08/10/2020 - Feedback Request - Mounts & Pets (Test Server)

[Xsyon]

I'm consolidating feedback from the other Pets & Mounts threads here.

The Test Server is up with some changes:

1) I'm running a revised path finding function. It's much faster but I'm not sure if it works properly. Does path finding (basically creatures following a target or wandering around) seem ok and the same as on the Main Servers? Or does it seem different with this build?

2) Age in the Pets Panel should display correctly.

3) I've reduced the amount of bones and meat gathered from large and legendary creatures. (This amount was already capped at 100 but was calculating much higher initial numbers for encumbrance purposes).

4) You should not be able to dissect a dead pet.

Questions / Answers

1) Currently animals won't eat cooked food. I will set this up later as I'm thinking it would be cool for bonuses to apply to creatures. It's also more complex as the taste / effect would be based on the ingredients.

2) About avoiding creatures attacking you while riding: It's deliberately set up right now so that creatures can attack you while mounted. Eventually I want to set up mounted combat.

Other issues I'm working on

1) Further revising your pets' combat power, especially mutants. I'm thinking a possible solution would be to do this:

- Only child mutants can be tamed.
- Tamed mutants would increase in power (hp etc.) much less than mutants in the wild.
- If you release an adult mutant it would revert to gain power like a wild mutant, but wouldn't be tame-able.

This way the numbers would make sense and players wouldn't have overpowered mutant pets.

Any thoughts on this?

2) Continued adjustments to creatures' scale and bounding boxes.

3) Making mutants more difficult to tame (would fit in with changes above).

4) How to best deal with dead pets. I was going to have them simply revive at home and take time to restore their hp. I could allow permanent death though (maybe just on the War Server?) Any thoughts on this?

5) I need additional testing and feedback on these issues:

Invisible Pets (https://www.xsyon.com/project.php?issueid=2718)

HP Mouse Over (https://www.xsyon.com/project.php?issueid=2717)

I think that's it. If there are any other issues you all think need to be addressed before making this patch public, let me know.

Thanks!

[MrDDT]

Other issues I'm working on

1) Further revising your pets' combat power, especially mutants. I'm thinking a possible solution would be to do this:

- Only child mutants can be tamed.
- Tamed mutants would increase in power (hp etc.) much less than mutants in the wild.
- If you release an adult mutant it would revert to gain power like a wild mutant, but wouldn't be tame-able.

This way the numbers would make sense and players wouldn't have overpowered mutant pets.

Any thoughts on this?

1b) I think only young mutants can be tamed is great. With your option with that they are not as strong (HP/DMG/Armor) as wild ones. If released they go back to normal (and skin-able).
I think this is great.



2) Continued adjustments to creatures' scale and bounding boxes.


2b) I've noticed a lot of times on a cliff or near things like that, the pets will not attack nor will the other animal. I'm thinking its a range issue.



3) Making mutants more difficult to tame (would fit in with changes above).

3b) I fully agree with this. Right now the chance to fail is good on animals/mutants. However, I feel the skill levels/stats are sorta outa balance on some of the mutants (currently the young ones).



4) How to best deal with dead pets. I was going to have them simply revive at home and take time to restore their hp. I could allow permanent death though (maybe just on the War Server?) Any thoughts on this?

4b)I think its a good idea only on the War Server perma loss of a pet. I think them dying (reviving at home is sorta irrelevant because they insta teleport to you). But slowly getting HP back would be nice.
Also being able to feed them to get food back would be good. I think their regen without feeding should be like 1/4th speed. But if you feed them you get 100% speed. With even some food giving a buff (like we get to eat). Really excited for this stuff.



5) I need additional testing and feedback on these issues:

Invisible Pets (https://www.xsyon.com/project.php?issueid=2718)

HP Mouse Over (https://www.xsyon.com/project.php?issueid=2717)

I think that's it. If there are any other issues you all think need to be addressed before making this patch public, let me know.

Thanks!


The invisible pets is able to be done over and over. If you need help with it still let me know. He updated exactly how to do it.

[MrDDT]

This is what I'm talking about how pets wont attack sometimes on a hill or something. I think its a range issue.


775

[Xsyon]

The invisible pets is able to be done over and over. If you need help with it still let me know. He updated exactly how to do it.

Yes, I would appreciate more help. Can you reproduce this on the current Test Server?

If you can, when you send home a pet but it stays in place, does this happen when you're in a different zone, far from the stables, or can it be reproduced when you are in the same zone, near the stables?

[wastelandstoic]

Other issues I'm working on

1) Further revising your pets' combat power, especially mutants. I'm thinking a possible solution would be to do this:

- Only child mutants can be tamed.
- Tamed mutants would increase in power (hp etc.) much less than mutants in the wild.
- If you release an adult mutant it would revert to gain power like a wild mutant, but wouldn't be tame-able.

This way the numbers would make sense and players wouldn't have overpowered mutant pets.

Any thoughts on this?



Since pets are live and dozens of people are out hunting mutants and have already tamed mutants, it would be a curtesy if when you implement these changes people don't lose pets but instead they revert to the highest tame-able mutant status.




4) How to best deal with dead pets. I was going to have them simply revive at home and take time to restore their hp. I could allow permanent death though (maybe just on the War Server?) Any thoughts on this?



Revive at home - PvE, Perm death - PvP would make sense to me.

[MrDDT]

I'm consolidating feedback from the other Pets & Mounts threads here.

The Test Server is up with some changes:

1) I'm running a revised path finding function. It's much faster but I'm not sure if it works properly. Does path finding (basically creatures following a target or wandering around) seem ok and the same as on the Main Servers? Or does it seem different with this build?

2) Age in the Pets Panel should display correctly.

3) I've reduced the amount of bones and meat gathered from large and legendary creatures. (This amount was already capped at 100 but was calculating much higher initial numbers for encumbrance purposes).

4) You should not be able to dissect a dead pet.



1) This looks a lot better, however, I have noticed that animals seem to run a lot more. I like better on test than on main.

2)Confirmed working.

3)Confirmed working, and this is much more balanced. Thank you. I noticed you lowered the amounts overall (but hides) and this looks a lot lot lot better. Normals and Mutants.

4) Confirmed can't.

[MrDDT]

Since pets are live and dozens of people are out hunting mutants and have already tamed mutants, it would be a curtesy if when you implement these changes people don't lose pets but instead they revert to the highest tame-able mutant status.



I disagree with this, I believe part of the point of taming is to be able to train up them to get better resources from them. If this were to happen above. We would be back to penning up animals and dying to them over and over to level them up to get good resources.

[Lohn]

Yes, I would appreciate more help. Can you reproduce this on the current Test Server?

If you can, when you send home a pet but it stays in place, does this happen when you're in a different zone, far from the stables, or can it be reproduced when you are in the same zone, near the stables?

Hey there, I'm the one that posted the bug for invisible pets; in all of my cases I was far, 2-3 zones from home and sent the pet home via menu then tamed something I found, and ran it home. When I arrived and finished putting the new pet in a stable I'd summon my old pet to me to stable since it was left standing in the world as an inanimate object. This is where it ends up invisible when I summoned it to me back at home. I can test this on the test server and see if it's a thing there.


Test server: It appears to be fixed, and from my testing must've been related to the also-fixed full stable bug. I can however still cause the pet to stay in the world, via sending them home from a far away zone.

Pic: https://imgur.com/a/QANcWy2

Upon taming a new pet this copy disappears from the world, at least.

[wastelandstoic]

I'm only talking about Mutant pets already tamed once the purposed revisions in #4 above get added to the live server. Rather than have all the players who have spent hours to eventually tame a prized Mutant pet lose that pet altogether (let's say their 5k Mutant bear that took 45 attempts to finally tame) throw the players a bone and at least have that Mutant pet revert to the 'child' status Mutant pet Xsyon is purposing. Otherwise you waste a lot of players time and excitement.

[MrDDT]

I'm only talking about Mutant pets already tamed once the purposed revisions in #4 above get added to the live server. Rather than have all the players who have spent hours to eventually tame a prized Mutant pet lose that pet altogether (let's say their 5k Mutant bear that took 45 attempts to finally tame) throw the players a bone and at least have that Mutant pet revert to the 'child' status Mutant pet Xsyon is purposing. Otherwise you waste a lot of players time and excitement.

I get you now. I think what he is going to do have it auto update to what they should be after the new update.

So your 5k mutant will be the same age/power as it is now based on the new changes he is stating. So no one is going to lose what they got.

[wastelandstoic]

That would be great.

[MrDDT]

Just checked out the changes to the pets.

They are a lot more inline with what you want for group fighting of mutants. I think they are still extremely powerful. Having 10 pets with 600+ HP will still be strong. But I think it will work out ok.


Some people have voiced a concern about mutants in none/low areas and it's hard to play when you having these group powerful mutants killing them. Including new players.

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is up (since last night) with a few changes:

1) Only child mutants can be tamed.

2) Pet mutants have reduced stats. (These could be further reduced but I think are ok for now. I intend them to at least be higher than regular bears).

3) Setting free a mutant pet reverts its stats to where they would be for its current age and power. Alternately I could lower its age and/or power to closer match its stats as a pet but I think this is ok. Any opinions?

4) I'm running a War Server build. Your pets can die permanently. You can also gather materials from your pet if it dies. (I figure this makes sense since that pet is gone forever).

When this is confirmed working properly I will restart with a Peace Server build. With the Peace Server build, your pet will revive with low hp and energy.

5) All situations where a pet sent home wasn't disappearing should be fixed now. (Basically sending the pet from a distant zone was a problem but should be fine now).

[MrDDT]

2) I think its ok, they still really strong but not sure how far to go.

3) My opinion is they released exactly as they were tamed up. This would be the way to get the resources high end people want.

4) I think thats good idea. They gone for good so they only get it once anyways. Plus the victor can get it.

5) This looks fixed to me.


Question about mounts.

We going to be able to mount mutants? Also are they only limited to deer and bear?

[thurgond]

Couldn't test this on the test server, but don't think it has changed from the live servers.

Pets will not defend you if you are attacked or attack your target if you go into combat. This is a special problem with the tiny but ultra-aggressive critters like bear cubs, coyote pups, and even fawns. To get your pet to attack, you have to click on the critter (could be inside your pet if you have a large pet active, and you cannot be in combat) and then click on the Pet Attack button. I usually have to kill the critter myself since Pet Home button is next to the Attack button.

At a minimum, please move the Home button so that it not next to the attack button (eg. between Home and Patrol).

[MrDDT]

Pets on the test server, I'm having issues when they die, you have a few bugs with it.

1) They do not show dead at the totem
2) You can't tell when they are "alive" again unless you change zones after like 10mins
3) You can mount them and get the mount speed even if they are dead and they look dead while riding them.

[thurgond]

Tested some this evening. Generally happy, but a few problems/questions/suggestions.

Experienced a zone loading bug (no trees or buildings) after death that I haven't seen in a few years.

Took 3 tries to get my bear to attack a legendary coyote. When she finally attacked, she took no damage even though she had about 25 fewer hp to start. Pet critter combat on slopes may need some more work.

When mounted, there is no back up command. Had expected this to sort of work like carts. Could forage, scavenge and drink while mounted. These actions cannot be done while pulling a cart, so why while mounted?

It is nice to be able to do things in the pet window that can only be done at stables on the live server, like rename or set free. You can also summon pets from the other side of the map. Is this intended?

I would like to be able to assign some pet commands (attack, mount, follow) to keys.

[Whorlok]

ACCEPT

Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
4) How to best deal with dead pets. I was going to have them simply revive at home and take time to restore their hp. I could allow permanent death though (maybe just on the War Server?) Any thoughts on this?
4b)I think its a good idea only on the War Server perma loss of a pet. I think them dying (reviving at home is sorta irrelevant because they insta teleport to you). But slowly getting HP back would be nice.
Also being able to feed them to get food back would be good. I think their regen without feeding should be like 1/4th speed. But if you feed them you get 100% speed. With even some food giving a buff (like we get to eat). Really excited for this stuff.

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is up with a few changes:

1) Pet death is completed. Pets with stables should be ported to the stables on death, then revive with low health after 2 minutes. Pets without stables should revive at their death location after 2 minutes. While the pet is dead (unconscious) you shouldn't be able to use any commands on the pet except for renaming.

2) Creatures in combat on slopes should work better. If there are still issues I would need an exact location to check as it's dependent on the terrain.

Questions and Answers:

1) Mutants will be able to be used as mounts but not with this first patch.

2) I will look into allowing mounts to walk backwards. I deliberately didn't set up mounts to walk backwards for now.

3) I put additional key binds for pet commands on my suggestions list for a future patch. I'd have to revise the key bind panel again to add those and I'm running out of default key binds to use. lol

4) Yes, pets will not attack creature to defend you automatically. I've put that on my suggestions list but it's not a easy thing to implement as a player doesn't have a selected target. It would also require an additional 'mode' for pets (like in Warcraft where you can set your pet to defend or not).

5) Yes, summoning pets from a distance, even across the map is intended.

Thanks!

[MrDDT]

Also noticed that pets stay in the world forever.

So like there is a Shadowbear at founders that is a tamed pet of someone's and its been there for over a week.

We might need to make it so if they not in the stables they need to be fed like once a week or something.

[MrDDT]

2) Creatures in combat on slopes should work better. If there are still issues I would need an exact location to check as it's dependent on the terrain.



Another issue I found is that while mounted you can summon as many pets as you want without the other pets going back.


Random Slope I checked and still having issues. Here you can see both the pet (Shadowbear) and the target (Mutant Squirrel) are not attacking each other at all.


776

[MrDDT]

As other people have noted there are not really any "baby" mutants.

Is it possible to open the margin for mutants that can be tamed? Maybe like Adults or less?

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is up with a few changes:

1) Summoning other pets while you are mounted should be blocked.

2) Setting free your pet while you are mounted on it should be blocked.

3) Migration (which runs once per game day) should teleport any creatures trapped on tribe land to their off tribe land home location. In some situations this may take more than one round of migration to occur. The goal is that players should no longer trap creatures and only keep creatures as proper pets. For players that want to create zoos with more visible pets, there will be a future patch with larger stables and more movement for visible stabled pets.

4) Your active pet should log off and on with your player. Other players should see the pet appear and disappear along with your toon.

Questions and Answers

1) Regarding the lack of baby mutants: With trapped creatures being set free, breeding functions should work better. I will review and adjust breeding and mutation to make sure there are always some mutant baby creatures around.

2) I will continue adjusting combat on slopes over the next few weeks. The issue is basically that creatures move within attack range but their height position is calculated at the end of a move (which is normal for ground collision). This can create situations where creatures are moved within range of each other, then moved slightly out of actual attack range by their height positioning. The current code adjusts for initial height differences but I have to keep tweaking and adjusting the function to make sure it works in all cases and is optimized for fast calculations.

[MrDDT]

Thanks Xsyon.

I did notice on some pets they are extremely hard to level up their combat power because they die so easy and do almost no damage. Example is a Chicken (or mutant chicken).

So you have to kill 100s of creatures with it, but they do almost no damage to kill stuff.

My thought maybe to help this would be to change how the combat power levels up based on the tier of animal.

Like bears/deer would take more creatures to level it up, but a chicken or hamster would take less.