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thorram
06-06-2010, 10:01 PM
I saw another thread somewhere about this and others with the same concern with their comps running in the 90's while playing Xsyon.I too experience this and was wondering if the devs are working to remedy this?Thanks for any and all info :)

JCatano
06-06-2010, 11:57 PM
Your PC or GPU?

The other thread is about GPUs.

Mims44
06-07-2010, 07:41 AM
90's farenheit? not too bad for a processor:/

stanleyxd
06-07-2010, 08:27 AM
QQ more mine run at 95 when idle :P

Hurk
06-07-2010, 09:53 AM
OK so first thing: Is this the CPU or GPU you are talking about?

I had a problem where my GPU was hitting 130 Celsius and needless to say that was not good. I realized that with my nVidia graphics card I had a very cheap fan on it with almost no heat sinks so I bought a new fan. Installed it and it immediately dropped to 50-60 Celsius idle and maxed at 80 C while gaming.

Another thing you might want to do is buy a can of compressed air, unplug your computer, open the case and go to town cleaning every area you can reach inside there. Have the vacuum handy to scoop it all up.

I have never had a problem where a game was to blame for my crappy equipment failing. Run a Pinto on the Autobahn at top speed for 2 hours and if the engine freezes up is it the fault of the Autobahn?

pid73
06-07-2010, 12:58 PM
I think it is a problem of comparison. other games with better graphics do not need the same level of hardware. it is now clear that there are not the optimizations that streamlined graphics engines have (unreal, quake or whatever).

Chile
06-07-2010, 01:02 PM
Hurk wrote:

OK so first thing: Is this the CPU or GPU you are talking about?

I had a problem where my GPU was hitting 130 Celsius and needless to say that was not good. I realized that with my nVidia graphics card I had a very cheap fan on it with almost no heat sinks so I bought a new fan. Installed it and it immediately dropped to 50-60 Celsius idle and maxed at 80 C while gaming.

Another thing you might want to do is buy a can of compressed air, unplug your computer, open the case and go to town cleaning every area you can reach inside there. Have the vacuum handy to scoop it all up.

I have never had a problem where a game was to blame for my crappy equipment failing. Run a Pinto on the Autobahn at top speed for 2 hours and if the engine freezes up is it the fault of the Autobahn?

I would agree with Hurk and upgrade to a new heatsink and fan, along with good thermal paste/compound (not thermal adhesive). You could also step up into the world of water cooling if modding is your thing, if not stick to a good heatsink/fan combo. Extra fans in the case is also good and as Hurk mentioned, a clean PC is essential to combating heat. Just say NO to dust bunnies!

cuel
06-07-2010, 01:06 PM
lol you rly think ppl would uprage theyr gpu just for xsyon?
thats MADNESS

my engtx295 overheat after 20-30 min xsyon

i play crysis all full for 4h+ = nothing

its a problem of the game engine and i think they wil optimize that

zephar123
06-07-2010, 02:36 PM
simple fixes first, most issues are not the game, but infact the weather is getting hotter and odds are your fan on your GPU is getting slower with time.

If you have a ATI download this program you can manually speed up the fan. Odds are you will find its only running at liek 50%.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=725

You can look around thier if you have nvidia links their as well.

Relandi
06-07-2010, 02:54 PM
I have to just laugh at the people who keep saying "it's your fan" or "it's the weather"

Listen - I've used a PC to game for well over a decade now, I know how to maintain a computer, and I'm more than able to keep a PC at well below standard "cool" temps.

I also live in the Pacific Northwest, where, as most know, perhaps you don't, but we don't have much in the way of extreme weather. It rains, a lot.

Now - that being said, and I've repeated this SEVERAL times now. I can play Crysis on damn high settings, and not even remotely hit the same GPU temperature as I do while on Xsyon, let alone under 100% fan use..

Someone claims Xsyon hasn't revealed the "required system specs" yet here they are, sitting in the FAQ:


8.) What are the system requirements?
Windows (XP, Vista, Windows 7)
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 3Ghz (or similar)
RAM: 2GB
Video: 512 MB Video supporting Pixel Shader 2.0
Hard Drive: 10 GB
Of course we recommend the best system possible!

So - being that I have WELL over the required system specs (I'm running dual core 2.5ghz + 8800 GT OC'd) and I can play any other game out without touching even remotely the same GPU usage and temps, I'm left pointing the finger at Xsyon.

And no, the OC on my card is not the problem, my card runs at an average 60-70 while under heavy loads on other games, with maybe 50% fan..

My 8800GT runs at 80-90 under 100% fan on Xsyon - this is not right, no matter how you spin it.

Kitsume
06-07-2010, 03:22 PM
I see your card is pretty high on the hierarchy list of video cards, so it should work ok. Tom's Hardware GPU List (httphttp://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-geforce-radeon,2646-7.html)

But even with my ATI HD 5850, my GPU monitor shows it working at 99% on full settings in Xsyon.

Have you tried turning off your overclocking on the GPU card and monitoring the results? Overclocking by it's nature taxes the card, causing it to run hotter when stressed. If you haven't compensated for that stress with extra cooling provisions, then it will run hotter.

Running a circuit hotter than normal also can cause premature aging, which is one reason I don't overclock with out using serious cooling provisions.

cbowsin
06-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Relandi wrote:

My 8800GT runs at 80-90 under 100% fan on Xsyon - this is not right, no matter how you spin it.

And mine runs 80-90 under 50% fan speed. It is a problem with your card or your cooling.

Since this topic seems to be a pretty 'hot' topic, lol (Pun intended) I started researching around similar issues. Many posts I found are pointing to the hardware of the user, I have yet to find a single post of any other game where the software was blamed and the developers acknowledged and resolved the issue.

What do GPU's do? It renders. So the only thing the software can do to reduce amount of rendering the video card performs is to reduce the amount of objects that need ot be rendered. Thus video options are implemented to reduce the amount rendering required based on user preferences and capabilities. If setting all the video options to very low is still not enough, then all models and other graphical elements would have to be reduced which basically decreases their level of detail. Such as taking an object with 150k polygons down to say 25k polygons (just throwing out numbers). That's why many players can play WoW, because it is not as graphic heavy and their models are very simple compared to newer highly detailed games.

If you have a heating problem then you need a cooling fix. Plain and simple. I don't think Xsyon should dumb down graphics, because I like the graphics the way they are and Ive put well over 4 hours of gaming in one session without a problem.

Relandi
06-07-2010, 03:53 PM
cbowsin wrote:

If you have a heating problem then you need a cooling fix. Plain and simple. I don't think Xsyon should dumb down graphics, because I like the graphics the way they are and Ive put well over 4 hours of gaming in one session without a problem.

You're ignoring the glaring fact I can run other games (with MUCH higher graphical capabilities) without touching the same GPU heat or fan usage.

I have 0 heating or cooling problems, slugger, but you can keep using that as your refrain if it helps you feel better.

Hell I'm running Global Agenda on max settings while streaming a movie to my PS3 right now - and my GPU is sitting at a nice 62 under 48% fan usage.

But yeah.. I must have a cooling problem.. ha. ;)

Kitsume wrote:

I see your card is pretty high on the hierarchy list of video cards, so it should work ok. Tom's Hardware GPU List (httphttp://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-geforce-radeon,2646-7.html)

But even with my ATI HD 5850, my GPU monitor shows it working at 99% on full settings in Xsyon.

Have you tried turning off your overclocking on the GPU card and monitoring the results? Overclocking by it's nature taxes the card, causing it to run hotter when stressed. If you haven't compensated for that stress with extra cooling provisions, then it will run hotter.

Yeah - I've set my card to what would be "factory" of a normal 8800GT and still saw pretty much the exact same temp and fan usage - Dropping maybe 1-2, and that could have been caused by me having the side off for that.

I've got ample cooling on my PC (infact, probably overkill by anyones standards, found some good deals on newegg >>) as I've stated above, my card rarely heats up this much with any game, let alone a barebones game like Xsyon.

Seeing you getting 99% usage out of an ATI HD5850 is rather off-putting, to say the least.

zephar123
06-07-2010, 04:18 PM
what is your graphics controler chip set?

My mom is running on a nividia 6800 gt all settings up and is getting around 80 celsius which seems nominal. You guys technically should be doing better.

Reason I ask, for example the nforce 3 chip set has issues with certain shadows unless your using the more uptodate one. Alot of people seem to update the graphic card drivers, but forget controller chipset drivers.

Kitsume
06-07-2010, 04:33 PM
I had to roll back my Video card drivers, due to a compatibility problem with the latest update and Xsyon screen resolutions.

I am seeing 50-70 FPS, if I turn off tree shadows, I usually get lower utilization and better FPS, around 80-100. But I do see a difference depending on the number of trees visible, hopefully this will be optimized in the future.

All settings turned to minimum, I'm 120+ FPS and 35% utilization on the GPU.

zephar123
06-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Kitsume wrote:

I had to roll back my Video card drivers, due to a compatibility problem with the latest update and Xsyon screen resolutions.

I am seeing 50-70 FPS, if I turn off tree shadows, I usually get lower utilization and better FPS, around 80-100. But I do see a difference depending on the number of trees visible, hopefully this will be optimized in the future.

All settings turned to minimum, I'm 120+ FPS and 35% utilization on the GPU.

which video card are you running. Just asking more information the better for everyone =).

Kitsume
06-07-2010, 04:55 PM
ATI Raidon HD 5750, made/sold by XFX

I run 2 monitors, Main through HDMI to a Toshiba Regza 32" LCD TV/Monitor. The other is through DVI to a 19" LCD. Of course the 32" is my gaming monitor, I'm currently running at 1600 x 900 for UI item screen size. Not optimum, but it works for me. 1970 x 1080, the text is too small for my tired eyes to read. 1360 x 768 is ok, but the UI windows fill up the screen too much.

cbowsin
06-07-2010, 05:08 PM
Relandi wrote:

You're ignoring the glaring fact I can run other games (with MUCH higher graphical capabilities) without touching the same GPU heat or fan usage.

I have 0 heating or cooling problems, slugger, but you can keep using that as your refrain if it helps you feel better.

Hell I'm running Global Agenda on max settings while streaming a movie to my PS3 right now - and my GPU is sitting at a nice 62 under 48% fan usage.

But yeah.. I must have a cooling problem.. ha. ;)

So I opened my box last night and discovered that; one, my side case fan is not working and two, I haven't cleaned my PC in the two years since I built it. Yet I run the same temperatures as you do and have no problem playing all day long. Clearly a software issue, lol.

I never played Crysis, so I looked it up on 'Can U Run It' and as far as system req'ts goes, that game is a joke. But the biggest straw is you are comparing this game to Global Agenda? Seriously? That game is no where near the graphic quality of Xsyon, I know I played the trial. Heck, if that is the case we might as well compare Xsyon to Minesweeper.

But seriously, I know you guys are all ancy to blame software for your PC Hardware malfunctions, so please enlighten us programmers how we can make your GPUs run cooler (without affecting game models, of course).

JCatano
06-07-2010, 05:13 PM
You people telling others that it's simply a cooling issue are insane. Some of you are even reporting very high temps, but you're saying they "seem fine".

There has only been one person in the other thread and this one with an acceptable temp, and that's me (74C-75C with tree detail at 320m).

To the people running in the 80s and 90's, that is not normal, especially considering that Xsyon's graphics aren't that great.

A 10 minute Furmark test tops my GPU (GT 240 overclocked) at 79C degrees. That's a full load test for people not familiar with stress tests. It basically bashes your card as much as it can with fur rendering.

With tree detail set at max distance (960m?), Xsyon hits 79C...

That is a coding problem.

Hurk
06-07-2010, 05:13 PM
Relandi wrote:

I have to just laugh at the people who keep saying "it's your fan" or "it's the weather"

Listen - I've used a PC to game for well over a decade now, I know how to maintain a computer, and I'm more than able to keep a PC at well below standard "cool" temps.

Now - that being said, and I've repeated this SEVERAL times now. I can play Crysis on damn high settings, and not even remotely hit the same GPU temperature as I do while on Xsyon, let alone under 100% fan use..

Someone claims Xsyon hasn't revealed the "required system specs" yet here they are, sitting in the FAQ:


8.) What are the system requirements?
Windows (XP, Vista, Windows 7)
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 3Ghz (or similar)
RAM: 2GB
Video: 512 MB Video supporting Pixel Shader 2.0
Hard Drive: 10 GB
Of course we recommend the best system possible!
So - being that I have WELL over the required system specs (I'm running dual core 2.5ghz + 8800 GT OC'd) and I can play any other game out without touching even remotely the same GPU usage and temps, I'm left pointing the finger at Xsyon.
And no, the OC on my card is not the problem, my card runs at an average 60-70 while under heavy loads on other games, with maybe 50% fan..
My 8800GT runs at 80-90 under 100% fan on Xsyon - this is not right, no matter how you spin it.

Yes I have had problems with other games like original Mass Effect that took my 7950gt's heat up to 130c. Other graphics intensive games ran around 70-80. I guess I should have gone on EA forums, called everyone an idiot who was trying to help and explained my resume of 20 years computing meant I could dismiss all their suggestions as feeble attempts.

Instead I decided to use Google and research my problem. After reading people complaining about similar situation I resolved to fix it with a quality graphics card fan with good heat sinks. It worked and im still using the same outdated graphics card. People are not taking the time to answer questions for free because you deserve it, just keep that in mind when answering please next time when throwing out your derisive 'lols'.

zephar123
06-07-2010, 05:15 PM
One, thing interesting to note, I am judging this off of 4 people I know who have the game and the other people who have posted their video cards.

Ati seems to not get as hot as nvidia with this game. As only computer had any issues was my moms nvidia 6800GT which solution was getting rid of the very old graphics controller drivers she was running. I am currios if anyone has ATI cards that are over heating. Reason yes is to judge software relation as well ATI and nvidia really do read things differently alot of times.

Xsyon
06-07-2010, 05:31 PM
We do have a new graphics expert on the team (started a month and half ago), who is working on these issues starting with improving terrain rendering, then moving onto shadows and speed tree, which I don't think was implemented correctly. (The programmer who originally worked on these things is no longer working on Xsyon).

So far the revised terrain renderer alone has improved framerate by 30-50% in our recent tests, but it won't be finished for another week or two.

So for now, put some ice on your graphics card and in a few weeks we should start seeing the improvements. ;)

cbowsin
06-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Thanks for the update. B)

JCatano
06-07-2010, 05:44 PM
Sounds good, Xsyon.

cbowskin -

Are you "enlightened", yet? ;)

cbowsin
06-07-2010, 06:08 PM
JCatano wrote:

cbowsin - Are you "enlightened", yet? ;)

With what? You think all these machines are going to run artic cooler with these improvements? Some folks might be expecting a 20C drop. Perhaps their improvements might only generate a 2C decrease, we won't know until they do it. Same thing with memory leakage. Poorly written code could have massive memory leaks, but even with minimal memory leaks an application can still be a memory hog.

A few posts up I mentioned GPU heat comes from rendering and since Jooky was referring to optimizing rendering, I still feel I have a clue of what I am talking about. I do not know if the software code is optimized or if their programmers did a half-fast job at it because I don't have access to the code (even if I did, 3d programming is not my expertise). So let's say they optimize the code to the best of their ability but yours and other gamers machines still run hot, what then? Still software?

All I know is I can run my dust covered, with one broken case fan, PC all month long and still spend a whole day playing Xsyon. My PC is as stubborn as I am. That's it, that's all I got.

On a happier note, I just ordered a new fan, compressed air, and more memory. Thank you JCatano for making me check up on these things. :cheer:

Relandi
06-07-2010, 06:15 PM
Xsyon wrote:

We do have a new graphics expert on the team (started a month and half ago), who is working on these issues starting with improving terrain rendering, then moving onto shadows and speed tree, which I don't think was implemented correctly. (The programmer who originally worked on these things is no longer working on Xsyon).

So far the revised terrain renderer alone has improved framerate by 30-50% in our recent tests, but it won't be finished for another week or two.

So for now, put some ice on your graphics card and in a few weeks we should start seeing the improvements. ;)

Thanks you for letting us know this is indeed in your cross-hairs to fix.

To all the "it's your cooling" people .. ha, just ha.

zephar123
06-07-2010, 06:17 PM
cbowsin,

One interesting thing for sure, is nvidia seem to run hotter then ATI on this engine. Keep in mind that ATI and Nvidia have always had their own ways of doing things.

Further I think some been taking cbowsin wrong way. He is trying to think out every possibility of the situation. IN testing of this sort its not uncommon to have to have a programmer try out a dozen different video cards.

JCatano
06-07-2010, 06:30 PM
cbowsin -

You implied that we know nothing at all and it was a hardware issue on our end. Many of us have enough experience to know what the issue is, and it's quite obvious when many people are running in the 80's and 90's.

If you're ok with those temps on your GPU, then you'll be buying cards more often than the rest of us. :P

And it's not necessarily spec related. Not meeting the specs doesn't automatically cause your PC/GPU to overheat. My old GPU didn't meet DF requirements, but ran at 59-64 degrees. My current card runs at 65-72.

Cleaning up the graphics can do wonders for temps (just as it did in SWG beta).

cbowsin
06-07-2010, 07:32 PM
zephar123 wrote:

One interesting thing for sure, is nvidia seem to run hotter then ATI on this engine. Keep in mind that ATI and Nvidia have always had their own ways of doing things.

Thanks for being objective. If your curious I am running an ATI card. This one (http://www.powercolor.com/global/products_features.asp?id=75) in fact.

Relandi wrote:

To all the "it's your cooling" people .. ha, just ha.

If I am wrong then I am wrong, and I have no problem with that. I'm not always right. If I am wrong, then the issue is 100% software related and Notorious's new guy fixes everything and we all are happy. If I am right or partially right and the new guy only drops the degrees a little bit, what are you going to do then, go back to Global Agenda? Either way, I still benefit.

JCatano wrote:

You implied that we know nothing at all and it was a hardware issue on our end. Many of us have enough experience to know what the issue is, and it's quite obvious when many people are running in the 80's and 90's.

And it's not necessarily spec related. Not meeting the specs doesn't automatically cause your PC/GPU to overheat. My old GPU didn't meet DF requirements, but ran at 59-64 degrees. My current card runs at 65-72.

Cleaning up the graphics can do wonders for temps (just as it did in SWG beta).

I came into this with an open mind. It wasn't until I was told it was absolutely and completely 100% a software issue did I respond in absolute. I do the same thing on The Old Republic forums. You make an argument that X is the only way to go then I will fully support Y. That's just the way I discuss. You want to consider other possibilities than we'll find ourselves on the same page.

I don't like dealing in absolute. Especially when I only have access to 50% of the problem. In my RL job, I am an advanced support technician with 5 years experience and a degree in programming for a software company, so there I have the luxury of viewing both sides of an issue, those sides being the end-user and the developer. Here, not so much. I can only fix the problem as an end-user with Xsyon. Which for the most part is what I was doing since none of us have access to the code to program it ourselves. I suppose in my experience I've encountered more issues of end-users blaming software only to find out it is in fact an end-user issue. Plus the only time I had ever experienced overheating problems myself with gaming was with my own cooling.

Perhaps it is not a spec issue. 'Can U Run It' says I can't run Global Agenda and I ran it fine. But what if the new guy optimizes the code but your GPU still runs to hot, what are you going to do? What can you do, other than not play the game?

Maybe I just suck balls and you all can laugh as I go through video card after video card but this is my second PC since 2002 and I built this in 2008 so I think I have another 4 years to go. Without any maintenance this baby been running good for past 2 years. So if getting a new PC every 6 years is laughable, then laugh away. I don't care.

JCatano
06-07-2010, 08:22 PM
cbowsin wrote:

zephar123 wrote:

One interesting thing for sure, is nvidia seem to run hotter then ATI on this engine. Keep in mind that ATI and Nvidia have always had their own ways of doing things.

Thanks for being objective. If your curious I am running an ATI card. This one (http://www.powercolor.com/global/products_features.asp?id=75) in fact.

Relandi wrote:

To all the "it's your cooling" people .. ha, just ha.

If I am wrong then I am wrong, and I have no problem with that. I'm not always right. If I am wrong, then the issue is 100% software related and Notorious's new guy fixes everything and we all are happy. If I am right or partially right and the new guy only drops the degrees a little bit, what are you going to do then, go back to Global Agenda? Either way, I still benefit.

JCatano wrote:

You implied that we know nothing at all and it was a hardware issue on our end. Many of us have enough experience to know what the issue is, and it's quite obvious when many people are running in the 80's and 90's.

And it's not necessarily spec related. Not meeting the specs doesn't automatically cause your PC/GPU to overheat. My old GPU didn't meet DF requirements, but ran at 59-64 degrees. My current card runs at 65-72.

Cleaning up the graphics can do wonders for temps (just as it did in SWG beta).

I came into this with an open mind. It wasn't until I was told it was absolutely and completely 100% a software issue did I respond in absolute. I do the same thing on The Old Republic forums. You make an argument that X is the only way to go then I will fully support Y. That's just the way I discuss. You want to consider other possibilities than we'll find ourselves on the same page.

I don't like dealing in absolute. Especially when I only have access to 50% of the problem. In my RL job, I am an advanced support technician with 5 years experience and a degree in programming for a software company, so there I have the luxury of viewing both sides of an issue, those sides being the end-user and the developer. Here, not so much. I can only fix the problem as an end-user with Xsyon. Which for the most part is what I was doing since none of us have access to the code to program it ourselves. I suppose in my experience I've encountered more issues of end-users blaming software only to find out it is in fact an end-user issue. Plus the only time I had ever experienced overheating problems myself with gaming was with my own cooling.

Perhaps it is not a spec issue. 'Can U Run It' says I can't run Global Agenda and I ran it fine. But what if the new guy optimizes the code but your GPU still runs to hot, what are you going to do? What can you do, other than not play the game?

Maybe I just suck balls and you all can laugh as I go through video card after video card but this is my second PC since 2002 and I built this in 2008 so I think I have another 4 years to go. Without any maintenance this baby been running good for past 2 years. So if getting a new PC every 6 years is laughable, then laugh away. I don't care.

No game should be running in the 80's and 90's when a person has good airflow and well placed fans (a power-eater would be an exception... sort of), especially at 100% fan speed. My temps are actually "ok". Low to mid 70's with tree detail at 320m and default speed (30'ish %), but that's still over what it should be considering the graphics. Adjusting tree detail to 960m should not raise it to 79C. I assume Jordi's Speedtree comment could be related to a fix for that. We don't need to be a "programmer" to realize that there needs to be optimization, either. As far as you know, you could be talking to someone with more experience than you.

And having lower than required specs won't make you run hot. I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.

If they can't fix it, I'll tell them they suck at optimization and cancel.

That work for ya?

:)

Cunk
06-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Welp, I was this close to spending money I can't afford on a shiny new video card. Glad to see NG is aware of this though. I guess I can squeeze some more life out of my current 8800GTS.

cbowsin wrote:

And mine runs 80-90 under 50% fan speed. It is a problem with your card or your cooling.
This seems odd to me. This would imply that your card is designed to run around that temperature on average. Which seems outrageous to me but maybe some are just designed to be that hot. Unless your fan settings got messed with.