What Is Combat Like?

[mrcalhou]

How are the combat mechanics for this game? I heard that it was transitioned to being shooter style combat. Is the hit dedication and behind the scenes calculations synced up like they would be for, say, Borderlands, Fallout 3, Red Dead Redemption, and so on? Where melee range is realistic and if you move out of range the attack misses?

For instance, I tried playing Fallen Earth, but the chickens were hitting me with their melee attacks when I was many feet away from them. Same thing with Final Fantasy XIV; even if I move out of range I still get smacked because the calculations were all done before the animations went off.

Oh, I also want to ask about the physics. I know physics require more calculations, which requires more system resources and latency is always an issue with real-time positional combat in an online game, but are the physics of movement realistic? I'll use another game as an example again. In Darkfall it's difficult, though not impossible, to predict player and mob movement because there is no inertia/momentum (forgive me guys, I'm a Chemistry/Biology teacher so I know I'm misusing the physics terms). So I was wondering if this game has more realistic, and intuitive, combat than, say any MMO that I can think of.

[mrcalhou]

No one?

[tredo]

a pre order would answer all your questions, but as far as behind the scenes numbers and calculations, that is not something that is put out in common knowledge anywhere. Least not what I can find. I can say that combat is a lot of fun and not like those other games you mentioned.

[JCatano]

Well...

Combat is definitely not a strength of Xsyon at this point. It needs work.

There are some Youtube videos of it.

[Derek]

I'd say in it's current state that is somewhere between Fallen Earth and Darkfall without ranged attacks. In short, it feels very sluggish and laggy. It does have promise though, just needs a lot of TLC.

The devs have stated that they are focusing on combat mechanics now that the server move is over with. The incoming patches are suppose to have combat animations added. I'm not sure when/if ranged attacks will be in game. But, I highly doubt they will release the game with combat in its current state.

[Virtus]

curious...have you tested combat since the big update? There were a few tweaks to it.

As for those vids, they are a few months old and out of date. Can't gauge the current combat with those.

[mrcalhou]

Tredo, I know a preorder would give me the means to answer the question on my own, but preordering costs money and while I'm really interested in this game because of the other features, I don't want to waste my money if the combat doesn't suit me.

Derek, is melee range realistic-y like it is in Darkfall or is it more along the lines of attack goes off and you still get hit even if you move out of range of the animation like in Fallen Earth? And is there movement inertia? What I mean by this is can things just turn by rotating on their foot even at a run, or do they need to slow down or run in a arc (more like in real life)?

Thanks everyone for helping me out with this; I really appreciate it!

[Saorlan]

Virtus wrote:

curious...have you tested combat since the big update? There were a few tweaks to it.

As for those vids, they are a few months old and out of date. Can't gauge the current combat with those.

It is not really any different Virtus and does need a lot more work. At the moment is below Roma Victor standard. I do have high standards though as have been playing Mortal Online and when it is good it is really good in that game. Xyson combat lacks depth, all too much of a click fest.

[Virtus]

could you make suggestions please, preferably in the tweaks section so it doesn't get lost in here. A lot of people have said they don't care for it, but I think it's not quiet clear what needs changing and what you guys want to see.

Combat will always be tweaked until it feels right.

[REVKhA]

Hack and Slash , click mashing , with minimal sound and visual feedback. There is no blood, gore , particles or anything. It needs major polishing and overhaul. There is nothing but melee combat , and the ranges have barely been tested. There is no ragdoll.

[Derek]

I will try and right something constructive in the tweaks section. However, I believe fraps examples of this games melee vs. other games such as darkfall would best serve the devs in illustrating what is missing. I don't want a Darkfall clone of the melee system but I do want it to be at least that good.

If someone has fraps all set up on their computer, please post something like this in the tweaks section. Thanks :)

[Xsyon]

We've been constantly changing the combat system and will continue to do so to improve it.

Since players posted those combat videos on YouTube we've made many changes:

The original system was not implemented correctly so armor was not having the proper effect. Now it does.

We fixed targeting of individual body parts so that what you are targeting makes a difference.

We implemented the actual 'hit' to occur at the end of swings so that you can better anticipate and avoid attacks.

We adjusted combat timing based on the ping rate of individual players to better synchronize attacks.

We added stationary attacks versus moving attacks. Stationary attacks will deliver more damage (this will be finished soon).

We added player vs player collision so that players can't run through each other.

A major problem has been performance, which we greatly improved this week. With poor framerate, collision was breaking down and it's hard to time attacks so players end up just clicking away instead of timing and targetting attacks and using the dodge and block commands that we've implemented.

It does still need some work. Right now we're focused on getting the rest of the features out and then we'll spend more time on combat again.

[mrcalhou]

Xsyon, I really appreciate that you commented on my thread and what you have stated about the combat has me very excited!

[astronomicat]

are there many animals yet in game? I'm running around secret cove looking for someone or something to try the combat tweaks on.
Thanks!

[Xsyon]

There are about 2000 critters running around right now, so you should be able to find something to kill. :)

[Deacon]

yeah, animals in Xsyon dont just spawn in a spot and stay...

I've always encountered critters when traveling any distance...last time I tried to travel from west side of lake to north along the frontage road...I got ganked by a herd of mule deer LOL...it was fun...but i died :P

[astronomicat]

sweet, just found a baby bear (or it found me rather). Combat felt great! I didn't try it before the patches but it was smooth and animations looked good. I killed the bear so maybe I'm biased. :P Can't wait to test more, keep up the good work!

[Kinslayer]

Virtus let me kick his ass in the interest of doing an up to date video of combat. Unfortunately it went a bit dark after I compressed it, cos it was night, but you should still be able to see it okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJPTd7S-lxg

[mrcalhou]

Kinslayer, thank you so much for posting that video! The combat looks good to me. I think they could make the collision detection a bit better, but the animations looked great and fluid.

Was that rubberbanding because of lag?

[Kinslayer]

Nps, I dont mind the combat either. Perhaps stamina should come into it a bit more than it currently does. The collision could be better, it clips you to the side when colliding, I think it should clip you back slightly, as clipping to the side allows you to still pass. We also suspected that occasionally, dodging eliminated the collision detection,and allowed me to pass through Virtus.

Theres no rubberbanding to my knowledge. Are you sure it isnt lag on the video download?

Also, if anyone is watching the video, be sure to select the highest quality, it makes a huge difference. Just pause it until its downloaded, to save waiting for it to stream.

Also, check out the sticky thread "official Xsyon videos", I just put up a heap of others I have made in the past month or so.

[Virtus]

I did notice what appeared to be rubber banding but I think it was just lag.

As I was fighting him I did not notice any rubber banding or land. It could of been due to the fact that he was running fraps maybe.

[Kinslayer]

Virtus wrote:

I did notice what appeared to be rubber banding but I think it was just lag.

As I was fighting him I did not notice any rubber banding or land. It could of been due to the fact that he was running fraps maybe.Possibly, cant say I noticed it tbh. But with fraps running I was getting 50+fps still, its just my ping that hurts a little at 350-400ms. I think it was 380ms for most of that fight.

[JCatano]

Kinslayer wrote:

Virtus let me kick his ass in the interest of doing an up to date video of combat. Unfortunately it went a bit dark after I compressed it, cos it was night, but you should still be able to see it okay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJPTd7S-lxg

Xsyon combat is very clunky and feels disengaged.

I'd love it to be like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrzjMjwBbGU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG0YM35goSE

I'd even take Darkfall's system over Xsyon's. I'm not a fan of all the bunnyhopping and spazzy melee sprinting, but at least the mechanics are very smooth.

[Virtus]

i think part of the problem with the current combat is that it requires the target to be highlighted in order to do damage to it. In other words a wild swing from one side to the other would not be detected if the target wasn't selected.

Something else I just noted, these are swords. In Xsyon currently they are really close range weapons, hatchets and knives.

Question: In M&B does if you swing and a friendly is also in the strike zone of the blade as well as the enemy will they both get hit?

[gremrod]

Virtus wrote:

i think part of the problem with the current combat is that it requires the target to be highlighted in order to do damage to it. In other words a wild swing from one side to the other would not be detected if the target wasn't selected.

Something else I just noted, these are swords. In Xsyon currently they are really close range weapons, hatchets and knives.

Question: In M&B does if you swing and a friendly is also in the strike zone of the blade as well as the enemy will they both get hit?

Yes, friendlies in M&B do get hit when in range on the wing. At least I think I remember seeing friendly fire.

[Virtus]

so, you don't have to have a cursor over anyone or select them? your swing area is just detected?

[gremrod]

Virtus wrote:

so, you don't have to have a cursor over anyone or select them? your swing area is just detected?

M&B melee doesn't have a reticle but the bows do.

[Kuroi]

Virtus wrote:

so, you don't have to have a cursor over anyone or select them? your swing area is just detected?yeah just like Mortal online, if you want to hit A that is in front of you but there is also B on your right, you will hit B if swinging from right

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2338/immaginepw.jpg

[Virtus]

sounds like i need to check m&b more then darkfall then.

[Kinslayer]

Yeh, I would be checking M&B. I havent played Darkfall in ages, but I think Mortal Online combat surpasses Darkfall too. Youre welcome to borrow my account if you want to sub it :P

[Spitfire5]

I iz use your DF account for my farming?

[Kinslayer]

My DF account? I lost the password, and the bastards wont help me because my email has changed, and I cant tell them the credit card that was used to buy the account. So the account is in limbo with a whole hell of alot of shit in the bank.