Xsyon...a sandboxdream come true...but...

[naughty]

it needs more work. to be honest the combatsystem is horrible and a real sandbox mmo needs beside of crafting, exploring and socializing open pvp with a nice combatsystem.
for the people who hates open pvp in xsyon: why dont you play minecraft?

i need the thrill in a sandboxgame to be killed everytime everywhere, its the spice in xsyon. sure, after release eveybody needs first to build up his village/kingdom, but after that i wish to have territorial conflicts, politics between villages and tribes, thats the longterm motivation to play this game.

the animations need a little bit more love too, for example it looks really weird when u sprint.

i hope the devs dont forget the pvper in xysion, a good sandbox needs it.

cya ingame :)

[tredo]

i need the thrill in a sandboxgame to be killed everytime everywhere, its the spice in xsyon. sure, after release eveybody needs first to build up his village/kingdom, but after that i wish to have territorial conflicts, politics between villages and tribes, thats the longterm motivation to play this game.

It will have all this, and there is a combat system relook going on right now actually. Look for changes in the combat system in the future.

[aliksteel]

Don't think any of us hate PvP, We just don't want PvP to be what the world is based off of.

[yoori]

Combat system needs some love and it will get it(hopfuly soon). Most of the community is fine with open PvP("carebears" included), penalties are severe enough to prevent mindless killing and we have ways to guard ourselves from PK'ers that'll choose "the dark side". I sure good aligned tribes will form aliances and guard their lands. Also bounty hunting communities are forming aleady.

World without conflict and politics would be boring especially when content is player made. I just hope it won't turn out to be a gankfest couse that will drive away more peaceful minded part of the community and high quality items might be hard to get.
So keep that in mind "evildoers".

[naughty]

it would be really awesome if we would have a couple of bad people (reds, PK) and the counterpart some good guys (blue, anti-pk) who are fighting each other as it was in ultima online.

[naughty]

Combat system needs some love and it will get it(hopfuly soon). Most of the community is fine with open PvP("carebears" included), penalties are severe enough to prevent mindless killing and we have ways to guard ourselves from PK'ers that'll choose "the dark side". I sure good aligned tribes will form aliances and guard their lands. Also bounty hunting communities are forming aleady.

World without conflict and politics would be boring especially when content is player made. I just hope it won't turn out to be a gankfest couse that will drive away more peaceful minded part of the community and high quality items might be hard to get.
So keep that in mind "evildoers".

exactly, thats my point of view ;)

[tredo]

Xsyon himself has stated that "ganking" and "griefing" will be dealt with severely, it is not the heart of the game for it to be played that way. Open pvp is one thing, but ruining the game for others is another. Rest assured the open pvp here will be a good thing. I think it will be unlike any other sandbox pvp style, however, only time will tell.

[dfend]

I agree with naughty, PvP is a very important factor of a game and usually is the icing on the cake. Something that keeps players motivated for a long time and also adds a bit of a thrill. It has worked very well in other games and I am certain it will work well for Xsyon.

I can understand the need for safe zones and I believe they are okay as long as there are not too many of them. Having every tribe controlled area in the world being a safe zone for everybody is an example of too many safe zones in my opinion, especially since one can drop a tribe instantly almost anywhere without the need for any resources or skills.

If players of tribe A can be attacked anywhere when tribe B declares war on tribe A, thats okayish for now tho. And removing safe zones after half a year+ will be nice but thats such a long time for a game. I dont see the need for safe zones that long. Imho 2-3 months would suffice.

Looking forward to territorial conflicts and raiding parties. After all, this is society reforming after an apocalypse. Don't expect everybody to hold hands and sing along.

[Vadio]

Hum maybe all need :
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/01/06/massively-exclusive-jordi-grau-davis-answers-our-xsyon-question/

[naughty]

thanks for the link, very interesting

[TheMap]

-----not another thread about pvp

[aliksteel]

:pGotta keep it fresh:D

[Otter]

I'm far from opposed to PvP but I don't want this game to be based completely on PvP. I want some raids and some danger but not at the expense of crafting and the teamwork that goes into surviving in this world.

[Virtus]

PVP will be looked into/tweaked after release.

Jooky is currently aware that there is a bug with the damage calculations but currently does not have the time to hunt it down since he is busy with getting quests etc in before release.

He will be looking into a Mount and Blade style combat to see if it would be possible to implement something similar in Xsyon.

[Niburu]

Combat and Conflicts is the last method of politics. During Prelude we will hopefully see several power houses which control certain areas but are in high need of other ressources. With breaking items we are in a constant need of ressources. So sooner or later everyone has to ask himself how to gain the extra ressources that my neighbour has. It can be done by trading, setting up trade routes/spots. But mostly you will need to defend or get other players ressources by killing him ingame. And these killing parts has to be made fair and the player interaction with the keyboard and his hand/eye coordination should determine the outcome of every combat. Ofc Stats play also a role but they shouldn't give a unfair, unbeatable adventage over others.

The Combat basics are good atm on the papper but its a fast spamfest. If the time between attacks is abit slowed but the ability to block fast is still given it should be really well balanced. Ranged Combat with Free Aim is kinda easy to implement the trick is to balance ranged and close combat. If you really want M&B Combat you need also the same camera position as M&B and that means close 3th Person Perspective....close 3th person will also add alot immersion to your character i think and how you see the world as world and not as editior

Also important is that full fighters ( high stats in combat abilites) can't be good crafters and really good crafters can't be good fighters, that means booth need each other. The PVPer need the better items to get an edge over his opponent and the crafter need the PvPer to buy his items or for protection while crafting ^^.

[Kyleran]

it needs more work. to be honest the combatsystem is horrible and a real sandbox mmo needs beside of crafting, exploring and socializing open pvp with a nice combatsystem.
for the people who hates open pvp in xsyon: why dont you play minecraft?

i need the thrill in a sandboxgame to be killed everytime everywhere, its the spice in xsyon. sure, after release eveybody needs first to build up his village/kingdom, but after that i wish to have territorial conflicts, politics between villages and tribes, thats the longterm motivation to play this game.

the animations need a little bit more love too, for example it looks really weird when u sprint.

i hope the devs dont forget the pvper in xysion, a good sandbox needs it.

cya ingame :)

I'd have to ask, for the person who wants open PVP in Xsyon, why aren't you playing Darkfall?

Sandbox style games are not synonomous with unrestricted, open world PVP, in fact, EVE, one of the more successful sandbox style games has very controlled pvp in fact, with many rules, and provide players with the ability to avoid PVP completely if that is their desire.

Xsyon should consider doing the same, as nothing kills a good game than unrestricted PVP that does not punish the lawless in a manner that deters them from chosing that lifestyle, much as in the real world.

And no, you can't rely the players to enforce the law themselves, there never are enough incentives/advantages/rewards for doing so, the game gets too skewed to the lawless.

Just look at a country such as Eithopia if you want to see a real world example warlords endlessly batteling each other with no real controlling moral and social order. Certainly not a society we should strive for in real life or our game worlds.

[Niburu]

But if players fight each other and it they have nearly no outcome on the fight because its a random clickfest they will get bored too. You need a reason to craft all these items. The thing in Darkfall is that the best fighters are also theb est crafters, there are only 2-3 known crafter that don't PVP so you don't really need the crafter type of player. This game here has path you can choose and all these path's should have there pro/cons and all should make fun. Means each part of crafting should be fun and worth exploring but alos the combat types archery and meele should be fun and well made so if you like these type of playstyle you can schoose it. The griefing and meaningless PVP will not happen here i guess because of the algiment system, after there baskets got lootet twice evil tribes will think about there aligment. Also evil PvPers leaves room for good PVPers which will be the first conflict in Xsyon iguess. All these fights have to be supplied by crafters.

and yes EVE has also safe zones but that only works because the big alliance fight over ressources everytime....

[naughty]

I'd have to ask, for the person who wants open PVP in Xsyon, why aren't you playing Darkfall?

Sandbox style games are not synonomous with unrestricted, open world PVP, in fact, EVE, one of the more successful sandbox style games has very controlled pvp in fact, with many rules, and provide players with the ability to avoid PVP completely if that is their desire.

Xsyon should consider doing the same, as nothing kills a good game than unrestricted PVP that does not punish the lawless in a manner that deters them from chosing that lifestyle, much as in the real world.

And no, you can't rely the players to enforce the law themselves, there never are enough incentives/advantages/rewards for doing so, the game gets too skewed to the lawless.

Just look at a country such as Eithopia if you want to see a real world example warlords endlessly batteling each other with no real controlling moral and social order. Certainly not a society we should strive for in real life or our game worlds.

you cant compare xsyon with darkfall. darkfall is not a sandbox mmo in my opinion. its more like a big seemless quake-arena. crafting is very boring and simple, all cities and hamlets ingame are premade, you have no sand in the box to build your own kingdom.

[Niburu]

you cant compare xsyon with darkfall. darkfall is not a sandbox mmo in my opinion. its more like a big seemless quake-arena. crafting is very boring and simple, all cities and hamlets ingame are premade, you have no sand in the box to build your own kingdom.

crafting in DF is the same as in Xsyon, only how you get ressources and the amount is different. but true after playing Xsyon but its right DF is not a real sandbox

[Kyleran]

you cant compare xsyon with darkfall. darkfall is not a sandbox mmo in my opinion. its more like a big seemless quake-arena. crafting is very boring and simple, all cities and hamlets ingame are premade, you have no sand in the box to build your own kingdom.

Well of course its simplified, DF is a combat game at its core, which is what the more PVP centric player seems to want, while the more PVE oriented player generally favors building activites such as found in Xsyon.

You really can't have it all you know, either a game is designed to be a full out death match which caters to a certain type of player or it favors those more of the carebear mind sets. The two player groups really can't co-exist peacefully IMO unless you put in very rigid controls such as CCP did with EVE.

[JCatano]

"In Xsyon, tribe zones are safe zones. While wilderness areas will be mostly anything goes, encumbrance limits will prevent extensive looting and mechanisms are in place to prevent camping spawn locations. The goal is to have open PvP in general but not cater to griefer types."

---

Did he change his mind, or fail to mention "until after Prelude"?

[Gamefreak]

From what I understand he is sticking with what Jcatano posted above. In my opinion, he should. The more facets to an MMO the better.

[JCatano]

From what I understand he is sticking with what Jcatano posted above. In my opinion, he should. The more facets to an MMO the better.

It's opposite from what he said about PvP/tribes/Prelude in the past.

[Stundorn]

i want evil tribemembers to be able to kill in others tribeareas and to steal from bins by lockpicking with a success rate comparable to scavenging rares.
They cannot steal or loot very much because of encumbrance and maybe after a fight with low energy.
evils should spawn at their totems so raids have just one try, except they're plundering their neighbours :P
good an neutral tribes should declare war on each other with the same consequences, if they are killed by a tribemember of the enemy tribe.
It needs to be very hard to be evil, because they stress about 75% of the good and neutral citicens, if they are just go out to plunder, they wil need to trade with neutrals otherwise they must have their own crafters, which shouldnt be good fighters.
As i have understand it, there is a softcap of ??? Skillpoints decaying by not using the skills that allows you to reskill others.
So you can master crafting or fighting, not both, but you can change it by less crafting and more fighting or the opposite.
More cognizable attacks from enemys should the fighting system become more tactic relative to blocking and dodging.
So blocking and dodging should use less energy tha attacking so you can counter an attacker by blocking and dodging him until he is exhausted.

just some suggestions :)

[BigCountry]

The two player groups really can't co-exist peacefully IMO unless you put in very rigid controls such as CCP did with EVE.

They have to co-exist in a sandbox. Or else your game will fail due to simple boredom. You need item loss in order to stimulate people who play the industry (crafting) side of the game. You need item/structure loss to stimulate the PvPer as well. It's a 2 sided coin...

[Baldur]

I really hope PvP is made fun, and meaningful.

Having a post apocalyptic world without savagery and looting is just silly.

[yoori]

It's great that more and more people who want this game to have meaningful territory control, conquest and full loot pvp are starting to show interest. The Bob the Builder crew is probably outraged.

Not true I think everyone wants MEANIGFUL PvP, what we don't want is mindless killing just becouse you can and it's fun to "bully" weaker players. I'm all for territory control and conquest

[BigCountry]

Not true I think everyone wants MEANIGFUL PvP, what we don't want is mindless killing just becouse you can and it's fun to "bully" weaker players. I'm all for territory control and conquest

Just don't make me click my mouse and run my avatar 2 hours accross a dead world map looking for another player to encounter. As I am downloading this 3+ GB client I hope to heck that is not what this game represents. If I get ripped off on another one of those mmo's where I have to spend hours looking for another player to interact with, I am giving up on the sandbox all in general - because if that's what game designers think a sandbox is, they need to get out and socialize more...
lol :D

[Niburu]

Just don't make me click my mouse and run my avatar 2 hours accross a dead world map looking for another player to encounter. As I am downloading this 3+ GB client I hope to heck that is not what this game represents. If I get ripped off on another one of those mmo's where I have to spend hours looking for another player to interact with, I am giving up on the sandbox all in general - because if that's what game designers think a sandbox is, they need to get out and socialize more...
lol :D

simply depends were you place your tribe

[BigCountry]

I general, how close can tribal totems be to each other? Define by the time it takes to run back and forth etc.

[FabricSoftener]

Just don't make me click my mouse and run my avatar 2 hours accross a dead world map looking for another player to encounter. As I am downloading this 3+ GB client I hope to heck that is not what this game represents. If I get ripped off on another one of those mmo's where I have to spend hours looking for another player to interact with, I am giving up on the sandbox all in general - because if that's what game designers think a sandbox is, they need to get out and socialize more...
lol :D

I am nearly positive you will be disapointed. Darkfall is insta-pvp compared to this game and I was able to figure that out before even spending an hour in game.

No offense but reading the full features list and watching a few videos you should be able to get a clear 'feel' for the game pretty quickly

[Gandhi]

simply depends were you place your tribe

I agree with that. There are locations wherer there are quite much peaople, and herer are locations, which are quite deserted. he same with animals: In some locations there are many animals, but in other areas you have to search them for a lot of minutes. I think that is really good, because it makes he game more realistic.

[BigCountry]

Well I definitely want to be where the people and animals are! lol

[Gandhi]

Well I definitely want to be where the people and animals are! lol

I read a few days ago, that there are a lot of animals in the mountains. Moreover i read, that the south of the world is more populated than the north. I didnt check this ingame, because i had to do much work for the university in the past few weeks, but the next days i will check it out. ;)

[BigCountry]

I logged in and found/placed a totem around a lot of other players. It took a few tries (you have to be outside someone else territory to place one etc).

Stumbled upon a few animals and killed them.

No map. So I had no clue where I was. Tried to place the totem close to landmarks I would visually recognize. It's super easy to get lost in this game lol.

This game is a true sandbox. I am very impressed so far. Reminded me of the first time logging into UO.