A major concern.....xyson 2 carebear

[PrinceReaper]

I'm looking to buy the game but what I've heard is that xyson is not really a sandbox but really sim online or bob the builder.

explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate is how I play and the rest of my guild, we want to build an empire and destroy everyone in our path and force them under our control.

but from what i heard...there's no plans for conquering towns etc

so the PVP is already lackluster, and also meaningless...

just wondering if this is true? ...because this really sucks for someone like me, who likes to build empires and conquer others.

plus without seiging, conquering,expanding ..politics is going to be so boring.

[Jadzia]

exploit, and exterminate is how I play and the rest of my guild, we want to build an empire and destroy everyone in our path and force them under our control.

These are not possible in Xsyon, so yeah, seems the game is not for you.

[Niburu]

As far as i understand it you can't conquere other tribes atm. But i already heard that the next Evolution step in 6-9 month is called Tribe Wars....and its understandable because this world need to be build up first before you can conquer anything

[Gandhi]

I'm looking to buy the game but what I've heard is that xyson is not really a sandbox but really sim online or bob the builder.

explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate is how I play and the rest of my guild, we want to build an empire and destroy everyone in our path and force them under our control.

but from what i heard...there's no plans for conquering towns etc

so the PVP is already lackluster, and also meaningless...

just wondering if this is true? ...because this really sucks for someone like me, who likes to build empires and conquer others.

plus without seiging, conquering,expanding ..politics is going to be so boring.

I think Darkfall would be a better game for you.

[Shaggy]

Jooky has stated a couple of times that after Prelude (first 6 months give or take) he will be implementing the systems for tribes to wage war on one another. Like the other person said, we need to build stuff up before it can be conquered/destroyed.

[esudar]

it would be better if it takes only 1 month to build up stuff instead of 6.

because you carebears will think you wasted 6 months of your live and crying quit the game while 1 month maybe wont be that hard to take for you.

[aliksteel]

Troll, Ummm esudar I mean. Before you start talking crap, How about taking some time and reading. If you had, You would have seen this is not DF. This game is not built around PVP. It has PVP, but it's not PVP first and everything else second. If this is how you plan to start off on the Xsyon forums, Well maybe you need to head back over to DF. At lest there you will be with your own kind.

The Crying Carebear!
-Alik Steel

[JCatano]

As far as i understand it you can't conquere other tribes atm. But i already heard that the next Evolution step in 6-9 month is called Tribe Wars....and its understandable because this world need to be build up first before you can conquer anything

Terrible idea by Jooky, in my opinion. Once conquering of tribal areas is implemented (if it's even still his plan), those people who were conquered are going to quit. They'll spend "6 months" in la-la land, then once their area is taken over... Tears will flow. It happened in Darkfall, and territory control doesn't even mean anything in that game.

I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be a conquering mechanic, but it needs to be in before people get used to exploiting the safety of town borders. It's also a big part of the game whether people want to believe it or not. Anyone who thinks a game with open-pvp, looting, and area conquest isn't going to attract a lot of people who want to focus on PvP and territory control... Well, they are delusional.

[BigCountry]

it would be better if it takes only 1 month to build up stuff instead of 6.

I will have to agree here.

6 months?? wtf

[aliksteel]

Yes there is a lot of people that are delusional my friend. And I stand by what I said, If you want a game made around PVP go to DF. If you want a game made around Tribes stay here. PVP wars will be over tribal expansion areas.

[Jadzia]

I will have to agree here.

6 months?? wtf

Why are you surprised ? The Feature list of the game you bought says 'Player owned protected housing.' It could even mean the whole lifetime of the game, but let's think it only mean Prelude times. Prelude will last for like 6-9 months, closer to 9 months probably.

[naughty]

3 months carebearheaven would be okay...but 6-9???
what you wanna do 9 months ingame? crafting stuff? this would be very boring

[JCatano]

Yes there is a lot of people that are delusional my friend. And I stand by what I said, If you want a game made around PVP go to DF. If you want a game made around Tribes stay here. PVP wars will be over tribal expansion areas.

I play DF. Anyway...............................

Xsyon has open-PvP. PvP isn't going to only happen when someone wants an area. PvP will happen simply because it's ingame, especially as open-pvp with loot.

You don't advertise open-PvP with looting and not expect to attract people who want to focus on it.

[Jadzia]

3 months carebearheaven would be okay...but 6-9???
what you wanna do 9 months ingame? crafting stuff? this would be very boring

Tribe sieges won't be in for 6-9 more months, thats a fact, its not worth to argue about it. Personally I can go for years with crafting, building and exploring, destroying things doesn't mean any fun for me. If you want more excitement, choose to be evil, that way the carebear heaven disappears and you can be killed anywhere :)

[naughty]

Tribe sieges won't be in for 6-9 more months, thats a fact, its not worth to argue about it. Personally I can go for years with crafting, building and exploring, destroying things doesn't mean any fun for me. If you want more excitement, choose to be evil, that way the carebear heaven disappears and you can be killed anywhere :)

i would like to play as evil, but the alignmentsystem is not really implemented. nobody knows exactly how it is with an evil tribe.

[Jadzia]

i would like to play as evil, but the alignmentsystem is not really implemented. nobody knows exactly how it is with an evil tribe.

I had the impression that it is implemented, only switched off for now. I may be wrong though.

[Baldur]

it would be better if it takes only 1 month to build up stuff instead of 6.

because you carebears will think you wasted 6 months of your live and crying quit the game while 1 month maybe wont be that hard to take for you.

This man speaks the truth.

To make this post apocalyptic world truly immersive, I think there needs to be a certain degree of savagery. Xsyon has a good idea with the sandbox, but the problem with sandboxes is, you need to have something to do other than just building things for the sake of building things. Otherwise you'll end up with a world full of stuff, but nothing meaningful to do with it. If what I'm hearing is that the point of the game is to hold hands and build straw hats, well then I was very misled by the sales pitch.

Conquest and the meta-game are essential to any good sandbox game as far as I'm concerned. They give life to the world and meaning to your actions, so the things you craft are more than just trophies on the wall. Having solid PvP 'open world' mechanics like looting, limited safe zones, and conquest/destruction mechanics from the beginning of the game launch will make sure that the world builds organically, and maintains its authentic feel.

If all of this is planned for after 'Prelude', then just call Prelude how it is... beta. People will complain and leave the game if they sense 6 months of their hard work threatened, so the crafting side really needs to be balanced so that things can be created and destroyed at a healthy and non-frustrating pace. Communities will arise because hey, it's easier to defend your stuff with 20 people as opposed to 5. And if your 20 person community gets ransacked by a 50 person community, realize that you had a ton of fun anyways and move on to the next goal, or stop playing MMORPGs.

[BigCountry]

This man speaks the truth.

To make this post apocalyptic world truly immersive, I think there needs to be a certain degree of savagery. Xsyon has a good idea with the sandbox, but the problem with sandboxes is, you need to have something to do other than just building things for the sake of building things. Otherwise you'll end up with a world full of stuff, but nothing meaningful to do with it. If what I'm hearing is that the point of the game is to hold hands and build straw hats, well then I was very misled by the sales pitch.

Conquest and the meta-game are essential to any good sandbox game as far as I'm concerned. They give life to the world and meaning to your actions, so the things you craft are more than just trophies on the wall. Having solid PvP 'open world' mechanics like looting, limited safe zones, and conquest/destruction mechanics from the beginning of the game launch will make sure that the world builds organically, and maintains its authentic feel.

If all of this is planned for after 'Prelude', then just call Prelude how it is... beta. People will complain and leave the game if they sense 6 months of their hard work threatened, so the crafting side really needs to be balanced so that things can be created and destroyed at a healthy and non-frustrating pace. Communities will arise because hey, it's easier to defend your stuff with 20 people as opposed to 5. And if your 20 person community gets ransacked by a 50 person community, realize that you had a ton of fun anyways and move on to the next goal, or stop playing MMORPGs.

QFT 100%

Hey, anyone know how to change your forum display name? lol

[blake378]

that would be a great idea have pvp set into an expansion area if a tribe wants to expand but dont let people lose the actual town the worked hard to build that will cause more damage than good in this game i think. from what i gather this game is more along the lines of a game that is more about building and prospering than about killing and taking over other peoples land. also from what i gather the "pvpers" that are coming here are mainly just looking for an easy gank or target not real pvp challenge.

[JCatano]

that would be a great idea have pvp set into an expansion area if a tribe wants to expand but dont let people lose the actual town the worked hard to build that will cause more damage than good in this game i think. from what i gather this game is more along the lines of a game that is more about building and prospering than about killing and taking over other peoples land. also from what i gather the "pvpers" that are coming here are mainly just looking for an easy gank or target not real pvp challenge.

That is always the fallback statement of a "carebear".

If anything, the "PvPers" are wanting more dynamic gameplay.

[AlexTaldren]

I always get a good laugh at these so-called hardcore MMORPG "PvPers." They point and cry "carebear" simply because it pumps their ego, but at the end of the day, how "hardcore" is someone who sits in front of their PC, tab-targetting other players?

Anyway, there might be a way for both sides to be okay. If sieging tribes is ever implemented, the system should promote the annexation of smaller tribes, leaving the smaller tribe's development standing.

Tribe vs. Tribe Example:

Tribe A attacks Tribe B. B loses the war and their totem is conquered. Tribe A can then choose from a few options:


Annexation - Tribe B becomes a city-state of Tribe A. Tribe A can initiate some form of taxation on Tribe B that lasts for a set amount of time.
Assimilation - Tribe A requests that B assimilate into A. This initiates a vote among the members of Tribe B. If the vote passes successfully, all B members are moved into the roster of A, and the territory controlled by B is now controlled by A. Tribe B is dissolved permanently. If the vote fails, the conditions default to Annexation.
Pillage - Tribe A receives a certain amount of resources from Tribe B, but B gets to keep its independence and territory. Tribe B may incur some building destruction or damage, but this only requires them to do minor rebuilding and upkeep, not a complete rebuild.


This is a rough list of options, but it gives us options and political choices.

Declaring Independence

Also, if a Tribe is conquered by another, there should be an option for the conquered tribe to initiate some kind of declaration of independence after a certain period of time. At which point a battle is fought between the two tribes. Whoever wins gets to set the terms, whether it be indepedence or continued subjugation.

Unfortunately, these systems could be easily circumvented by players abandoning Tribes and reforming them with new totems, or by creating new characters. So more thinking need to be done about that.

[Mishima]

Interesting discussion. Those saying 6 months of simply crafting and building is way too long have some valid points; a lot of "peaceful" people will be upset when everything they have built can suddenly be taken away from them by aggressive people who own them in combat and have no regrets destroying just for the hell of it.

Coming from Mortal Online however, I'm looking at it from a different perspective. That game portrays itself as a sandbox, yet it started out with nothing but PvP (well, crafting and gathering, but that is only done to serve PvP). It still has nothing but PvP going for it. Housing is in, but it lacks purpose, keeps are in, but they lack purpose. Territory control is in, but it lack purpose. You can't interact with the world, you can't really change it in any interesting way. You can claim land, but it makes no difference. You can declare war, but there's no way of actually winning it, except by destroying everything your opponent has built and make him ragequit. And even if you do that, you haven't really gained anything in game.

The result: bored players killing each other over and over for no apparent reason. A pretty static world where some empty and useless player structures are standing around, waiting to get smashed.

A lot of people came to MO because they wanted a sandbox game. A lot of them left because the game has remained a glorified deathmatch arena all along - much like DFO except that MO's combat has been fucked up most of the time (one of the reasons for the lack of non-PvP content is that the devs have been forced to tweak the extremely complex combat system forever, postponing everything else). Random, meaningless PKing rules supreme since there is nothing more rewarding to do, and since there is no heavy penalty for killing innocents; murder counts and red flags have no real impact. There are no trading tools, no empire building tools, no social tools, no fluff, no vanity or RP stuff, nothing. Of course the devs keep saying it's coming soon, but the fact is that MO remains a PvP game, not a sandbox game featuring PvP.

I think it could have been way different if MO had started out with some real, working sandbox tools, and then implemented combat-related features after a while. It's gonna be interesting to see what happens in Xsyon, which seems to be doing just that.

[FabricSoftener]

In all fairness if someone really want to proove themselves in pvp Darkfall really is the game to do that. If I was hard core pvp player I really would be somewhat embarased to say I am king of Xyson pvp but not Darkfall.
Something to ponder.

[Vadio]

@Fabricsoftener Remeber several change in combat soon(after release near tribal warfare i think)
*maybe PVPpack :P
@AlexTaldren i like
Develop more concept and post :) ( in another thread )
@topic and carebear or not , dont care people are freedom to chosen path

[FabricSoftener]

@Fabricsoftener Remeber several change in combat soon(after release near tribal warfare i think)


Yeah but I very much doubt it will ever come close to this:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DFValroth

I am not putting Xyson down in fact I think I like the game, I am just saying for hard core pvp empire action, this would not be that game given darkfall is in the market place

[Vadio]

i know about valroth ( i ex player DF , sold account 1 moth ago )

and agree in some aspect

Maybe darkfall in pvp aspect Unquestionable
Of course i know Xsyon more similiar minecraft/wurm

But one game without pvp impossible my vision ,
Possible create mechanics to prevent grief and avoid pvp
But Siege/Warfare/Arena is cool add to game

[blake378]

That is always the fallback statement of a "carebear".

If anything, the "PvPers" are wanting more dynamic gameplay.

as far as for the carebear comment this is not true. i was top of my alliance in eve 2 years running in pvp kills and solo kills overall. in uo i lived in fel and pvped constantly. all im saying is from my experience in pvp over the years in all games its coming to the place that pvpers just want easy kills they dont want to fight they just want to gank and grief. ive been on both sides of this for instance in eve if a fight is going to be equal numbers most people wont fight because they know they might now win. same way with uo it turned into one guild on a server just ganking everyone that came to try to do spawns. there are very few pvpers that want to fight they just want kills. ive been on both sides of this and i can take a loss but yes i am a carebear at heart when the time comes.

[BigCountry]

So for those currently playing, outside of PvP, what is the point of this game? Who can construct the largest house? Are there reward points for building things or something? Is it nothing but a 3D farmville or is there an actual purpose in playing the game? I pre-ordered and I am ready to try, but would like to know what I am getting into. The FAQ page made it sound like this was a sandbox PvP game, so I signed on. Not to grieve or what not, but to play/compete against other players, via solo or group (a "sandbox" should offer both) etc.

[Potapithikos]

Really interested in what this game has to offer however i am too perplexed by this... if anyone can provide information regarding the following questions i would greatly appreciate it.

What makes belongings matter then?

Will Tribe lands be subject to attacks from enviroment (animals, monsters, etc, adverse conditions like weather) and people need to defend to protect their constructions or maintain or rebuild the damages?

Will survival without hte threat of tribal warfare be challenging enough to provide incentives?

[esudar]

the point is to play together with people.
chat and coordinate what everybodys job is... build your tribe.

there is no competition or whatsoever atm tho.
no rewards i think, barely interaction with people outside of your tribe

[esudar]

Will survival without hte threat of tribal warfare be challenging enough to provide incentives?

probably not

[blake378]

i would love to see some sort of active wars down the road and pvp but i think there should be some safe zones or either zones for pvp wouldnt be fair to everyone if there werent.

[Jadzia]

that would be a great idea have pvp set into an expansion area if a tribe wants to expand but dont let people lose the actual town the worked hard to build that will cause more damage than good in this game i think.
We have a similar thinking, this is exactly what I'd like to see after Prelude. Only my opinion of course.

[eightonefive]

I always get a good laugh at these so-called hardcore MMORPG "PvPers." They point and cry "carebear" simply because it pumps their ego, but at the end of the day, how "hardcore" is someone who sits in front of their PC, tab-targetting other players?

Anyway, there might be a way for both sides to be okay. If sieging tribes is ever implemented, the system should promote the annexation of smaller tribes, leaving the smaller tribe's development standing.


Tribe vs. Tribe Example:

Tribe A attacks Tribe B. B loses the war and their totem is conquered. Tribe A can then choose from a few options:


Annexation - Tribe B becomes a city-state of Tribe A. Tribe A can initiate some form of taxation on Tribe B that lasts for a set amount of time.
Assimilation - Tribe A requests that B assimilate into A. This initiates a vote among the members of Tribe B. If the vote passes successfully, all B members are moved into the roster of A, and the territory controlled by B is now controlled by A. Tribe B is dissolved permanently. If the vote fails, the conditions default to Annexation.
Pillage - Tribe A receives a certain amount of resources from Tribe B, but B gets to keep its independence and territory. Tribe B may incur some building destruction or damage, but this only requires them to do minor rebuilding and upkeep, not a complete rebuild.


This is a rough list of options, but it gives us options and political choices.

Declaring Independence

Also, if a Tribe is conquered by another, there should be an option for the conquered tribe to initiate some kind of declaration of independence after a certain period of time. At which point a battle is fought between the two tribes. Whoever wins gets to set the terms, whether it be indepedence or continued subjugation.

Unfortunately, these systems could be easily circumvented by players abandoning Tribes and reforming them with new totems, or by creating new characters. So more thinking need to be done about that.


these are great ideas!


in response to another poster, no there shouldn't be set zones for pvp. open world pvp is why i came here and if it's not open world everywhere then i will leave. tribe lands are already safe zones. leave it at that and quit requesting to push the pvp somewhere else.

[BigCountry]

the point is to play together with people.
chat and coordinate what everybodys job is... build your tribe.

there is no competition or whatsoever atm tho.
no rewards i think, barely interaction with people outside of your tribe

build it to what measure though? so passerbys can look at it? what is the point (gaming aspect) of building something? does it get attacked by npcs? water? something? if not, then it's not really a video game?

[JCatano]

as far as for the carebear comment this is not true. i was top of my alliance in eve 2 years running in pvp kills and solo kills overall. in uo i lived in fel and pvped constantly. all im saying is from my experience in pvp over the years in all games its coming to the place that pvpers just want easy kills they dont want to fight they just want to gank and grief. ive been on both sides of this for instance in eve if a fight is going to be equal numbers most people wont fight because they know they might now win. same way with uo it turned into one guild on a server just ganking everyone that came to try to do spawns. there are very few pvpers that want to fight they just want kills. ive been on both sides of this and i can take a loss but yes i am a carebear at heart when the time comes.

I placed "carebear" within quotes for a particular reason, just as I did with "PvPer". If you want to take the former as a derogatory comment, then so be it.

I assume that's the case since you already labeled "PvPers" as people who simply want to "gank" and "grief". Your view doesn't mean anything to me because of that ignorant statement.

If some of you people cannot see that "PvPers" are basically asking for dynamic gameplay, meaningful control of territory, and some other reasons to engage in PvP, then the discussion is a lost cause.

If Jooky doesn't want open-PvP, anymore, he needs to man-up and just say it. Maybe, it would be because he never really wanted it in the first place, or he just can't figure out how to appease his prized pets. No idea. No hard feelings if you want to change it, Jooky.

[FabricSoftener]

So for those currently playing, outside of PvP, what is the point of this game? Who can construct the largest house? Are there reward points for building things or something? Is it nothing but a 3D farmville or is there an actual purpose in playing the game? I pre-ordered and I am ready to try, but would like to know what I am getting into. The FAQ page made it sound like this was a sandbox PvP game, so I signed on. Not to grieve or what not, but to play/compete against other players, via solo or group (a "sandbox" should offer both) etc.

I have found that some people who live for pvp do not have the ability to understand why anyone would do anything whatsoever if there wasnt competition behind it. The inverse question can be asked of you, what is the 'meaning' of conquring cities?

Some people just like to smoke a cigar because its tastes good, not because of any hidden meaning.

Having said that, I think this game should have pvp but it should be somewhat controlled in away that places context in the game world not 'just cuz'

[MortalMan]

Wait, Does this mean you can't destroy player made buildings yet?
What if you just dig under them will they collapse?

You can still kill other players and loot them correct?

I don't really "need" artificial game mechanics to declare war on another guild. I just don't want to see artificial game mechanics that prevent me from doing so...

[Jadzia]

Wait, Does this mean you can't destroy player made buildings yet?
What if you just dig under them will they collapse?

You can still kill other players and loot them correct?

I don't really "need" artificial game mechanics to declare war on another guild. I just don't want to see artificial game mechanics that prevent me from doing so...

If you have read the Feature page you know that it says Player Owned PROTECTED Housing and Player Owned PROTECTED storage during Prelude. No, you can't destroy others' buildings during Prelude, you can't dig under them ( you can't terraform in another tribe's land).

You can kill and loot players if they are out of their own tribe territory.
Hope this helps.

[blake378]

I placed "carebear" within quotes for a particular reason, just as I did with "PvPer". If you want to take the former as a derogatory comment, then so be it.

I assume that's the case since you already labeled "PvPers" as people who simply want to "gank" and "grief". Your view doesn't mean anything to me because of that ignorant statement.

If some of you people cannot see that "PvPers" are basically asking for dynamic gameplay, meaningful control of territory, and some other reasons to engage in PvP, then the discussion is a lost cause.

If Jooky doesn't want open-PvP, anymore, he needs to man-up and just say it. Maybe, it would be because he never really wanted it in the first place, or he just can't figure out how to appease his prized pets. No idea. No hard feelings if you want to change it, Jooky.

seems i struck a nerve here all im saying is that in my 10+years of mmo experience most of the pvpers are only looking for easy ganks and griefing weaker tribes/guilds/corp whatever if you arent one of those guys then it wasnt directed at you and im sorry to have your your e-feelings internet forums are srs bsns. but anyway there should be something in place to protect the smaller tribes from "griefing" but other than that i think the game will be awesome nothing more fun than open pvp and i look forward to it.

[Melkrow]

Well, here is my take on this.

1. People will absolutely be crying and leaving the game if Tribe Wars feature comes out and they have a chance to lose everything that they've worked for in the last year (yeah it's probably more than a year by the time 'prelude' is over). This being a game with full local storage, people will in fact lose 'everything' (if the system doesn't change) when their tribe/town is taken/destroyed. This leads me to believe that rather than doing this Jooky will simply keep the current formula and tribes will stay protected forever, and will probably take another approach similar to Border Kingdoms in AoC where tribes can go and fight for whatever. Shame honestly, takes away from the sandbox.

2. Now what people really don't seem to get is that the current system (Prelude) greatly encourages and promotes ganking and griefing. W/out adding any meaning to PVP, without having any political implications, without having any purpose to it, the PVP that will be found in Xsyon will be a PRIME griefing gankfest type of PVP, it's gonna be pathetic. The game promotes that behavior because people will have nothing better to fight over. I can already see an entire tribe 'locked' within their protection radius by griefers who are waiting on the border for them to step out. Griefers will have more fun in this scenario while listening to the cries of others. The anti-pvp/war population will find themselves slowly leaving the game because they realize they fucked it up when they insisted on not providing a better and more meaningful outlet for PVPers to partake in.

[blake378]

i can actually see that happening just like in uo so jooky needs to sit back and and look at the potential numbers he could lose i think in this game it will be the so called "carebears" there should be some system in place to give pvp a meaning and prevent people from doing exactly what you said melkrow. excellent post +1

[Melkrow]

Also, I strongly agree that this would be a step in the right direction http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/3118-Good-vs-Evil-or-not

To sum it up: Evil and Good tribes can fight eachother anywhere any time (even inside tribe zone). Neutrals remain as they are and can not be attacked inside their tribe. So those tribes that want some pvp action and warfare can do some good vs evil, and those that want to be left alone, they can just go neutral. It's a win win win I believe.

[blake378]

that is a very nice system do you think it should be spread into other pvp to keep smaller tribes from being perma camped and griefed anywhere they go?

[Melkrow]

Not sure what you mean, can you give an example.

[blake378]

just say for instance a 40 man tribe wants to grief a 5 man tribe whats to keep the 40man from just staying outside the tribes area and making it impossible for the 5 man tribe to leave there tribe area causing them to quit the game just because people want to be assholes. should be some mechanic in place so this wont happen

[BigCountry]

just say for instance a 40 man tribe wants to grief a 5 man tribe whats to keep the 40man from just staying outside the tribes area and making it impossible for the 5 man tribe to leave there tribe area causing them to quit the game just because people want to be assholes. should be some mechanic in place so this wont happen

why would u quit the game if that happened? it's part of playing in a sandbox.

your 5 man tribe will be surrounded by neighbors (other tribes). you use politics to decide how you want to be treated in the community. this game will be very community driven due to the mechanics. so if a 40 man tribe came into the area harrashing you. you should have backup from the community in your area i would think to push them away.

also a 40 man tribe will not camp you unless you just massively piss them off somehow (and then it's your own fault). they will be a moving herd i would think pillaging anyone and everyone that is outside his/her territory. they are there for loot/materials. they will not get anything staying in one spot camping 5 people..

this game supports a ton of scenarios. it really is a unique game, VERY sandbox. i would argue maybe the most sandbox game I have played since UO. and with teraforming it puts it beyond UO. :D

[blake378]

the whole uo thing is what attracted me to this game its kinda the same thing with champ spawns in uo one pvp guild preventing anyone thats in a smaller guild from doing champ spawns. any smaller tribes trying to get access to something will be denied as for the politics thing that is true and the best way to play the game imho. it works well in other games 1000 allies and having to go find pvp is better than being the small fish and getting killed all the time. but i have seen people leave games because they couldnt get access to certain things without getting ganked by bigger tribes thats where im coming from with this. something needs to be done to prevent this from happening.

[BigCountry]

if you liked UO you will love this game man.
:D

and dont worry about being ganked. if your plant your totem in an area that ends up being 'evil' infested, just pack up and move somewhere safer.

you have lots of options in this game it seems. remember its a sandbox.
:D

[Melkrow]

just say for instance a 40 man tribe wants to grief a 5 man tribe whats to keep the 40man from just staying outside the tribes area and making it impossible for the 5 man tribe to leave there tribe area causing them to quit the game just because people want to be assholes. should be some mechanic in place so this wont happen

I don't think you could implement such a mechanic in a free for all pvp system, I don't see a surefire hardcoded way around it, but see the suggestion at the end of the post. What can be done is give incentive to players to not do this, give them something better to do. If people are going to have to chose between camping 5 guys in their area or going out there and finding another tribe that they can fight in full force without artificial restrictions, most will choose 2nd one. But if you take that choice away (like the current Prelude system), then ALL will choose to camp those 5 players...because they got absolutely nothing else to do, no other choice (tho probably they will come up with a more creative way to grief people).

Sure you will get the occasional griefers that go above and beyond to greif certain people if they get into some sort of personal squabble, but it wont be the standard behavior (and again, I want to highlight this point, because it will be a STANDARD behavior if you don't give players any other options). In Darkfall and Mortal Online for example, you can bind camp somebody all day long, but it doesn't happen. You could go to people's cities in DF and kill them at their bindstone all day long, 24/7. But it rarely, if ever, really happens. They come in, roll the city, control the city for 5 or 10 minutes (if that) and the go about their business. Even the worst of enemies don't do this to one another because it's just a waste of time and is boring. There is always another city, another hamlet, another farmer to be killed and looted. It's really a non-issue. If you give people options to do real PVP, most will stay clear of this type of griefing.

One thing that can be done to combat this through game mechanics is with respawns. What I mean is if you respawn within your tribal area lets say 3 times in the period of 5 minutes (numbers can be changed to whatever, and only applies when killed by players), then that will trigger "anti-camp protection". Anti-Camp Protection will make it so that if you are killed in the next 5 minutes, you respawn with full HP and full Energy if you are within your tribal area. And every time you are killed within those 5 minutes (and respawn in your tribal area), the timer will reset and you get another 5 minutes. It's not a perfect solution, but it would help. The biggest problem would be when two tribes are right next to eachother so that they can both keep respawning in their own tribal areas. But since Evil players auto respawn at their totems anyway, it still gives a slight adventage to Neutrals. And also, this helps with Good tribes griefing evil ones as well. Make no mistake, there will be "Good" griefer guilds.

The thought of somebody being 100% protected doesn't sit too well with me, because it encourages shit talkers and brings forth other kinds of griefing as nobody can hold them accountable for anything because the game protects them. Most hardcore griefers usually go with the system that protects them the most so that they can hide behind bad game mechanics. People will exploit systems that gives them immunities for their actions. Accountability (to other players for your actions) is important and w/out the possibility of it, open PVP system would be better off if removed from the game.

Oh and, accountability breeds politics and civility and diplomacy.

Sorry for the typos.

[blake378]

i was thinking more along the lines of several penalties for the tribe camping the smaller tribes and griefers. like if you kill someone in x amount of time they become invulnerable for a set amount of time. don't get me wrong here i love pvp and i love the idea of open pvp in games i would just hate to see some 5 man tribe minding their business and keep getting griefed by another tribe just because they can. from what i gather this game is going to be mostly tradeskillers and crafters which i love a good crafting system in game. if they allow for tribes to be camped 24/7 people are going to quit the game ive seen it in most other mmo you cant do anything so you just quit. a lot of really good ideas in this thread keep it going.

[Melkrow]

i was thinking more along the lines of several penalties for the tribe camping the smaller tribes and griefers. like if you kill someone in x amount of time they become invulnerable for a set amount of time. don't get me wrong here i love pvp and i love the idea of open pvp in games i would just hate to see some 5 man tribe minding their business and keep getting griefed by another tribe just because they can. from what i gather this game is going to be mostly tradeskillers and crafters which i love a good crafting system in game. if they allow for tribes to be camped 24/7 people are going to quit the game ive seen it in most other mmo you cant do anything so you just quit. a lot of really good ideas in this thread keep it going.

That could work too but only if it applies when people respaw in their tribal area, otherwise it can be exploited to kill mobs, when fighting over non-claimed resources etc. I'm really only in favor of this if it does in fact become a problem. I honestly don't think it will, but I guess it would an easy solution to implement immunity protections if necessary.

[lolomc]

Well i think there is a reason for just building and crafting in the Prelude.
Just look at features not activ yet, i dont think it is gonna be that easy to conquer and camp a tribe. I played Eve as well for 5 Years, of course pvp was daily buisiness but no pvp without logistics. I just hope there is more brain related pvp instead of the nowdays
griefing, ganking, no effor i have bigger gun and numbers killing.

[BigCountry]

Well i think there is a reason for just building and crafting in the Prelude.
Just look at features not activ yet, i dont think it is gonna be that easy to conquer and camp a tribe.

/this

from what i have experienced so far, you start this game with literally nothing. you can't just run around and kill people. your gonna have to be nice for a few, make relationships and trade to get what you need. if you want to go the evil pk route, your gonna have to plan and do it accordingly to the community your going to hunt. almost like a serial killer....lol!

this game will not be a quake fest like DF. it moves too slow. but thats fine, dont let me saying that scare you off.

i played UO/SB/DF and some EvE. I love PvP and at times I have grieved PKd for sport.

and I like this game.
:D

[Niburu]

just say for instance a 40 man tribe wants to grief a 5 man tribe whats to keep the 40man from just staying outside the tribes area and making it impossible for the 5 man tribe to leave there tribe area causing them to quit the game just because people want to be assholes. should be some mechanic in place so this wont happen

Welcome to Sandbox. The small tribe has to activate his political methods maybe form alliances with other small tribes and grief the hit out of the 40 man tribe. simple

[neuronomad]

I was still downloading the patch before leaving for work this morning so I haven't even been in the game. That being said I really perfer consentual PVP. Yeah I am a carebear. I like some PVP but I don't like it always there and having to worry at all times. Sometimes I just want to sit back and enjoy the game. As far as seeing a city built and then soon after burnt to the ground by a bunch of kids looking to make trouble doesn't really appeal to me.

Now some type of Arena combat or something like that. I like that idea.

[Tehralph]

Oh thank god this game isnt for you Prince. Youve already caused the MO community enough heartache. By the way, how is your empire faring in MO? Oh, thats right...

[Jadzia]

Welcome to Sandbox. The small tribe has to activate his political methods maybe form alliances with other small tribes and grief the hit out of the 40 man tribe. simple

Jooky said griefing is not allowed in the game, so I wouldn't recommand that. If griefing becomes a playstyle for some he will shift the balance so that would only bring more severe punishments for evils. Not a good idea.

[Maligno]

I'm debating on if I should get this game and have been going through some threads to get a better idea about it all. I'm for PvP, wars, etc, but it has to be controlled somehow. Punish people for it. What was it in UO 8 12 hours per murder count? You could go red only 3 times before it was permanent? Let people put bounties on their killer etc. Even the biggest tribe would have go into hiding if they kill to many people.

[Melkrow]

Jooky said griefing is not allowed in the game, so I wouldn't recommand that. If griefing becomes a playstyle for some he will shift the balance so that would only bring more severe punishments for evils. Not a good idea.

This truly must be your first MMO that you followed pre-launch. You are a very very delusional person.

[Jadzia]

This truly must be your first MMO that you followed pre-launch. You are a very very delusional person.

Google translate says it means I'm an amazing person....but I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that, lol.

[PrinceReaper]

Xyson does not advertise itself as a sim builder

(btw im the dude who made this thread) - I did not expect such a response from people.

I've played many games that call themselves "sandboxes" so im fairly experienced and if anyone from MO is here, then they should know of my name as im a regular user there.

I do not consider myself someone who goes out there killing people randomly, the game advertises PVP, PVP, does not mean senseless ganking....heck if that is the case then this game will "attract alot of hardcore pvpers and griefers because the only player vs player this game currently offers is "senseless hardcore ganking" (I won't say PVP, because people think pvp is griefing)

I am not interested in something like that, if xyson calls itself a sandbox then it need to let the players decide their course by allowing as much freedom as possible and if it doesn't, then it is not a true sandbox in that sense.

I currently play mortal online, i am a merchant right now, I do not even PVP (ride around and gank randoms) ......I don't even have a red dude.

But, I taken part in the great "northern" war, and the affects of some of my actions can still be seen with the chaos alliance which I was once apart of (Founded it with wz and aco)

That is the pvp im attracted 2......

Also what's the point of building up in this game? how many warehouses do you want to build? what's the difference between town A and town B....how much different buildings can you build before it gets boring, building something again and again would just be meaningless.

what will be driving your actions, what desires would you have?....the social aspect can go so far (do you want this to turn into hello kitty online)

Player vs Player as the one I've described, increases the games longevity by far, because there's risk, its a challenge and its competing against other players.

[Borluc]

Troll, Ummm esudar I mean. Before you start talking crap, How about taking some time and reading. If you had, You would have seen this is not DF. This game is not built around PVP. It has PVP, but it's not PVP first and everything else second. If this is how you plan to start off on the Xsyon forums, Well maybe you need to head back over to DF. At lest there you will be with your own kind.

The Crying Carebear!
-Alik Steel

Wow, I just registered and this is one of the most offensive posts I've seen on any gaming forum. Why? It wouldn't be that bad if it was obviously just a child venting anger or frustration. However, when an adult actively tries to make someone else's opinion invalid with his own, I find that disgusting. Do you know why you responded with such venom and hate? It is because you are full of fear. You're scared that this game will get populated with people who enjoy pvp and conquering nations. You are scared that the game won't turn out how you want it to be. So, instead of stating your opinion of why the idea doesn't fit here, you attack the OP by throwing insults. To be honest, I think "your kind", to quote you, are the ones that I'd like to avoid.

[mgilbrtsn]

Very interesting discussion. I like the idea of Tribal warfare and I agree with many of the concerns about it. But at this point, there isn't enough information about it (from what I have seen) to really complain or complement it. What I do think is that the developers seem to be listening and acting on player feedback. This means its a good bet that it will be something that most of the community will enjoy. If course not everybody, because you can't please everybody.

[Valiar]

I literally just heard about this game last night. I was and am extremely excited, but at the moment I am unable to play due to technical issues with my computer.

However, if I may add my two cents:

I think that clan/guild/tribal warfare and PvP is one of the driving forces behind any game that wishes to be a sandbox. After all, why build a safe place if there is no threat outside? Why craft weapons and armor if there is no chance of them being needed? Long story short, what meaning is there behind the ability to create if there is not also the equal ability to destroy? In the end, it'd be like masturbation; fun while it lasts, and satisfying when you finish, but ultimately pointless.

I understand holding off on the warfare aspect long enough for the tribes to get established, but that should only take a month or maybe two. But it must be implemented. Especially in a world as mutable as Xsyon's. Changing the world is an important part of a sandbox game, but affecting other people is even more important, and the most effective way to do this is introduce a system of conquering. This not only opens up the game for actual competition, but paves the way for a political climate, sets the rather merciless tone that should exist in a post-apocalyptic game, and makes room for the "wolves" of the gaming world who add actual excitement.

Don't misunderstand me; I'm not even much of a PvPer. I enjoy it, occasionally, but games like Darkfall and Mortal that offer nothing but PvP bore me. When I meet someone in the wild, my first thought is not to kill them, but to see what it is they're doing and if they need any help. Really, I would classify myself as an RP'er and explorer. That's why I'm so attracted to Xsyon - it has a strong base and build up of the other critical aspects as well. But I do not like the idea of player interaction being limited, especially in a game as open as Xsyon. And player interaction does, occasionally, include killing other players and waging wars.

Should there be consequences? Certainly. I did, for a long time, play a red character in UO, and whereas some people whined about penalties, I embraced them. Only the toughest should be able to actually survive as an outlaw. Likewise, a tribe that tries to conquer the world should be vulnerable if it over-extends itself. Not only does the make the game more "carebear" friendly (and I use the term sarcastically), but it gives the would-be conquers a way to play the game as they wish, too.

Should there be a reason not to kill and conquer? Yes. I am willing to wager my life that, if the apocalypse did come, that the entire world would not devolve into a mindless mass of murderers. Humans are pre-programmed to make it difficult to kill your fellows, and we are herd creatures, so we are naturally inclined to work together. The game should have mechanics to mirror this effect.

But should we create artificial limitations that keep it from happening? No. Simply put, if I for some reason want to kill you, I should be able to simply walk up and pick a fight. If I want to get my tribe together and take your land from you, or force you to obey me, I should likewise be able to wage war. I like AlexTaldren's ideas about assimilation, annexation, and pillage. Those happen much more often in real life than utter destruction - most times, despite what your government tells you, wars are not about justice or liberation; they are about the acquiring of resources, human and natural. That's something most game developers don't seem to understand, instead making your only recourse to annihilate. Annihilation is also, sadly, now what most gamers expect from "siege warfare." I think that if Xsyon creates a system of subjugation rather than eradication, it could be a huge step for the industry. But I digress.

Anyway, that's my two (or three or four) cents, as stated above.

[river111]

I dont know why all these PvPers are complaining so much. You would think they would be happy the carebears are getting a chance to mount a challenge for them first. Unless of course they feel they wont be able to conquer anyone if its challenging.......

[Armand]

I'm not a fan of stat loss upon death (major character handicap unless the loss can be recouped in a decent amount of time), and more so one of XP and loot loss. I feel it's only normal you be left naked in the middle of nowhere after being killed, and everyone should expect this. Thieves and headhunters will be making this their bread and butter after all. Afraid of pvp? Seek the security of a tribe, or be extremely vigilant and ready to defend/run.

This world isn't meant to be a utopia after the fall, but a lawless land that sees humanity revert to it's roots. The duality of man ensures that both good and evil will thrive, and the key to all our enjoyment in this game will be to find a balance of both. Griefers of course are the AIDS of MMOs, and are NOT, in my opinion, a reflection of the of true player killers.

[Tashohnie]

I'm not a fan of stat loss upon death (major character handicap unless the loss can be recouped in a decent amount of time), and more so one of XP and loot loss. I feel it's only normal you be left naked in the middle of nowhere after being killed, and everyone should expect this. Thieves and headhunters will be making this their bread and butter after all. Afraid of pvp? Seek the security of a tribe, or be extremely vigilant and ready to defend/run.

This world isn't meant to be a utopia after the fall, but a lawless land that sees humanity revert to it's roots. The duality of man ensures that both good and evil will thrive, and the key to all our enjoyment in this game will be to find a balance of both. Griefers of course are the AIDS of MMOs, and are NOT, in my opinion, a reflection of the of true player killers.
While I think this is a great post I have to ask in what light do you deem griefers as this is a loosely used phrase and has so many meanings. Killing someone once can be deemed as grief.

[Armand]

While I think this is a great post I have to ask in what light do you deem griefers as this is a loosely used phrase and has so many meanings. Killing someone once can be deemed as grief.

I see griefers as people who exploit game weaknesses in order to make life miserable for honest players. An example I can think of right off the bat is camping spawn points (respawn I believe won't be a problem in this game), another is purposely creating lag through various means while in combat. There are a few possible ones that I'd rather keep to myself for fear of giving people any ideas.

The way I see it, death by PK (yes, even 10 vs 1 encounters) is to be expected. People need to learn to play smart and adapt to the constant threat of people who choose to align themselves evil. Easy = boring.

[Primavera]

Been away from the forums for months as it was getting too repetitive for me. I see the Carebear Propaganda machine is still in full swing though and its not really any different. Every single thread relating to pvp saturated with denials about pvp/war etc as if they are part of the dev team, and not in the dark like rest of us.

Any chance you could give it a rest guys and stop trying to make something true by posting it 1000 times. I'd really like to know what the mechanics and penalties of pvp etc are but searching through so many threads that have been saturated with your "helpful" little comments is as tiring as being Forrest Gump out for a jog.

[FabricSoftener]

Been away from the forums for months as it was getting too repetitive for me. I see the Carebear Propaganda machine is still in full swing though and its not really any different. Every single thread relating to pvp saturated with denials about pvp/war etc as if they are part of the dev team, and not in the dark like rest of us.

Any chance you could give it a rest guys and stop trying to make something true by posting it 1000 times. I'd really like to know what the mechanics and penalties of pvp etc are but searching through so many threads that have been saturated with your "helpful" little comments is as tiring as being Forrest Gump out for a jog.

is this your first game or something? everything you described is just about every forum for every game ever.

[dackain]

I always get a good laugh at these so-called hardcore MMORPG "PvPers." They point and cry "carebear" simply because it pumps their ego, but at the end of the day, how "hardcore" is someone who sits in front of their PC, tab-targetting other players?

Anyway, there might be a way for both sides to be okay. If sieging tribes is ever implemented, the system should promote the annexation of smaller tribes, leaving the smaller tribe's development standing.

Tribe vs. Tribe Example:

Tribe A attacks Tribe B. B loses the war and their totem is conquered. Tribe A can then choose from a few options:


Annexation - Tribe B becomes a city-state of Tribe A. Tribe A can initiate some form of taxation on Tribe B that lasts for a set amount of time.
Assimilation - Tribe A requests that B assimilate into A. This initiates a vote among the members of Tribe B. If the vote passes successfully, all B members are moved into the roster of A, and the territory controlled by B is now controlled by A. Tribe B is dissolved permanently. If the vote fails, the conditions default to Annexation.
Pillage - Tribe A receives a certain amount of resources from Tribe B, but B gets to keep its independence and territory. Tribe B may incur some building destruction or damage, but this only requires them to do minor rebuilding and upkeep, not a complete rebuild.


This is a rough list of options, but it gives us options and political choices.

Declaring Independence

Also, if a Tribe is conquered by another, there should be an option for the conquered tribe to initiate some kind of declaration of independence after a certain period of time. At which point a battle is fought between the two tribes. Whoever wins gets to set the terms, whether it be indepedence or continued subjugation.

Unfortunately, these systems could be easily circumvented by players abandoning Tribes and reforming them with new totems, or by creating new characters. So more thinking need to be done about that.

This is the most constructive post on the subject, and honestly cant beleive more have said so. These ideas are very thoughtful and have a great chance of working.

My fears are that PvP leads to what all these games lead to, is the superpower. Im a 2005 character in EvE, Ive been part of every great war, Im an old UO player, and a darkfall player, and whats killed my fun everytime is not having a choice but to join the superpower, leaving you with only 1 type of pvp. It is as stated by another poster, a fight where to equal sides will never engage until the other knows they have the upper hand. Or lets say there are 2 similar tribes, but tribe A cannot attack tribe B because of the fact they are living on the tit of a larger tribe next door. Once this is possible, ever tribe in the game rushes to form alliances to attempt to dwarf any competition and literally erases most forms of PvP from the mechanics of the game. And then what you have left, is just like darkfall secured walls and borders with nothing left to do but afk macro your skills. Someone needs to come up with a different system of alliances when it comes to PvP, and sorry I dont have any constructive ideas at this time.

[Valiar]

While I think this is a great post I have to ask in what light do you deem griefers as this is a loosely used phrase and has so many meanings. Killing someone once can be deemed as grief.

Not it's not. Killing someone once is usually just a crime of opportunity - they want your stuff so they take it. "Griefing" would be seeking that person out and repeatedly killing them, harassing them, or just being an ass.

[Koll]

.

explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate is how I play and the rest of my guild, we want to build an empire and destroy everyone in our path and force them under our control.



Jeez first; TheMAp and now you; this is going to be an MO reunion again; looking forward to meet you on the Battlefield again mate.

[Baldur]

Well I hope some lessons were learned from Xsyon's prom night dumpster predecessor... it would be a shame if 6 months down the line tribal warfare was implemented, only to realize it came 6 months too late.

[zettoz]

I think everyone is worrying too much, you could lose almost everything you have in EVE if you take your nice mothership out in the field, same concept basically. As for storage bins being destroyed, nothing is stopping you from hiding them outside of your camp.

[mgilbrtsn]

I think its an established fact that there will be tribal warfare and thus the "Carebears" know its coming. To suggest that they can't handle the competition is simply sad. If anything if a town is conquered (if its gonna be in game), the tribe will probably be in exile and plan for the restoration of its honor.

Its too early to criticize the tribal warfare mechanic, since there is little information and the mechanics are up in the air.

[scambammer]

Xsyon part 2, pronounced *sigh**yawn* part 2, will be subtitled 'The Carebears'.....

[Cambion]

Wow, I just registered and this is one of the most offensive posts I've seen on any gaming forum. Why? It wouldn't be that bad if it was obviously just a child venting anger or frustration. However, when an adult actively tries to make someone else's opinion invalid with his own, I find that disgusting. Do you know why you responded with such venom and hate? It is because you are full of fear. You're scared that this game will get populated with people who enjoy pvp and conquering nations. You are scared that the game won't turn out how you want it to be. So, instead of stating your opinion of why the idea doesn't fit here, you attack the OP by throwing insults. To be honest, I think "your kind", to quote you, are the ones that I'd like to avoid.

And I am amazed that such a drama queen has joined these forumns and wishes to try and belittle others thik the words hypocrit;

The answer here is simple if it takes months to build up infrastructure, that can be destroyed in minutes the game will fail.
THe fun and joy of really developing a charachter in a persistant world is a joy and that is what this game is providing, the hillarious we should be able to kill anywhere any time is just pathetic kiddie talk. And a general aspect displayed by ganking groups who like to roam and destroy. Someone needs to make decisions developed game with community or a pathetic gank fest that will kill the game.

I think I am really going to enjoy building my charachter for 6 months, but after that no one will gain from my time and effort everything i have and own will be destroyed. And I will move on unless the developers realise that they can have open world PvP but it should be paced at the same rate as the development. Not Insta gain.... that not a game just a joke.

[Tehroth]

See it comes down to this. What most people are looking for is a game with a tight nit community and freedom like SWG and Uo. However we want pvp to be very metagame, player skilled oriented with meaning like Darkfall. We don't want darkfall because that game is solely based on pvp, we would like to build and terraform like Wurm online or Minecraft. We want pvp to matter but not be the underlining object in the game. We want to have an impact on the game world with our characters and be able to do things that we enjoy in game.

Whether it be a merchant carrying his wares to the neighboring town on a caravan, or the mercenaries hired to protect his goods, or perhaps the bandits waiting to ambush the caravan and plunder it's loots. Perhaps after being attacked the merchant issues a bounty on the heads of the bandits in a major player trading hub. Or takes a step further and demands aid of the king issuing a warband to wipe out those bandits.

We want things like this in the game, not just a fragfest pvp. We want meaning and other things to do that matter other than pvping. This is why you keep getting core people hoping around from Mo, DFO Earthrise and whatever Indie sandbox games that comes out. We are looking for a great game.