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Xx1327
03-08-2010, 10:59 PM
jailing a player or capturing them to be sacrificed to an animal would be extremely fun.

/discuss

Teotwauki
03-08-2010, 11:16 PM
I've done it before, but mainly for RP reasons, I don't like the idea in Xsyon though. What if your buddies don't bust you out or the next ritual sacrifice isn't till the next full moon :P

Leiros
03-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Xx1327 wrote:

jailing a player or capturing them to be sacrificed to an animal would be extremely fun.

/discuss

I was just thinking about something similar to this earlier today. I was thinking that it would be cool if "evil" players were required to perform human sacrifices of other players during their religious ceremonies to appease the gods.

However, I realize that religion isn't going to be in the game until after the Prelude. Regardless it still sounds like a cool idea.

As for jails, it might be cool to be able to capture another player and jail them for something like 10-15 minutes. I don't think that anything longer than this would work. Also, if someone is going to be captured, they should be given the option of a)resisting arrest and dying/being looted or b) going to jail/becoming a prisoner for a short time and possibly not losing as much stuff.

This could also add to the bounty system and give villages more interesting ways to administer justice.

I like it! :side:

Xx1327
03-08-2010, 11:26 PM
we could find ways to make it balanced of course

make it possible for the jailed person to escape, have different levels of quality for a jail prison or constraint

and a 10-15+ min sentences could equal days in game so that could suffice for the punishments if players break tribe laws

Virtus
03-09-2010, 01:15 AM
In the future there may be a capture system... but if it is to come it will be a long way off.

Palo god
03-09-2010, 01:18 AM
Virtus wrote:

In the future there may be a capture system... but if it is to come it will be a long way off.

Why not tie it into a punishment game mechanic for reds? Give us a break out option though if you do implement it.

Stncold
03-09-2010, 03:01 AM
Capture systems in MP games/MMOs are always an interesting mechanic but extremely hard to pull off because somebody getting taken prisoner and stuck somewhere for a period almost always leads to either ragequitting or the jailed person alt abusing in an attempt to get out.

Rohan's jail system was pretty cool, although kind of abuseable.

Seeing player run events between friendly or rival tribes where one person either volunteers or is chosen as the hostage and then stuck in the other sides town and giving their team a time limit to break them out would be awesome. I remember participating in a few of these in UO and they were fun.

Problem is that hopefully the 'hostage' would need to be honorable enough to not report enemy positions on ventrilo or tribe chat.

JCatano
03-09-2010, 03:10 AM
Yes, can I please spend some of my gametime stuck in a cell?

If you're ok with a jail idea, then you are ok with a hostage idea.

:dry:

Lily
03-09-2010, 03:11 AM
Honourable hostage? What's the point in that? Any enemy within your base must be treated as such and presumed to be passing on information.

aliksteel
03-09-2010, 03:13 AM
Just what I all was wanted to do, To log in and sit in a jail!!! Sounds fun to me.
And yeah, That would be sarcasm :blink:

Stncold
03-09-2010, 03:21 AM
Lily wrote:

Honourable hostage? What's the point in that? Any enemy within your base must be treated as such and presumed to be passing on information.

I said "friendly/rival" tribes for what I was particularly talking about. They aren't exactly an enemy, it's just in fun. It wouldn't be as fun if they passed on information, but depending on how long it would take to build a wall or something around them, that might be negateable.

Now for an actual enemy, you're expected to repeatedly beat them into unconsciousness or stick them somewhere so they can't see anything.

lazyfroguk
03-09-2010, 06:01 AM
jail? actually making players sit and do nothing when they are trying to play this game? sorry guys - terrible idea.

Redus
03-09-2010, 06:11 AM
lazyfroguk wrote:

jail? actually making players sit and do nothing when they are trying to play this game? sorry guys - terrible idea.

I have to agree. It sound like a bad idea and I do not want to sit around for 15 minutes doing nothing.

Leiros
03-09-2010, 12:06 PM
Redus wrote:

lazyfroguk wrote:

jail? actually making players sit and do nothing when they are trying to play this game? sorry guys - terrible idea.

I have to agree. It sound like a bad idea and I do not want to sit around for 15 minutes doing nothing.

That's why I think it would be cool to have the option of either fighting and being killed/full looted, or choosing to go to jail and sit for 10-15 minutes and not lose your stuff. I wouldn't mind sitting in a jail for 10 minutes if I know that I'll have my gear when I get out. It'll probably take you longer than that to collect the resources and craft the items that were looted anyway.

Plus that would be when I go take a bio break, get food etc. in RL.

JCatano
03-09-2010, 12:17 PM
Virtus wrote:

In the future there may be a capture system... but if it is to come it will be a long way off.

So, in other words... It will never happen. I support this decision and Xsyon will be happy "capture" was never coded into the game.

Pwnzer McDoogle: "Hey man! I just logged in. Let's go grind some mobs. I can only play for about an hour."

Dingle Snickletide: "Can't, dude. I'm stuck in jail for 15 minutes."

Fun.

Redus
03-09-2010, 01:26 PM
Leiros wrote:

Redus wrote:

lazyfroguk wrote:

jail? actually making players sit and do nothing when they are trying to play this game? sorry guys - terrible idea.

I have to agree. It sound like a bad idea and I do not want to sit around for 15 minutes doing nothing.

That's why I think it would be cool to have the option of either fighting and being killed/full looted, or choosing to go to jail and sit for 10-15 minutes and not lose your stuff. I wouldn't mind sitting in a jail for 10 minutes if I know that I'll have my gear when I get out. It'll probably take you longer than that to collect the resources and craft the items that were looted anyway.

Plus that would be when I go take a bio break, get food etc. in RL.

Then what use would capturing an enemy be? What would the enemy gain from it? There should be a benefit from taking an prison for the whole tribe.

Then people need to make a decision. Help an enemy tribe get something, or lose a few/all items you carry.

Leiros
03-09-2010, 10:38 PM
Redus wrote:

Then what use would capturing an enemy be? What would the enemy gain from it? There should be a benefit from taking an prison for the whole tribe.

Then people need to make a decision. Help an enemy tribe get something, or lose a few/all items you carry.

Agreed. Unless there's some kind of merit to having prisoners it would seem pointless to have jails. Maybe they could pay bail or gain a bonus like a ransom or something? I dunno, it's a cool concept but it would require a lot more planning to be effective.

Another factor to consider is the length of respawn time in PvP... if the respawn time is shorter than the jail sentence I could see taking prisoners as being an effective strategy in PvP village raids etc.. By taking prisoners, you could effectively limit the number of people attacking your village for a brief time. Depending on the pace of the PvP, this could make a huge difference in battle.

joexxxz
06-08-2010, 02:58 AM
Jails are actually a good idea. For example let say player "A" is attacking a certain tribe allot. And lets say player "A" did so much damage to that tribe. Let say he killed 4/10 total tribe members. Looted their stuff and so on,. After certain damage/kills to the tribe,the tribe then has a right to put that person in prison when cought by the tribe or bounty hunters, or make that player pay the bail out. I mean the person shouldn't go to jail on the first affense.

Like in EVE game, if you are the aggressor then u got like 30 min cool off time. Same here, if u are the aggressor then u can be jailed unless your cool off time passed.

Nails
06-08-2010, 03:16 AM
A ransom idea could work, where rather than killin someone you could capture them and take them back to the jail in the village. Each time a player is captured his random cost increases. When a player is captured he respawns back at his tribes totem but all his skills take a penalty until he pays his ransom to whichever tribe/player captured him. that way there's no waiting around sitting in a cell but there would be some point to capturing players as I know I wouldn't want a penelty (or muliple penalties) effecting all my stats, so I'd want to pay the ransom off asap.

Baldur
06-08-2010, 07:46 AM
LOG INTO JAIL.

GO OUTSIDE FOR A WALK.

CrazyMoe
06-26-2010, 05:47 AM
If you add jails to the game then make jail fun for the player. Add minigames where you can work out to improve your character's physical stats, gamble with other prisoners, craft improvised weapons to start a prison-gang war or to try to break out, etc...

REVKhA
06-26-2010, 08:07 AM
Jails are great as long as :

1: can be raided
2: can escape in a way or another
3: can perhaps mine and prosper still.

LuckyTryst
07-01-2010, 08:49 AM
How did Rohan's jail system work?

Nick2279
07-22-2010, 06:30 AM
Jails seem to be of little importance in the long run. It just seems like a crapy way for good players to loot a evil player. Wouldnt it be much more easy to just kill him ??? The only way that i can think of to make jails truly effective for the jailers (who have to build them and waste resources) and the jailees (who have to be punished for being there) is to create a zone that slowly drains your skills temporarily (think of stacking rez sick from WoW). Now an agreement can be reached between the 2 tribes for either a prisoner transfer or a simple money/resource transaction. Now the jailee can also escape at any time he wants but the longer he takes the more his stats will be reduced temorarily. In order to escape the prisoner must be proficient in lock picking, which will not be a very common skill to learn. In the cell various lock picking tools will spawn, such as straws, a feather,tiny bone. The guard will then have to enter the cell and remove these at which time the prisoner can try and overpower the guard, if the prisoner wins he gets freedom out of the jail cell, but he will still be efectivly stuck in the town. As soon as he is out of the jail cell his stats would return back to regular at a hightend rate then when they ticked down say like x10 as fast. when out of the cell he should be on a cool down (flashing red name) for a set duration say 10 minutes whitch he has to use to either hide in the town he is in or escape. Should the counter tick down the prisoner would then simply become an undesireable in that town and get teleported to the front gate (out of reach of most guards and probably escape soon to follow).

aliksteel
07-23-2010, 08:52 AM
Here is my take on it.

I have a feeling that one or two of my tribe mates may have a little devil in them. The Hopi Tribe will be going for the good faction of the game, But you can't kick people from the Tribe on a feeling, Nor do I wish to. As I said it's just a feeling and for the most part I think they are good. I also have a feeling that some of you othere tribes may have the same problem as well.

Let's pretend for a minute that the game is LIVE and the prelude is over and the safety nets are gone. We have a lot more room in-game. From what I can tell, This game want's it to feel very real and your not always going to just run out into the woods and kill you a grizzly bear. I think there may be some hunting around to find yourself a bear. Say there is two tribes, They may even be frinds. But they send out a hunting party each to go kill, skin, and gut the bear. As one hunting party finds a bear in a clearing and starts to move to it, The othere hunting party runs into the clearing and starts killing the bear. Well I know this could not happen in a MMO, But let's say that this hunting party feels as if the othere hunting party is loot stealing there bear. Funny I know, But we are pretending. So with out doing much thinking they run in and with the othere hunting party all ready hurt from fighting the bear. They kill them, or knock them out, are what ever we will be able to do.

Now let's say one of the members of the hunting party that help kill the othere hunting party has been bad a few to many times and this last act will change his faction. But a warning window pops up letting him/her know that they will change faction unless they go to jail to pay for there (for lack of a better word) sin. The player has a chance to go to jail or change faction and if I understand right, Will be removed from there tribe because there faction does not match up any more.

My thought would be that each tribe would able to build there on jail, And if the person who was killed are what ever, And is part of a tribe that has a jail in there tribe. Then and only then does the choice to go to jail pop up. Now here is the cherry on top. To get out of jail, Your tribe must pay the othere tribe a fine.

You can also flip flop this around a little bit, And it can work with evil tribes as well. When members of a bad tribe that has a jail. Go out killing and looting, Can also kidnap and ransom. In this case killers and victim would have to agree to the ransom. You could have a pop up msg at the point of death. This would give the evil players a guarantee set in-game price for ransom to be made, Or What's behide door numer two? Who knows it could be a pot of gold are a booby prize on there victim.

Nick2279
07-23-2010, 10:39 AM
I love it until the part about the pay repercusions part to get out of jail. Insteed i think they should just have to spend LONG ammounts of time in jail like hours to improve their standings. This would effectivly slow down PK a lot and it would make gangfests undesireable as 5 or 6 ppl are not gona all want to get a standings reduction for the loot of 1 person.

JCatano
07-23-2010, 02:03 PM
Nick2279 wrote:

I love it until the part about the pay repercusions part to get out of jail. Insteed i think they should just have to spend LONG ammounts of time in jail like hours to improve their standings. This would effectivly slow down PK a lot and it would make gangfests undesireable as 5 or 6 ppl are not gona all want to get a standings reduction for the loot of 1 person.

Can I PK you once which forces a lock on your account login for hours? I mean... You're dead and all... You need time to wait for someone to invent medical resurrection, ya know.

kiwibird
07-24-2010, 02:24 AM
I've been thinking over this whole jail thing... and simply put... I don't like it.

For me a jail would need to be a building and as pictured here would need space and time and all that to keep it going. Then there are features that you may or may not want.

But I agree, some form of a jail like structure is needed - but we can't tell what sort of structures are in game, will be in game or the like.

For example, will buildings come in certain sizes that only have "options" or can you open a door enter and look inside this building while storing other objects in there.

If you can open the door and enter it, would it be possible to customise the structure. Have no windows - 1 window here there and in the corner... walls here there and here, with two doors at the ends....

If you can build and customise the structure, I don't see why a jail has to be actually created. Simply have a player that has good lock smithing and build a lock. Make it that you can't lockpick your own locks (As you know the combination to such locks) and well you have the ability to lock someone in a structure, that is where you want it, isn't special (so we know to look for that sort of structure) and is customisable to met the needs of the tribe.

The exception to all this, is anything to GM jails... where I would suggest something special. If not a different world ;)

joexxxz
07-24-2010, 10:22 AM
Let say player "A" and player "B" . Player "A" has a rating of aggression 7 (0-10), and player "B" has a rating of aggression of 0.
Then if player "B" wins a battle with player "A", then player "B" should have an option at the end of the battle to cuff player "A" with a certain key, for a certain amount of time. When the time expires, the cuffs disappears automaticlly. And player "A" is free to go :cheer:

Largion
07-25-2010, 08:00 AM
joexxxz wrote:

Let say player "A" and player "B" . Player "A" has a rating of aggression 7 (0-10), and player "B" has a rating of aggression of 0.
Then if player "B" wins a battle with player "A", then player "B" should have an option at the end of the battle to cuff player "A" with a certain key, for a certain amount of time. When the time expires, the cuffs disappears automaticlly. And player "A" is free to go :cheer:

Then I would just have to commit suicide when I lost to someone. There is no way I would play a game that forced me to run around in cuffs.

joexxxz
07-25-2010, 09:01 AM
Largion wrote:

joexxxz wrote:

Let say player "A" and player "B" . Player "A" has a rating of aggression 7 (0-10), and player "B" has a rating of aggression of 0.
Then if player "B" wins a battle with player "A", then player "B" should have an option at the end of the battle to cuff player "A" with a certain key, for a certain amount of time. When the time expires, the cuffs disappears automaticlly. And player "A" is free to go :cheer:

Then I would just have to commit suicide when I lost to someone. There is no way I would play a game that forced me to run around in cuffs.

Well, to bad. Then don't attack player "B". And u wont run around in cuffs ;)

Well, there have to be a balance between crafters and PKers. U cant just let someone attack u over and over again without a consequence. But if player "A" is good in combat, then he/she will get what they wanted :)

And then when player "A" is unconscious and in cuffs, then player "B" should have the ability to drag player "A" in to the prison or not.

Paradox
07-25-2010, 09:20 AM
I think that evil players will have to spawn at their own city. That will give them a ‘time out’ before returning to the battle. Isn’t that accomplishing the same thing?

joexxxz
07-25-2010, 09:31 AM
Paradox wrote:

I think that evil players will have to spawn at their own city. That will give them a ‘time out’ before returning to the battle. Isn’t that accomplishing the same thing?

What if the location of evil player is close to your tribe?

But if the evil player is in jail, you could kill him to unconsciousness over and over again. :woohoo:

Paradox
07-25-2010, 10:05 AM
Although I would love to impose Shinra justice on some, I don’t think jails will be very popular. I know I wouldn’t like to be locked in an evil tribes jail and unable to play the game.

joexxxz
07-25-2010, 10:17 AM
Paradox wrote:

Although I would love to impose Shinra justice on some, I don’t think jails will be very popular. I know I wouldn’t like to be locked in an evil tribes jail and unable to play the game.

Only the aggressor will have a chance to be locked, not a good player.. So Paradox you have no worries...
;)

Paradox
07-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Lol, are you saying I am not aggressive enough? You …****….!!!!


:P



joexxxz wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Although I would love to impose Shinra justice on some, I don’t think jails will be very popular. I know I wouldn’t like to be locked in an evil tribes jail and unable to play the game.

Only the aggressor will have a chance to be locked, not a good player.. So Paradox you have no worries...
;)

joexxxz
07-25-2010, 10:43 AM
Haha. I can see now. You are!!! :S

Largion
07-26-2010, 08:23 AM
joexxxz wrote:

Largion wrote:

joexxxz wrote:

Let say player "A" and player "B" . Player "A" has a rating of aggression 7 (0-10), and player "B" has a rating of aggression of 0.
Then if player "B" wins a battle with player "A", then player "B" should have an option at the end of the battle to cuff player "A" with a certain key, for a certain amount of time. When the time expires, the cuffs disappears automaticlly. And player "A" is free to go :cheer:

Then I would just have to commit suicide when I lost to someone. There is no way I would play a game that forced me to run around in cuffs.

Well, to bad. Then don't attack player "B". And u wont run around in cuffs ;)


He and his 3 friends jumped infront of me when I was killing a mob! :laugh:

No but Why not just make a UO system where your ffa if you play pk char? And not like DF where you can go back to normal in 10 sec but where you get red you stay red for a long time.

Ignominus
07-26-2010, 12:49 PM
I think it is important to separate jail as a RP element from jail as a method punish the bad ol RPK.

Jail as a RP element can work with no game mechanics at all, although I could see an opt in hostage system for tribal warfare.

Adding mechanics that allow players to judge and punish other players sounds like a bad idea to me. Anything that takes away someone's paid playtime should only be dished out by GM's for crimes against the game, otherwise these same tools will end up as another form of griefing.

Nick2279
07-26-2010, 12:58 PM
Ignominus wrote:

I think it is important to separate jail as a RP element from jail as a method punish the bad ol RPK.

Jail as a RP element can work with no game mechanics at all, although I could see an opt in hostage system for tribal warfare.

Adding mechanics that allow players to judge and punish other players sounds like a bad idea to me. Anything that takes away someone's paid playtime should only be dished out by GM's for crimes against the game, otherwise these same tools will end up as another form of griefing.

But dude think about jails will prob only be used as punishment agsint only PKers and such other people that comit crimes of similar magnitude. They know ahed of time the result of their actions. I think its fair, Evil tribes PK and pilage, Good tribes Jail and Ransom, Neutral Tribes can Jail and Execute(upon which time they take a small staning loss, ie if they execute to much they become Evil). Any player in a evil tribe should be smart enough to be able to PK and not get caught which may be hard considering that there is a very high lvl of good tribes as oposed to evil.

Ignominus
07-26-2010, 02:52 PM
so pvp is a crime? What exactly would be the in game definition of "evil" that would allow someone to jail another player? If evil=red, will tribal warfare result in turning red when fighting your enemies? If someone is harassing you and stealing from you or destroying your property, are you evil for killing them? I haven't seen much combat yet, but will people be able to jump in front of a swing or into an aoe (future magic?) and send you to jail?

Jadzia
07-26-2010, 04:14 PM
Ignominus wrote:

so pvp is a crime? What exactly would be the in game definition of "evil" that would allow someone to jail another player? If evil=red, will tribal warfare result in turning red when fighting your enemies? If someone is harassing you and stealing from you or destroying your property, are you evil for killing them? I haven't seen much combat yet, but will people be able to jump in front of a swing or into an aoe (future magic?) and send you to jail?

I recommend this thread, it gives a lot of information about good, evil and neutral tribes and consequences.
http://xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions#232
The description of the tribal conflicts seems to suggest that killing a member of an enemy tribe won't turn you evil.

About stealing:
Xsyon wrote:


Ground resources, trees and later mines and farms within a tribe's radius of influence will be accessible only to tribe members or allies with permission. Others will be flagged as stealing if they gather resources without permission.
People can only steal resources, stealing from players or destroying their property is not possible during Prelude.

If I understand correctly than an accidental attack won't turn you evil, you have to kill the other person, not enough to hit him. And a good or neutral player probably won't try to trick you into turning red, if an evil player tries it then he will fail, you can kill evil ones without turning evil youryself.