said; these two issues could be solved by adding f2p, since there would be additional players to play with, who would have to trade in lower grade raw materials in exchange for anything decent from a paid player, from a cart, to armor, to weapons, possibly even special tools like saws would all be highly valued by a f2p player and could only be gained from a paid player.

Again I get not wanting to put it on pve, and having it off pve could actually help generate more paid for those who want to "pay to get out of pvp" and just build vanity on pve. It would be clearly pushing people who want to play peace into paying for the game if they wana avoid pvp, while giving pvp more population and people the chance to play WITHOUT upsetting your valued pve population with f2p or pvp... Everybody is a winner here, I don't see the loss or down side.

Having the option to "import" your pvp guy onto pve would be pretty rad feature too, so that way if someone does pay to get out of pvp they can carry on with their guy on pve. Add a warning pop up window that says their tribe would no longer be there on pve, that its just the character transfering and it should be a semi smooth transition.

[Static]

I paid full price $32 canadian or something for this game recently for my wifes account, before you put the sale up on steam cuz I wanted it attached to her steam account so she wouldnt loose it.

Having f2p, steam only, locked to steam accounts, would prevent abuse since we wouldn't be able to log in without making a whole new steam account, than xsyon account and a new email for it all so I think that would heavily detour abuse.

The point I'm making here is that I've paid my dues and I'm not trying to get f2p accounts for myself to use since we have paid accounts... I'm purely looking at this from a population stand point and how it would benefit the server and feedback by giving more people to test features and suggest changes or features to be added to make combat more fun, more interactive so it feels more fluid, more real, more fun, instead of the generic "broken" that imo really doesn't highlight "what" the problem truely is.

We've gone over the problems lightly but the whole concept of combat is not here.... even real life boxing follows the basic rules of combat;
1)avoid damage
2)deal damage
3)inbetween combat get stronger

This has been true for every combat game since the start, doom, tomb raider, mortal combat, all first person shooters and even evolved into modern titles like dauntless (that is honestly the best example of showing alot of the below combat effects) skyrim ect the list goes on. I get your not a tripple AAA studio but most of the "frame work" is already there, xsyon's combat is already more complex than skyrim with the directional twitch style combat, it just needs to be refined and you could honestly have amazing combat.... Thats why folks play for the first time see the directional combat but than with nothing done beyond that to work with that style of combat its seen as "broken" vaguely since nobody can "put their finger" on what "exactly" makes it broken.

You could take this into more complex concepts like;
a) counter attacks - waiting for the enemy to swing, make them miss, than capitalize on hitting them in the opening. This could be some kind of overswing, a way AAA studios do this is by having the starting slow swing/rear up animation, than a fast attack animation with a slow recovery back to stationary giving the clear visual cue to the player 1) hes attacking and 2) this is the opening to hit him after
b) hit recovery - if you hit someone with a heavy full power hit, it should have some kind of effect (fast hits dont apply) this could be a hit recovery, this could be causing them to lose their charged up hit, could even be a stamina hit
c) parry - avoid damage while opening up the ability to deal damage, this could be a stun, this could be a hit recovery action, this could be stamina hit
d) block - avoid damage, take stamina damage, more complex could be parry blocks or shield bashes that smack the weapon hand out of the way opening up the ability to deal damage
e) lunge attack - stamina used to do a forward leaping/lunge attack. This could be under dodge skill and would be great for polearms and getting in quickly to capitalize on a opening to deal damage

These are just the basic concepts off the top of my head that are planned around when your building combat in order to make combat that feels good, real and interactive. A fair amount of my friends work in building games so I've picked up a fair amount over the years, I've even helped them come up with ideas that have made it into some of their games as solutions to issues they brought up.

Having those above player changes would mean the world for pvp, but for pve verse creatures you would also than need to change the creatures to be more interactive than a 1990's mmo where they just walk up to you and spam the same single attack repeatedly (this could be why it feels broken or rather out dated and non interactive)

So instead of having a creature that just repeatedly spams a single attack while you spam your single attack till one of you dies like a bad game from 1990s, you would also need to change creatures to have more interactive combat. So they feel alive with weakness instead of a mindless zealot till they die, that should be every game designers goal, or at least thats what I'm told.

Somethings you gotta keep in mind to have a good interactive creature:
1.1) Multiple attacks - if all they are doing is spamming the same single attack with the same timing than players can easily exploit this like your walking back combat you want to avoid. By making the attacks different, with different responses required to each attack, you remove the ability for players to use the same trick verse every attack since it won't work for every attack. Some basic attack types to choose from that would work are:
a) power lunge attack - rear up slowly to show its going to leap forward and lunge forward, this needs to be locked in the direction that the lunge attack starts at so that the player can side step or side dodge in order to avoid the lunge. There also needs to be some kind of slow overswing/recovery to default that opens up the ability for the player to hit them at least once while they are locked in that direction.
b) quick attack - this could be what the default attack is "currently" on servers and not what was tested on last test. What I mean by this is that you can "see" the start of the swing happen with enough time to parry and if you make them miss, the overswing/recovery to default speed is long enough to hit them, this is what the goal should be; I'm not suggesting leaving old bugged code or "putting it back", I'm just saying it needs to be recoded to work like this. Lunge attack would prevent the ability for someone to walk back in a line.
c) swipe attack - like lunge attack it would give a "different' rearing/wind up animation than do a sweeping attack around the front half of the creature so if someone side steps or side dodges to avoid a lunge attack, they would still get hit with the sweeping wide swing attack
1.2) With these 3x attacks you would have different attacks and different responses to each, lunge you would need to side step or side dodge, swipe you would have to roll backwards or dodge backwards or walk back instead of to the side, quick attack you would need to parry or block or avoid.
2)creatures need to be alive, feel pain, when you hit them there needs to be a reaction (you already have a hit recovery action in game)
3)creatures need counter play, this means you need the ability hit put them into hit recovery, or wound them, or stun them with a heavy blow, all the above player suggestions need to effect these animals.
4) counter attack, if a creature lunges at you and you smack them with a heavy attack before they hit you in the lunge animation, than you should heavily damage them and stun them, possibly forcing them to lay down unable to combat till the stun animation is over.

My "best advise" is to download dauntless; its free and will show you how I think end game combat should be in this game. Ignore the flashy graphics, ignore the big fancy attacks; focus on the concept; the concept of the monster attacking and leaving openings after... and beyond that, if a creature "charges" you like the wolf guy is the best example, if you time a power attack at him charging you and you smack him first, than he gets smacked to the ground and has to recover back to his feet. Do you run? Do you try to hit him charging at you? Do you fail and get smoked by the charge? this is interesting combat.

Adding wounding, broken bones or bleeding mechanics would also be good, you could have bats/maces do more limb braking damage and have things like knives do bleeding damage and axes do half wounding half bleeding... LOTS of options here.

I get thats alot to process but thats more or less the combat bible and the base concepts you should be asking yourself when thinking about the direction of combat; how can I make this more interactive. I made it easy on ya I think with this post, I know your not a combat programmer but at least you know the direction and concepts you should be thinking about.

[MrDDT]

Let me start off by saying there is a lot of good info here and ideas. Many I've already said long before.




You could take this into more complex concepts like;
a) counter attacks - waiting for the enemy to swing, make them miss, than capitalize on hitting them in the opening. This could be some kind of overswing, a way AAA studios do this is by having the starting slow swing/rear up animation, than a fast attack animation with a slow recovery back to stationary giving the clear visual cue to the player 1) hes attacking and 2) this is the opening to hit him after

We had this already in charged attacks with parry. No one uses it. The reason why is because it's highly ping focused and in like a lot of games, you are better off getting a hit in for sure than trying to parry for a chance to get it right.
This works well in games like Mount and Blade. Where you can control the ping a lot better, they are more focused on combat.




b) hit recovery - if you hit someone with a heavy full power hit, it should have some kind of effect (fast hits dont apply) this could be a hit recovery, this could be causing them to lose their charged up hit, could even be a stamina hit

I like this idea. However, I think removing the charged attacks are going to be happening, so what this could be is simply a delay/stun (very very short) in when they can attack again.




c) parry - avoid damage while opening up the ability to deal damage, this could be a stun, this could be a hit recovery action, this could be stamina hit

Great job on getting him to see this, I've said this a while back. Really good to see it put into place.



d) block - avoid damage, take stamina damage, more complex could be parry blocks or shield bashes that smack the weapon hand out of the way opening up the ability to deal damage

I would love to see some shields put into game. I'm not sure he can do it without an artist but yes to this. Please yes. Really going to be needed when archery comes out soon too.




e) lunge attack - stamina used to do a forward leaping/lunge attack. This could be under dodge skill and would be great for polearms and getting in quickly to capitalize on a opening to deal damage

Would love to see this for all attacks, but could really make group combat with a back line having more ranged but slower attacks with a polearm/archery. Lunges would really add skill to all types of combat here.




1.1) Multiple attacks - if all they are doing is spamming the same single attack with the same timing than players can easily exploit this like your walking back combat you want to avoid. By making the attacks different, with different responses required to each attack, you remove the ability for players to use the same trick verse every attack since it won't work for every attack. Some basic attack types to choose from that would work are:
a) power lunge attack - rear up slowly to show its going to leap forward and lunge forward, this needs to be locked in the direction that the lunge attack starts at so that the player can side step or side dodge in order to avoid the lunge. There also needs to be some kind of slow overswing/recovery to default that opens up the ability for the player to hit them at least once while they are locked in that direction.
b) quick attack - this could be what the default attack is "currently" on servers and not what was tested on last test. What I mean by this is that you can "see" the start of the swing happen with enough time to parry and if you make them miss, the overswing/recovery to default speed is long enough to hit them, this is what the goal should be; I'm not suggesting leaving old bugged code or "putting it back", I'm just saying it needs to be recoded to work like this. Lunge attack would prevent the ability for someone to walk back in a line.
c) swipe attack - like lunge attack it would give a "different' rearing/wind up animation than do a sweeping attack around the front half of the creature so if someone side steps or side dodges to avoid a lunge attack, they would still get hit with the sweeping wide swing attack
1.2) With these 3x attacks you would have different attacks and different responses to each, lunge you would need to side step or side dodge, swipe you would have to roll backwards or dodge backwards or walk back instead of to the side, quick attack you would need to parry or block or avoid.
2)creatures need to be alive, feel pain, when you hit them there needs to be a reaction (you already have a hit recovery action in game)
3)creatures need counter play, this means you need the ability hit put them into hit recovery, or wound them, or stun them with a heavy blow, all the above player suggestions need to effect these animals.
4) counter attack, if a creature lunges at you and you smack them with a heavy attack before they hit you in the lunge animation, than you should heavily damage them and stun them, possibly forcing them to lay down unable to combat till the stun animation is over.

Loving all of this. You can even add more to the list.




Adding wounding, broken bones or bleeding mechanics would also be good, you could have bats/maces do more limb braking damage and have things like knives do bleeding damage and axes do half wounding half bleeding... LOTS of options here.


I love these ideas, but before you can put too much of it in, you also need a way to fix them. How you going to fix bleeding or a broken bone? We need that stuff put in before you make it in.